FAILED again, Now what?

ericrrr

Hi,

I got a 695 last week on my second attempt after about 5 months of aggressive study. I admit, the first attempt back in April was my fault; I panicked when I heard the test was changing, so I crammed for a week and took the test and failed with a 672.

The real test (BY FAR) had the hardest questions I had ever seen (yes, more so than the pre-april 15 version of the test). What do I mean by hard? vagueness, nebulous, language complexity, hard to pinpoint what the question was asking, no easy questions (i.e. What OSI layer does protocol x reside in? or which attack does x..), Written very deliberately to stop people from using memorization (i.e. list the steps in x), Brain Fatigue, and lastly, the questions were written to draw from experience.

Within the last 4-5 months I did around 10,000 practice questions in total. By the end, I could do any 50 question random test and get a 80%+ score. The practice question came from cccure, and from the books below:

McGraw Hill (Moderate) great questions
CCCure (easy) good base.
Transender 2015 (easy)
AIO 6th (moderate)
Dummies (easy)
Sybex 7th (easy) good questions
CBK 4th (hard) <--- although people say this book is junk (and I agree) if you want to get used to seeing hard questions do about 250 practice questions from this book and see if you can score over 70%.


Every practice question I got wrong, I created an electronic flash card.In hindsight, I should have hand written the flash cards. (why? look into spacial memory)

on top of this I did two separate full 250q practice tests to test my endurance. The tests took around 3 hours 30 min. I got a 86% and 87% respectively. The real exam on the other hand, killed me. My brain was dead half way through the test. I took the whole 6 hours, every question required deciphering. People that brag about doing this test in two hours (like my boss) must have super human powers.

My Strategy:

What to do now? Well, this is where I am open to suggestions.

1. Since I have to wait 3 months for my third attempt, I am planning on reading Sybex cover to cover.
2. Keep doing practice questions, more flash cards
3. Get at least 9 hours of sleep the night before the test and don't study the night before. MY Biggest mistake (in hindsight); I got 5 hours of sleep the night before, so my brain was dead the next morning during the test
4. ...????

Thanks!

Side note: so, I already know about the mindset of, "Think like a Manager". Although this is true, this term is way over used when giving a CISSP candidate advise. As if to say, when you're stuck on a questions, just look at the answer and pick the one that a manager would. I felt like ISC2 was too cleaver in writing questions for obvious tips and tricks like this to be effective. To be clear I do agree with this mindset for this test, I just don't think it's as helpful as people make it seem. I think the advise of eliminate the wrong answers first is more effective.

NotHackingYou

Can you elaborate on your aggressive study? I see what you did with practice questions, but what else? I would read the Conrad and Sybex cover to cover, twice, while taking notes.

gespenstern

ericrrr wrote: »

Side note: so, I already know about the mindset of, "Think like a Manager". Although this is true, this term is way over used when giving a CISSP candidate advise.

I always keep saying here that this mantra doesn't lead anywhere.

It holds some truth in it as some security hotshots tend to implement total security approach that costs a fortune and prohibit users from doing anything meaningful to conduct business. You totally have to understand that implementing security controls shouldn't cost more than the asset protected and shouldn't cripple the business. But other than that -- there's nothing behind this mantra and implementing it mindlessly results in failed exams.

The reason why it's so popular is because majority of CISSP wannabes come from technical background and while knowing technical details about ciphers and protocols is easy for them, stuff like BCP blows their mind.

However, if you look at CISSP domains you'll find that it is more technical than managerial. So you'd better not overlook teh tech side of the exam cause it will bite you back if you do so.

havoc64

I'd say work on your test taking, for example, when I took the exam, it took me 4 Hours and 44 minutes to complete. For each question I read the answers first. Then read the question. Then read the question again and used my finger to point out the Adverbs and Adjectives. Then looked at the answers again. I first eliminated the obvious answers that did not match the Adverbs or Adjectives. Then made an educated Selection of the remaining answers. If I wasn't 75% sure of my selection, I flagged the question.

After my first pass, I took a break, went to the restroom, drank a bottle of water and ate a granola bar. Then I reviewed my flagged questions, about 50 of them. I actually changed 11 of the answers, but only changed them if I was 100%. Those that I changed I either selected wrong the first time or the answers were identified by other questions in the exam.

