MS 70-410 Installing and Configuring Windows Server 2012 or CCNET/CCNA???

sferg410

I am 38, computer literate but no work experience. I have CompTIA A+ and am in the UK trying to get an IT Job. I am wondering what I should do next.. Was going to do Network+ but decided it is a waste of time and money and would be far better of working towards my Cisco CCENT/CCNA R/S. However, I am looking for a job and a lot of the more entry level jobs are helpdesk and they all want you to know about server and active directory etc..

So my question is, should I maybe study for the MS 70-410 first so I can get a job as I will have knowledge of server and AD or should I just push on with CCENT/CCNA?

I have a copy of Server 2012 R2, but I have never used server, so I would be learning it from scratch, how long would it take to learn enough to pass exam if you could study 5 hours a day, 5 days a week?

In the long term, I would like to work networking and work with hardware and cables etc.. rather than sit at a computer all day configuring things.
Thanks
Stewart

markulous

I think you're getting ahead of yourself a bit here. The N+ isn't a waste of time, it's a very nice beginner cert and that gives you a decent foundation of networking knowledge. The N+ (at least in the US) can help you get a job while you work on higher level certs.

For the debate between getting Server 2012 or the CCNA, it all depends what you want to do, which seems to be networking rather than systems. So go for the CCNA in the long run. You don't need a MCSA to get an entry-level job. Knowledge of AD, yes, but you can do that from home with your copy of 2012. Just find a resource (book or website or YouTube) that walks you through the basics of setting it up.

sferg410

So surely if I am going to learn about AD and Server from book/vids etc at home so I know the basics and seems to be a requirement over here in the UK for IT jobs... It would be worth doing the exam also so it is on my CV and makes me more employable for a first position?

Yes I would like to do networking in the long term, but have to get my foot in the door and if Server helpdesk stuff gets me started in IT employment, then I am thinking it must be the right way to go. Just get the one MS Server cert to help find a job and then work on CCENT/CCNA...????

Agree/disagree???

markulous

Disagree.

There's a lot to learn to get your MSCA. It's overkill just to get an entry-level IT job. Work on getting your N+ and with the A+ also, that should be enough to get your foot in the door somewhere if you have a decent looking resume. Maybe it's different over there, but I can't see an entry-level job requiring a MSCA. Unlikely you'll do more in AD outside of user creation and password resets for your first job no matter what. I wouldn't trust someone on a server doing anymore than that if they didn't have experience.

sferg410

i didn't say MCSA, i just said 70-410, 1 exam, not 3..

Krusader

You could do the 70-640 https://www.microsoft.com/learning/en-in/exam-70-640.aspx
Yo will gain the MCTS:Server 2008 Active Directory,Configuring cert upon passing the test
[h=2][/h]

sferg410

Thanks for that info, but wouldn't getting a cert for 2008 be a bit backwards seeing that we now have 2012 R2.. and the 640 exam doesn't actually count toward the Server 2012 MCSA or MCSE...??????

Krusader

sferg410 wrote: »

Thanks for that info, but wouldn't getting a cert for 2008 be a bit backwards seeing that we now have 2012 R2.. and the 640 exam doesn't actually count toward the Server 2012 MCSA or MCSE...??????

Well you wanted to show employers you have AD experience. A cert in AD will show that plus most companies would still be using 2008 DCs

xnx

N+ is a waste of money in the UK, most employers won't have heard of it.

Experience + CCNA is the way to go

sferg410

xnx wrote: »

N+ is a waste of money in the UK, most employers won't have heard of it.

Experience + CCNA is the way to go

you dont think it is worth getting 1 MS cert on server first to show i know a bit about it, so i can find a job?
having trouble even getting an interview at the moment and how do i get experience if i can't get a job?

CJWelch89

First off xnx is wrong, that's his opinion not fact, the N+ helped land me my job, in fact I've been told having my certs were mainly the reasons I got a second look.

Secondly, you're going for a helpdesk job, you're not going to be going *anywhere near* servers at this level, so forget the server stuff.

A good starting point for you would be to gain the N+ and head toward the 70-680, it covers everything you're likely to do Window's side on the helpdesk and also touches on AD.

sferg410

I am not sure why you are suggesting a Windows 7 exam, I have installed it a hundred times and dont really need a cert to prove it. Surely the 70-410 would fill in a gap - not knowing anything about server - and if i have a cert for that then win 7 is obviously not going to be a problem.
I am not looking for specifically for a helpdesk job although I realise that is probably the most likely start point. If I do get a helpdesk position, I will not be looking for one that deals with the general public and general setting up of computers, getting them working. My head would explode if i had to spend all day everyday telling people who dont have a clue things like you have it plugged in the wrong socket... or there is a main power switch on the back also!!!!

sthomas

I am no expert on the UK job market but I have heard several times that the CompTIA certifications don't hold much weight there. Usually it is recommended to study for certifications that you have interest in but at the end of the day it is only beneficial to get a certification that employers in your area are asking for. With that being said I think if you have some interest in Windows Server and it will help you get a job I would go for it. I would also recommend working on the MCSA 2012 even if you are trying to get an entry level position.

Also, the same thing applies to the CCNA. If it will help you get the position you want I would say go for it. But since you live in the UK I would skip the Net+.

CJWelch89

Honestly, forget the server exams for now, without any experience nobody is going to let you near a server.

Win 7 certs are your best bet for now, deploying Win 7 to networked machines at a large company is not at all the same as it is installing them on your home PC, the cert covers much more than that.

