new job but they only have Brocade? wt heck?????

okay here is my story..I resigned my job at the credit union because my last review my boss asked me to be the head of the bank software and I would have to forsake my IT field and I told him NO and I resigned. The credit union is going to merge and since I know alot of the core software, he wanted me to be head of the financial software. I do not want to be a banker. I am an IT guy not a banker. so I got a small severence package.
So now my wife is like what? I tried to explain to her that I can make more money in IT than banking.
so I applied for this job and it is in another state. They love me but they have Brocade routers and switches. YIKES who is brocade? yeah I know now who they are but omg another competitor to Cisco.
time and time again companies come against cisco and they eventually lose. Cisco is the best I feel.
and now i am going to a potential job that has equipment i have no clue how to operate? yeah i read their BCNE manuall and thank God ciso uses lots of open standard concepts they look same but the command set is totally different.
what would you guys do???
i will be at this job senior network admin 1 step below cio and sometime acting cio when my boss is gone? it is a bank of 541 million asset and about 100 employees and only 2 branches. I would like to convince them to go ciso 100 percent what do you think ???? help i dont know the money might be good?
but i have a bad feeling like i would be starting over???

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Comments

Jon_Cisco

I have not even started in a networking career so please don't take this as experience. However I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If you choose to work in their environment and the possibility is changing vendors comes up then maybe you would look at Cisco.

Unless your being brought in because they want to replace what they have which is a totally different situation.

Good Luck

BerkshireHerd

There is probably a reason they use Brocade. Cost, I know you know that Cisco gear is expensive. This sounds like a pretty small bank. I work at a 6.5 billion dollar bank with 93 branches and we still use some extreme switches due to cost.

At my job, if you can't prove switching to another piece of hardware will either save or make money then your not going to get anywhere.

AwesomeGarrett

The protocols stay the same, just implementation changes. You could get a **** sheet at first. The better question is, why does a bank with two branches and only 100 employees need a senior network engineer?

OfWolfAndMan

Even though Cisco may be the most well known in the routing and switching world, there are many others used. Juniper, Brocade, Palo Alto, etc. While the command line may be different, most of the concepts (Aside from certain proprietary protocols i.e. EIGRP) are still the same. They probably are doing it for cost purposes anyway.

Trashman

Brocade Certification Program Overview 2014

Whoop-Whoop!:D

Priston

You work in networking and haven't heard of brocade? You must have been really sheltered.

Your going to have to learn more than just Cisco. Cisco is expensive. Some companies can't justify the cost of cisco products, just like I can't justify the cost of buying a $4000 4K samsung tv.

For small scale environments I'd definitely go with a vendor other than Cisco if it meant saving thousands of dollars. For something large scale, I'd probably have a mix.

xnx

Cisco DOES NOT equal networking.. there are many other vendors around like Arista

itdaddy

the bank I worked for was 125 million assets and had all Cisco and all HP and VMware and Microsoft.

yeah I know there are other brands. I understand open standards just hard to get good at anything if you are jumping around to many brands. I was IT manager and all I bought was Cisco because I is the best and stands the test of time.

If the best use Cisco then you should use Cisco. I saw the L3 POE switches in Brocade and they are comparable to Cisco I think because I purchases Cisco gear. This bank is growing 100 millions assets per year and in 5 years who knows but they their CIO use to be the Senior Network Admin. I know it is going to be challenging job just how many. You don't see any CBTS or training schools and their cert path feels like years ago back when certs started. How long will they be around? Cisco has been tried and tested......just a hard decision when see so many people use Cisco. At least Juniper has some training classes to attend for its certs but all I have ever done is Cisco just sucks to start over...

an yeah I might convince them to go cisco cause how much net gear would they have really for a 1 building with 90 people in it and another branch. Not much gear and I am sure they afford cisco. Well Iwil give it a shot the pay is awesome.

Jackace

Like one of my co-workers once said, "Brocade isn't bad, but the CLI is just different enough from Cisco to piss you off."

Iristheangel

itdaddy wrote: »

If the best use Cisco then you should use Cisco.

I would disregard this line of thinking. Always have a reason to be using something and not just because you want to jump on a bandwagon of what other people are doing.

That being said, there are lots of reasons to use other vendors. As someone stated, cost can be a big factor. If the company isn't that large or their Cisco partner isn't that great, they might not qualify for the larger discounts that would make Cisco cost-competitive. If you're looking for parts in a network that do very very very specific things, it's not necessarily a bad idea to mix and match vendors. Some vendors do things better than others. For example, I think that Checkpoint is a great firewall and when stacked against the ASA's (without Sourcefire integration), they do a LOT more. The con of this is that they're not priced competitively and you're paying out the ear yearly for premium support and licensing. Palo Altos are also great firewalls. Another example, Juniper makes some fast route and switching hardware at a competitive price point. Arista makes great Data Center equipment.