When I read the answers without reading the question, it forces me to look at all four answers. Sometime when we test we read the question and then start looking at the answers. When our mind sees an answer that is close to correct, it picks it and we "Sometimes" pick that answer without looking at the remaining choices. With some exams, there are two or more right answers, and one has to choose the BEST of those. The Air Force enlisted promotion testing was like this and that is where I picked up the habit of reading the answers first and then identifying the description / defining words in the question.

Also it seems to me that we can read the questions too fast and miss those defining and/or descriptive words. The adverb and adjectives are those type of words. It's like back in middle school when we had to diagram sentences. Diagram the Noun, Verb, Adverb, Adjectives and Pronouns.

For me, I read the answers, and then read the question...my mind screams out the Adjectives and/or Adverbs that apply to one or two of the answers. I put my Finger on that word and leave it there. I finish reading the question again and look at the answers. I get rid of the answers that do not work for that adjective and that narrows down the possible answers.

It really helped me with several of the questions. It also helps me slow down and not speed trough them. Normally I am the first or second person finished with exams. I was the second person out of 20 or so this time. Did I feel I passed the exam after I submitted it? I can't say for sure as I was light headed and exhausted.

fitzlopez

Seems the new exam is harder I tried my exam about a month before the 2015 change, lucky I passed then. I used the 11th hour Eric Conrad Book, Shon Harris and the CBK (just one read). I ripped the Audio of the Shon Harris videos and heard it on my car commute every day I really think this was the best study time. When I got a practice exam question wrong I noted it and went later went back to the book to see why was it, and answered them again. After when I heard the audios I could relate my wrong answer to the audio.

In the real test I answered the exam in about 4 hours took a break and did another pass with the 2 remaining hours.

Good luck,

nothing007

Ericrr, Can you post how much % you scored last 3 time...because we can narrow down the area you need to focus...

GemokSPX

havoc64 wrote: »

I'd say work on your test taking, for example, when I took the exam, it took me 4 Hours and 44 minutes to complete. For each question I read the answers first. Then read the question. Then read the question again and used my finger to point out the Adverbs and Adjectives. Then looked at the answers again. I first eliminated the obvious answers that did not match the Adverbs or Adjectives. Then made an educated Selection of the remaining answers. If I wasn't 75% sure of my selection, I flagged the question.

After my first pass, I took a break, went to the restroom, drank a bottle of water and ate a granola bar. Then I reviewed my flagged questions, about 50 of them. I actually changed 11 of the answers, but only changed them if I was 100%. Those that I changed I either selected wrong the first time or the answers were identified by other questions in the exam.

When I read the answers without reading the question, it forces me to look at all four answers. Sometime when we test we read the question and then start looking at the answers. When our mind sees an answer that is close to correct, it picks it and we "Sometimes" pick that answer without looking at the remaining choices. With some exams, there are two or more right answers, and one has to choose the BEST of those. The Air Force enlisted promotion testing was like this and that is where I picked up the habit of reading the answers first and then identifying the description / defining words in the question.

Also it seems to me that we can read the questions too fast and miss those defining and/or descriptive words. The adverb and adjectives are those type of words. It's like back in middle school when we had to diagram sentences. Diagram the Noun, Verb, Adverb, Adjectives and Pronouns.

For me, I read the answers, and then read the question...my mind screams out the Adjectives and/or Adverbs that apply to one or two of the answers. I put my Finger on that word and leave it there. I finish reading the question again and look at the answers. I get rid of the answers that do not work for that adjective and that narrows down the possible answers.

It really helped me with several of the questions. It also helps me slow down and not speed trough them. Normally I am the first or second person finished with exams. I was the second person out of 20 or so this time. Did I feel I passed the exam after I submitted it? I can't say for sure as I was light headed and exhausted.

Able to provide us some example of question on using Adjectives and/or Adverbs techniques?

CyberSecurity

A good test strategy I used was to write on the scratch sheet of paper the answer letters vertically and as you choose an answer put a tally mark next to the letter. Most computer generated tests use an equal percentage of answers.
A - 25% of the answers
B - 25% of the answers
C - 25% of the answers
D - 25% of the answers

So as you take the exam, tally-mark each answer and bookmark-skip any you don't know. Once you go through all the questions and have a good number of tally's you go back to the bookmarked ones and see where you lack in answer percentages.Now I know the CISSP isn't this easy with the drag-and-drops and other types of questions, but it should help out if you can generally apply it.

