Well it appears im going to be laid off.

Last year I posted a thread about taking a job working at Cisco Systems. Well the job has been great so far as a contractor, I found out today there is on going talks within upper management about letting me go to hire two people from India at the same salary. The writing is on the wall I guess. Anyone know of anyone hiring in the Raleigh, NC area?

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shodown

Cisco is doing some aggressive hiring for there NCE positions for some massive projects. These positions will not be going to india due to regulation and security clearances. Maybe you can look around on cisco internal to see if you are a fit for them.

FloOz

Are these new hires being paid at your combined salary? Like shodown mentioned, is there any options to be brought on as a full-time employee in another group. I know the NCE positions are pretty competitive due to Cisco wanting them all to have CCIEs.

Blackout

They would be new hires as far as I can tell, and yes it would be at my combined salary. NCE wouldn't be an option as I don't have enough experience.

N2IT

First off I am sorry to hear about that, especially working for Cisco. But this is the reason I got out of IT. I couldn't get on with a top company in my area in IT if my life depended on. I transitioned to the business side and within 1 year I was hired on and at a much higher rate.

It seems if the business is making money your department if fine, if it's not, there is writing on the wall. However in IT it's not like that, it comes down to an intiative and then boom you are out. At least that has been my experience.

IIIMaster

Thats bad, they could at the least requested you to take a pay cut. I have heard stories like this numerous times. Cheap labor isnt always the best labor.

Blackout

No pay cut. I only found out about it because one of the blues on my team thought I should know. If he hadn't told me I would have been cut the day of.

zxbane

Sorry to hear that, I hope you can find something else soon. The IT market doesn't seem too shabby down in NC Raleigh area, continue working on your education/certs too so that you stand out among your peers.

IIIMaster

Blackout wrote: »

No pay cut. I only found out about it because one of the blues on my team thought I should know. If he hadn't told me I would have been cut the day of.

Man I dont how an enployeer can look another employee in eye knowing they will fire you and hire somsomeone else in your place, just to save some money. I bet they going to pay for those guys trip to the states too.

jeremywatts2005

This is happening a lot lately. A lot of companies have entire departments staffed with folks from India. It poses huge communcation issues. Also nepotism within companies that are hiring a lot of Indians is rampid. They hire an Indian for management and he hires more of his friends. Really bad and then you have Americans applying like crazy to even get a shot and the companies are bringing them over by the plane load. Oh and it is going to get worse Obama just extended business and tourist visas to 10 yrs for Chinese. More immigration fun to come for us in IT.

MSP-IT

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

This is happening a lot lately. A lot of companies have entire departments staffed with folks from India. It poses huge communcation issues. Also nepotism within companies that are hiring a lot of Indians is rampid. They hire an Indian for management and he hires more of his friends. Really bad and then you have Americans applying like crazy to even get a shot and the companies are bringing them over by the plane load. Oh and it is going to get worse Obama just extended business and tourist visas to 10 yrs for Chinese. More immigration fun to come for us in IT.

While I'm generally open to the idea of an open job market, I've seen that it doesn't necessarily benefit the workplace as a whole to hire like this. It yes, causes a breakdown in communication, creates tension for existing employees who are concerned about their jobs, and introduces racial compartmentalization. I'm not sure about your organization, but it's not often that these sponsored employees interact directly with native co-workers. They tend to stay together as a group and don't socialize outside of it. Valuing an open and cooperative workplace, this is seen as a stumbling block for me.

jeremywatts2005

Indian groups especially tend to group together. I worked with employers in the past that hired an Indian manager. The next thing you know we are interviewing all Indian candidates for jobs. Most of whom struggled with the language. It got even worse when an emergency arose no one knew what was going on or what to do. If you were not Indian you could not understand them and they could not understand you. It was a nightmare. That is the reason I left the place. It was crazy you get on a call and there are 12 Indians and two native English speaking people. Nothing got done and everyone was confused.

Blackout

I don't dislike people from India, my biggest issue I have had with them is that they seem to be paper tiger guys, they have all the certs with none of the knowledge, some of them are awesome here at Cisco. The Problem with my role here at Cisco is that its completely specialized, and people need to be trained from the ground up int he role, I have been here for 1 year and 3 months and im just now getting to a point where my team trusts me with the environment. My Senior Admin was pissed when I told him, he finally had someone he could rely on, so he could go on PTO.

Iristheangel

@Blackout - That sucks about the layoff. I'm really sorry

As far as people from India, I don't have a problem with any of them and I don't mind the H1Bs coming over here. My only issue is the paper tigers as Blackout stated. I think everyone can tell the difference between a real CCIE and an "India CCIE"

tkerber

I have no problem with people from India as well and some of my good friends are from India. I would agree with the fact that a lot of them are 'paper tigers'.. The only problem I have with them is when they work for peanuts and drive the rest of our wages down..