Now for me, I like keeping things pretty standardized hardware-wise if I can. Generally, there can be some support nightmare that come up when you mix and match hardware too much. I've had Brocade-Juniper-Cisco mixed environments and when something went down, I had to have a conference call with support for all three vendors and they were all blaming it on the other while saying they couldn't help because it was the other vendor's hardware that was the issue. In other cases, I've noticed that some vendors don't have as quick of support as Cisco and getting someone on the line could take awhile which really hurts in the event of an outage. Also think about architecture and what direction you're going. That can definitely help shape which vendor you will pick.

J_86

Where I work, we have very few clients that have Cisco gear. The bank I worked at previously was the same way, the only Cisco hardware we had were branch routers all of our switches were HP. Many small and medium sized business just can't justify the cost of Cisco hardware and licensing when comparing other vendors. We do a lot of work with non-profit places and that is generally where we see the most Cisco gear, only because Cisco all but gives it away to them.

I think you are going to have a hard time trying to sell them on going with all Cisco hardware if what they are using now is working just fine. Bankers, from my experience, are some of the hardest people to get to spend money on anything IT related.

itdaddy

I had to have a conference call with support for all three vendors and they were all blaming it on the other while saying they couldn't help because it was the other vendor's hardware that was the issue.

\

this is the very reason I love cisco. I have seen this in real world...it stream lines your network when you stay consistent.
cisco is the best...been around longer than anyone...command line is awesome. and great training on it. I have seen prices on Brocade and Cisco both. and not much difference so I would argue that training on Cisco is plenty but brocade sucks!
PDFs vs full blown schools that teach cisco...when I was IT Manager I purchased nothing but cisco, hp, vmare, and Microsoft and all great compared to so called competitor call me close minded or old fashion but the above statement and the CLI madness is my opinion on zebra branded crap compared to Cisco...just sucks no future in Brocade. if you look at cisco they teach their stuffword wide and people can support it..look at training for brocade NOTHING! but pdf haahhahah a joke....I think I will tattoo cisco on my butt hahahhahahhah

itdaddy

I would disregard this line of thinking. Always have a reason to be using something and not just because you want to jump on a bandwagon of what other people are doing

my reason is they are the best, effective and logical to use and been around a lot longer than any infant competitor and I have purchased them and their warranty and very similar to the zebra companies...it would be nice to have nicer command line I brocade and training but just a bunch o pdfs...huh??????????

Jackace

J_86 wrote: »

Many small and medium sized business just can't justify the cost of Cisco hardware and licensing when comparing other vendors. We do a lot of work with non-profit places and that is generally where we see the most Cisco gear, only because Cisco all but gives it away to them.

I don't understand why Cisco does this sort of thing. List price for their gear is stupid high. Where I work we use a lot of Cisco gear so we get a HUGE discount. (I can't disclose how big a discount, but I can say we order direct from Cisco) We have compared all the vendors to our Cisco costs and Cisco is always cheapest or very close so it never made any sense to change. Why Cisco charges smaller shops so much more for their gear just doesn't make sense to me.

Jackace

itdaddy wrote: »

my reason is they are the best, effective and logical to use and been around a lot longer than any infant competitor and I have purchased them and their warranty and very similar to the zebra companies...it would be nice to have nicer command line I brocade and training but just a bunch o pdfs...huh??????????

I really like Cisco gear myself, but I have also seen Juniper and Brocade and they both have a very solid products. Sure it might have some quirks and issues, but guess what so does the Cisco gear. I have also seen the costs Cisco wants to charge some of these smaller shops which helped me understand why they decided not to go with Cisco.

itdaddy

have you seen command line of brocade? omg yuke! I worked at a 120 million asset company and they bought or I bought all cisco gear and the command line is and has always been clean and organized..i mean look at this blog do you see any brocade people on here? NOPE..cause inside we all know why cisco certs are the best, they provide the best training.
have you seen the brocade training? none!!!!!!!!! sure the hardware might work but at what cost in the long run?

Iristheangel

I have seen the CLI for Brocade. It's not my favorite but I can get around it. BTW, Brocade was founded in 1995. They've been around for quite awhile and they will be around for a lot longer. They have a huge SAN switching footprint out there and I think they've started delving into SDN. I would recommend to take this opportunity to cert up on Brocade and learn a bit more about it. These days in networking, you can't just learn one vendor and have "convert it all to Cisco!" be you design plan in every job. It's not going to always be plausible depending on the environment and it shows diversity to know different vendors and technologies. There are quite a few Brocade certified guys around here.