This is the strategy I used, with an additional strategy where in each question that seemed to complicated, I opened the digital notepad and typed my answer justification which helped me clarify why I chose the answer I did. I even ended up realizing I chose some wrong answers and fixed it. Sometimes writing out a justification makes one realize the initial concept in your mind wasn't right.

ericrrr

sure, by aggressive study i mean, every night for 2 - 4 hours. this included primarily doing practice questions, reading, watching videos, etc. I did not read any of the book cover to cover, I used the books purely for resources. I took notes (hand writen) when listening to cybrary, but I primarily made e-flash cards for subjects, topics, and questions i got wrong. (lots of flash cards).

havoc64

GemokSPX wrote: »

Able to provide us some example of question on using Adjectives and/or Adverbs techniques?

For example,

Which of the following Physical Security Controls Best Protects the Exterior of a Facility?
a. Fencing, Lighting, Surveillance Cameras
b. Lighting, HVAC Over Pressure, Smartcards
c. Access Cards, Background Checks, Security Awareness Training
d. Background Checks, Company Acceptable Use Policy, Guard Dogs

In the question above, I have underlined and made bold the descriptive words that give you what you are looking for. First there's Physical Controls. Looking at the answers get rid of anything that's not a Physical Control, Then look at Best, and Exterior.

So, using Physical and Exterior you can rule our "B" because, Over Pressure is for the building, not exterior. "C" is eliminated because background checks are an Administrative Control as is "D" because of Acceptable Use Policy, another Administrative Control.

That leave "A" as the only one with all of the options being Exterior and Physical Controls.

ericrrr

Havoc 64,

Yes, I have heard this advice in the past. Can you please provide an example or demonstrate the utilizing adverbs and adjectives to narrow down the answer? I am very interested in learning this technique.

I admit my English skills are probably average, which didn't help, but I have noticed that people that seem to have a strong grasp of the English language (i.e. English Majors, or people that are avid readers) are generally better at taking tests. I remember thinking during the test, “Why would they word this questions this way?" intentionally cryptic or just to through you off.

ericrrr

Got it thanks!

ericrrr

CarlSaiyed wrote: »

Can you elaborate on your aggressive study? I see what you did with practice questions, but what else? I would read the Conrad and Sybex cover to cover, twice, while taking notes.

sure, by aggressive study i mean, every night for 2 - 4 hours. this included primarily doing practice questions, reading, watching videos, etc. I did not read any of the book cover to cover, I used the books purely for resources. I took notes (hand writen) when listening to cybrary, but I primarily made e-flash cards for subjects, topics, and questions i got wrong. (lots of flash cards).

NotHackingYou

ericrrr wrote: »

sure, by aggressive study i mean, every night for 2 - 4 hours. this included primarily doing practice questions, reading, watching videos, etc. I did not read any of the book cover to cover, I used the books purely for resources. I took notes (hand writen) when listening to cybrary, but I primarily made e-flash cards for subjects, topics, and questions i got wrong. (lots of flash cards).

I would suggest a bit more structured plan, including reading at least one book cover to cover at least once. My advise is to read through the official book, chapter by chapter and writing notes where applicable and taking the end of chapter exams. Once you finish that, read through the Conrad book. After that take practice exams and watch Cybrary until your exam date.

I read the Sybex book cover to cover once and the Conrad book cover to cover twice. I made a second pass through most of the Sybex book and still found things that I didn't have a good grasp on. This exam covers a lot of material and its tough to absorb it all.

ericrrr

CarlSaiyed wrote: »

I would suggest a bit more structured plan, including reading at least one book cover to cover at least once. My advise is to read through the official book, chapter by chapter and writing notes where applicable and taking the end of chapter exams. Once you finish that, read through the Conrad book. After that take practice exams and watch Cybrary until your exam date.

I read the Sybex book cover to cover once and the Conrad book cover to cover twice. I made a second pass through most of the Sybex book and still found things that I didn't have a good grasp on. This exam covers a lot of material and its tough to absorb it all.

Thanks for you feedback, I was planning on reading the sybex conver-to-cover, I have the older 11th hour conrad book i was going to read also, but I tried reading the CBK it's pretty bad.

tpatt100

I wouldn't worry too much on what your results on the practice tests are until you can honestly evaluate how you got those practice test scores. It's easy to run through practice tests repeatedly for hours on end but knowing why you got some right and some wrong takes patience and honesty.