When I worked Desktop Support at the end of our contract we had to start training guys from a company called HCL. HCL is a a very large Indian company that does a lot of outsourcing and let me tell you---they're terrible. Their certified Avaya and Cisco 'Engineers' were a joke. As a Desktop Support tech who was studying network administration, I trained two of them how to use the Windows commands in the command line and how to remote desktop to a server, etc... Their English was treacherous (at best) which made it fun when they had to answer to frustrated users on-site. They also openly complained about how awesome their salaries until they got here and realized that $17 an hour isn't exactly 'living the dream'.

Eventually the company that our team worked for realized that these guys (HCL) were so unprepared and so poorly trained that they fired them all after a year and terminated the contract and gave it back to the company I worked for (Compucom). By that time I was long gone but I still kept in touch with those guys and have heard other horror stories of outsourcing companies from them. TaTa is another big one that a good friend of mine has worked with and has some pretty sad stories regarding their 'Technicians' and 'Engineers'.. You get what you pay for and if it's a $17 an hour CCNP then that's your fault!

Nersesian

At a macro level, the issue of unqualified H1B1s is a bit of a self correcting issue. Its unfortunate the issue will correct itself at the expense of tenured and arguably equally qualified candidates. Like others have said, I don't have an issue with Indians as a national identity or culture. I do have a bit of an issue with accents so thick I have to request the speaker repeat themselves so I can understand them, but that isn't isolated to Indians. This of course introduces a host of problems when working with issues of a technical nature.

If your company is hiring $17 an hour CCNPs, I would questions where your company's priorities are. I have this mental picture of an HR dude bro sitting at his desk high-fiving himself over this sweet deal he just brokered.

joelsfood

ha, I've worked with HCL too. They're definitely not all bad, but the ones who aren't get hired away. Former employer worked with HCL, and they actually helped the best guy get citizenship here, and then brought the rest of the work back inhouse (along with him)

tkerber

joelsfood wrote: »

ha, I've worked with HCL too. They're definitely not all bad, but the ones who aren't get hired away. Former employer worked with HCL, and they actually helped the best guy get citizenship here, and then brought the rest of the work back inhouse (along with him)

Yeah every bunch has it's bad apples. That whole migration in general just went south real fast, and as I said--I left long before that happened. For your story where the guy got citizenship, I think that's awesome. I just don't like the fact that a lot of these temporary workers come to the US and work for sub-par wages, driving our wages down. Then they leave, go back to India (or where ever they're located) and bring all the knowledge, skills, and money they've earned with them.

tpatt100

From what I have read online most of the brain **** come from over seas, plenty of stories from India and elsewhere, where you can pay extra and somebody sits behind you and points to the correct answers. It seems every IT forum I go to has the occasional "You get me answers?" posts in bad English from posters who barely have more than 1-2 posts.....

Basenji

Blackout wrote: »

Last year I posted a thread about taking a job working at Cisco Systems. Well the job has been great so far as a contractor, I found out today there is on going talks within upper management about letting me go to hire two people from India at the same salary. The writing is on the wall I guess. Anyone know of anyone hiring in the Raleigh, NC area?

Sorry to hear this. I graduated from college back in June. I have had 8 interviews so far and have yet to encounter an American born citizen once I get past HR during the interview process. I have gotten the feeling on a few of those interviews that a process was being followed (which is why I was being brought in) but in the end a foreigner was going to be granted a visa for the job. I am no HR expert by any means, but perhaps they have to show they are trying before being granted an approval to extend an H1b to a colleague from their country of origin.

daviddws

N2IT wrote: »

But this is the reason I got out of IT. I transitioned to the business side and within 1 year I was hired on and at a much higher rate.

If you dont mind me asking N2IT, how did you transition out of IT. I went for my MBA knowing that in the future I may have to leave my favorite type of work. I'm ok now, but it's always in the back of my mind.

Blackout

Well It appears I landed another Job back at Cisco in the TAC. Thanks for all the well wishes and support.

coffeeluvr

Congrats!! Glad things worked out for you.

Adam B

Blackout wrote: »

Well It appears I landed another Job back at Cisco in the TAC. Thanks for all the well wishes and support.

That's awesome man!

yeah yeah

Blackout wrote: »

Well It appears I landed another Job back at Cisco in the TAC. Thanks for all the well wishes and support.

Congrats. Perfect timing as well. Hiring starts to ramp down until after the New Year.

joelsfood

Congrats, Blackout! Now ship out my new vic1240 for my blade in Denver.

Snow.bros

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

Also nepotism within companies that are hiring a lot of Indians is rampid. They hire an Indian for management and he hires more of his friends.

This is also common here in South Africa, though it's not necessarily people coming from India but most South African Indians who are in management/HR hire their family members and friends ( it's not only them, there are a few others as well but it's very common with them) and you find out some of them most the time aren't qualified for the job and this has been the case for many years in this part of the world, this is one of the reason I am not fond of the idea of "It's all about who you know" type of situation, it's killing the job market IMO because the guy who works hard and valuable always gets kicked out which one of things that's wrong with my country these days. These issues also condone brain dumping, people will start developing the mentality of "why work hard for it if there are easier alternatives ways to achieve it".

Ryan82

Congrats homie!