Reality check, helpdesk is where the majority of us have started, it's almost a rite of passage. Use the time at the helpdesk to learn how to get the technical information you need out of people who are not at all technical and in the mean-time study up on more advanced topics.

sferg410

I totally get your point about windows deployment, however I think the chances of a first job being at a large or bigger company is slim, also I have never seen a job ad asking or desiring Windows X certification, just ads asking for server certs even for entry level positions.
I think I am going to go with the 70-410 next as I have the CBT Nuggets, MS Press book and a copy of Server 2012 R2, also I dont think it will take to long to achieve where as the CCENT/CCNA might take me a bit of time, so I will follow up with that.
I really dont think it is worth paying the high cost for the Network+ cert here in the UK. Read a guide, watch a series of vids, sure, but pay £200 for the one exam, I just dont feel it will be worth it.

kriscamaro68

sferg410 wrote: »

I am not sure why you are suggesting a Windows 7 exam, I have installed it a hundred times and dont really need a cert to prove it. Surely the 70-410 would fill in a gap - not knowing anything about server - and if i have a cert for that then win 7 is obviously not going to be a problem.
I am not looking for specifically for a helpdesk job although I realise that is probably the most likely start point. If I do get a helpdesk position, I will not be looking for one that deals with the general public and general setting up of computers, getting them working. My head would explode if i had to spend all day everyday telling people who dont have a clue things like you have it plugged in the wrong socket... or there is a main power switch on the back also!!!!

The Win 7 cert isn't about installing Win 7 100 times. I bet if you would walk in and try to take that exam you would fail epically at it. People who install Win 7 think that these client exams are always going to be a cake walk. Do you know the ins and outs of local policy for Win 7? Do you know what policies you can configure in secpol.msc. Do you even know what secpol.msc is? Do you know what and where the cert store is and how to set certs up in it? Do you know Dism? ImageX? Do you know what ZTI is? MDT? WDS? Dart? APP-V? Have you used any of the things I mentioned in a Domain environment? That's only just some of the things covered in the 70-680 exam. If you don't know what these things are then you should maybe rethink your attitude on the Win 7 cert.

sferg410

Well someone is a little upset!!!
Yes I do know about local policy, security policy, MS Deployment Toolkit, Windows Deployment Service.. but no I do not know the ins and out as It is not where my interest lies. I have simply been asking if i should go with networking stuff which I clearly stated at the start is where i would ideally like to end up, or should i get some basic server stuff, so i can get the career started. I did not ask for an argument... Trying to sound clever by throwing out a load of abbreviations is just not clever.
As I said, I am interested in Networking long term, hardware, from looking at the MCSE for Windows 7 it seems it is considerably more in depth with admin and config that i think i would need to know for the type of position i would like. I am not looking to be the IT guy doing local and security policy in-depth, i am looking to be the network guy plugging in the cables and installing a new switch.

D113

sferg410 wrote: »

Well someone is a little upset!!!
I did not ask for an argument... Trying to sound clever by throwing out a load of abbreviations is just not clever.

I would say that insisting you don't need to take a Windows 7 exam because you have installed the OS is not clever.

sferg410

Actually I said that i didn't feel that a windows 7 exam would be right for me and the direction I would like to go in, i never said anything about not needing to take it (because i know it all....). I was questioning why the suggestion of win 7 certs when i have clearly said my interest is networking and that all the UK job ads ask for at least basic server and active directory knowledge.

Please do not twist my words.

MeanDrunkR2D2

Chances are, without any experience in IT, even having the 70-410 won't help you land that first IT job. If networking really is your goal, go for the ccent/ccna as that will get you to where you want to be. Now, if employers are asking for the windows server certifications and requiring it for a network job, it's not quite what you may have in mind and may just be a "wishlist" that they would like someone with experience to have. Now, for your goal and career direction, you should really look at NOC type jobs and see what they are asking for.

The window 7 certs aren't a waste of time and honestly can and will help you be a more rounded IT professional in the long term. Windows 7 is everywhere in the corporate world today and for an entry level position in a helpdesk/desktop type of environment it can help you out immensely. There is a lot to those certifications that many overlook and end up failing those exams because they thought since they use Windows 7 everyday and have installed it a hundred times that they know everything that they need to know, and they fail spectacularly.

But if your goal is network side, focus on the ccent then the ccna. That will help you get to your goal faster than a server cert would.

MeanDrunkR2D2

sferg410 wrote: »

Actually I said that i didn't feel that a windows 7 exam would be right for me and the direction I would like to go in, i never said anything about not needing to take it (because i know it all....). I was questioning why the suggestion of win 7 certs when i have clearly said my interest is networking and that all the UK job ads ask for at least basic server and active directory knowledge.

Please do not twist my words.

I understand what you are saying, and with your goal being networking, I think that the MS certs are a waste of time and money. AD is something that you can learn on your own without taking the exam. Use TechNet to set up labs working with AD and all the processes involved. Being able to convey that knowledge of what you have learned on your own will be as useful in the path you want to go. If they ask you the technical questions involved in AD, and whatnot, and you can answer them, and then show them your CCNA, it will help you far more. Don't delay in the CCNA because it won't be an easy or quick cert and if you can use the time that you have free, you could have your ccent within a couple of months of studying/labbing and then work after that for your CCNA. The CCENT will show them that you are learning and your focus is on the network side.

sferg410

OK. Plenty to think about and consider there, thanks a lot.