I failed the CISSP the first time because I was reading but not actually "reading" and I focused too much on the technical stuff because I was most comfortable with that material. I also didn't take an honest evaluation of why I was doing well on practice tests and not on the actual one. The reason looking back was that I counted "guesses" that were right part of my final practice test score. I knew when I guessed but I wrote those off as a "pass" and just wanted to see as many practice questions as possible.

The second time I prepared I made sure to mark down which ones I guessed on and proceeded forward, I think I was using the process of elimination for 25 percent of them and blind guessing for 5 percent or so. Then I was cramming so many questions I was skipping over reading the explanations for why each one was a wrong choice along with the explanation for the correct answer.

So instead of taking hundreds of practice questions I probably only did 20 or so each study session and then spent time reading up little bits of information for why each one was wrong or right.

I think the "think like a manager" type logic come into play when you can't figure out the right answer when you think you can justify two answers as being equally valid. Then you think of safety,ethics, etc and choose the right answer

Guyotron

ericrrr wrote: »

Thanks for you feedback, I was planning on reading the sybex conver-to-cover, I have the older 11th hour conrad book i was going to read also, but I tried reading the CBK it's pretty bad.

I read 11th Hour cover to cover two days before taking the exam, and did NO studying the day before. I believe the 11th Hour book was very beneficial.

renacido

My advice:

1. Study the reference material, not the practice tests.
2. Use the practice tests to assess weak areas so you know where to focus more of your studying efforts. Practice tests are for assessing what you've learned, where you need to improve, and to build confidence before the real test. When I see people failing CISSP more often than not they took a billion practice tests but didn't read a single study guide cover-to-cover. That's bass-ackwards.
3. Use videos to help clarify stuff you have trouble really understanding or remembering, but keep in mind that if the video is boring you, it's a total waste of time. Sure CISSP study guides are dry as a popcorn fart to read, but reading is self-paced, and books don't come with narrators with annoying voices/accents to distract you.
4. Take lots of breaks, stand up, get a drink, grab a snack. Both when you study AND when you take the real test again. When I took the CISSP I took 2 bathroom breaks, ate cookies, drank 2 cups of coffee, stayed relaxed. At that point you know what you know, so getting stressed out about it will only make it harder. RELAX.

Hope this helps, now get back to work. You can do it, you've already come very close. Just make a few adjustments and you'll knock it out of the park next time.

clarkincnet

renacido wrote: »

Sure CISSP study guides are dry as a popcorn fart to read, but reading is self-paced, and books don't come with narrators with annoying voices/accents to distract you.

Found my quote of the day... awesome

ericrrr

renacido wrote: »

My advice:

1. Study the reference material, not the practice tests.
2. Use the practice tests to assess weak areas so you know where to focus more of your studying efforts. Practice tests are for assessing what you've learned, where you need to improve, and to build confidence before the real test. When I see people failing CISSP more often than not they took a billion practice tests but didn't read a single study guide cover-to-cover. That's bass-ackwards.
3. Use videos to help clarify stuff you have trouble really understanding or remembering, but keep in mind that if the video is boring you, it's a total waste of time. Sure CISSP study guides are dry as a popcorn fart to read, but reading is self-paced, and books don't come with narrators with annoying voices/accents to distract you.
4. Take lots of breaks, stand up, get a drink, grab a snack. Both when you study AND when you take the real test again. When I took the CISSP I took 2 bathroom breaks, ate cookies, drank 2 cups of coffee, stayed relaxed. At that point you know what you know, so getting stressed out about it will only make it harder. RELAX.

Hope this helps, now get back to work. You can do it, you've already come very close. Just make a few adjustments and you'll knock it out of the park next time.

Thanks for the advice! -Eric.

ericrrr

just wanted to thank the folks that took time to share their recommendations, advice, and experiences. Hopefully, the next time I Post here it will for a Pass.

-Eric.

unwankwo

hello, did you end up taking the exam again? I took the exam twice and had similar scores to yours and i really feel the same way you feel. Got 691 the first attempt and 695 the second. What did u end up doing? do you have a personal email i can contact you on?

CLICK

Never give up Eric.. i just got back from my test, after my 3rd attempt, i finally got it. It's really a test of endurance, english comprehension, test taking techniques. All the posts here are spot on, and you have the knowledge already, just translating it into the exam is needed, you should definitely get it on your next try, hey if i can do it, so can you. Cheers