As far as Brocade training, there's a few classes out there:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1FWBA_enUS569US569&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Brocade%20Training

I'm definitely a huge fan of Cisco over the competition for many many many reasons but I won't say they're the best at everything period.

jibbajabba

Most Financial companies I know use neither. They use Arista ...

shauncarter1

I haven't read all the responses here, but Brocade is awesome man! We actually just moved our god awful 3Com gear to Brocade a few years ago and couldn't be happier. They are actually new the networking game by name. They used to reside in the SAN space only, but acquired a small company called Foundry and just rebranded their gear. If you know Cisco you will find the syntax and features including CDP to be pretty much the same. Don't get scared off by Brocade.

BerkshireHerd

Sounds like the choice is easy, take the job or don't.

jibbajabba

itdaddy wrote: »

but i have a bad feeling like i would be starting over???

That is how it feels like every time a new vSphere version is released.

I suppose it depends what you want - if you want an easy job using only what you know then I guess don't take the job. If you like challenges and don't mind learning new stuff, take it .. .

I certainly wouldn't decline an offer because they use Supermicro Blade systems for their vSphere infrastructure rather than HP ..

Kinet1c

I think you need to be realistic here, they're not going to just change network vendor at a whim. This company has invested time & money, quite a lot for both I'd imagine, in setting up the current network.

is there currently anything wrong with the network?

Does your unfamiliarity or dislike with Brocade warrant decommissioning all of the existing network gear?

From your posts, I'm guessing the answer to those is no to both. Suck it up.

it_consultant

jibbajabba wrote: »

Most Financial companies I know use neither. They use Arista ...

The more I learn about Arista, the more I like them, though I have never used their switches in the wild. I hope they release a TRILL or SPB based fabric soon but for what they are (ultra low latency low cost switches) I would say they are hard to beat...and I am the resident Brocade fanboy.

The main problem with Brocade's CLI (and this is something I have been loud about with our reps) is that whenever Foundry got into this game they used a different CLI for their corporate stuff than they do for their carrier based products. A Netiron router is different than a FCX switch running the premium routing image and that is stupid. Since they released version 8 of their software, they combined the CLI structure so now they are just about the same.

jleydon82

I've worked at many locations with different networking equipment. Juniper, Cisco, Brocade, Sonicwall, Zywall, Watchguard, Netgear, etc.

Some stuck with 1 company for firewall/router/switch some were a mix. I've been in that position to say hey we should standardized and go with "insert product here" which I am infinitely more familiar with. I have also worked for people who came in and said oh man this place needs to be upgraded and bought all new equipment.

I won't argue that Cisco is a great company with great products. I started down the Cisco path when I got my CCNA and then went to a smaller company and had to decide what to do. They had 400+ users and needed new network equipment. But after learning other products and reviewing network usage I found that maybe Cisco wasn't the answer. I went with other products and for that environment it worked great. Would Cisco have worked great? Absolutely if configured correctly.

A lot of times it comes down to being able to understand the technology and configuring it correctly. My advice is to try not tp spend any money the first few months if possible. Take that time to learn the environment. Run tests on the network to find where the bottlenecks are and find the weaknesses. Then you will have the correct information to see what should be replaced and when.

My worst nightmare would be to go some place and have them spend $X and when it is all said and done, everything performs exactly the same and nothing was improved.

broli720

If this was such a big problem for you then why did you take the job???

geek4god

Don't get caught up in vendors. You need to focus on solutions. There are lots of reason to use Cisco and there are just as many reasons not to. They are NOT the best in every situation and they are not the best at every price point. I would also argue you are more valuable to an organization knowing more than one vendor. It proves to them you are someone that can adapt and learn new technologies.

The bigger issue is the job. The banking world is changing, smaller banks are looking to merge or be bought! The regulatory costs are just too much for most small banks, let alone the expertise needed to keep up. I work at one of the Banks that is taking advantage of this and is buying up smaller banks. It rarely goes well for the IT staff of the bank we buy. Especially the smaller ones.

it_consultant

You don't see too many people with Mitel certifications on these boards.

geek4god

it_consultant wrote: »

You don't see too many people with Mitel certifications on these boards.

Very true, I worked for a Mitel exclusive vendor for a couple years.

N2IT

xnx wrote: »

Cisco DOES NOT equal networking.. there are many other vendors around like Arista

Short but sweet!

If the environment is good and the pay is equal might as well.

Of course I am not picky, I'm passed the go getter attitude. I want stability (some) and a no hostile work environment

linuxlover

In our company we use Brocade and Dell mostly (good support contract) and only some Cisco.