IP Expert users be aware...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ccie/comments/4ajb7t/is_ipexpert_closing_doors/

nothing confirmed yet but please be aware if you are using their materials.

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diggitle

Iristheangel wrote: »

Well... there's no one at IPX to hire anyone so that'd be a non-starter. Plus I'd probably be taking a step down in pay to be a trainer for someone.

You can't work both jobs?

Iristheangel

diggitle wrote: »

You can't work both jobs?

Nope. IPX and INE compete with our Cisco Learning Partners and I sign a non-compete clause while I work here. Any extra sidework has to be approved and that would not be.

lostindaylight

I think something worth keeping in mind is these certification training vendors like IPX and INE and such, they have flashy websites that convey the notion of being some super successful rapidly growing tech company, but in reality they're small businesses that take in somewhere around 5 million in gross revenue in a good year. To put it in perspective, that's the equivalent of about 2 McDonald's stores.

A service based business of that size is going to consist of an owner/operator who is extremely good at what they do, and a small handful of full time employees, with contractors that come and go depending on short term needs and available financial resources. Unless it's like a franchise or something like that, the value and viability of such a business flows from it's founder, and if they get burnt out or something bad happens to them, that's the end of the business.

In that context, and given what we know about the company carrying substantial unmet and past due financial obligations on it's balance sheet, it's completely unrealistic to expect any sane person to purchase IPX and continue to operate it.

-lid

Mow

Iristheangel wrote: »

I know a couple people on this forum alone who bought the collab workbooks while being promised the new ones would be out in 1-2 months and that was years ago. I don't think Brian was ready for the random questions based on some of the excuse he was giving. SMH

I am one of these people. On a related note, who has good workbooks and rentals for Collab? Anyone know?

Iristheangel

Mow wrote: »

I am one of these people. On a related note, who has good workbooks and rentals for Collab? Anyone know?

Collabcert is what everyone tends to use but it's SUPER expensive. I heard they're great tho

Iristheangel

lostindaylight wrote: »

I think something worth keeping in mind is these certification training vendors like IPX and INE and such, they have flashy websites that convey the notion of being some super successful rapidly growing tech company, but in reality they're small businesses that take in somewhere around 5 million in gross revenue in a good year. To put it in perspective, that's the equivalent of about 2 McDonald's stores.

A service based business of that size is going to consist of an owner/operator who is extremely good at what they do, and a small handful of full time employees, with contractors that come and go depending on short term needs and available financial resources. Unless it's like a franchise or something like that, the value and viability of such a business flows from it's founder, and if they get burnt out or something bad happens to them, that's the end of the business.

In that context, and given what we know about the company carrying substantial unmet and past due financial obligations on it's balance sheet, it's completely unrealistic to expect any sane person to purchase IPX and continue to operate it.

-lid

You're probably right. If you really break down the math, it's not that profitable of an industry if you try to be as flashy as INE or IPX. This is the guesstimath I can figure from the INE website. They don't take pictures of their bootcamps as much anymore so I don't know how full their classes are but for the purposes of the class, let's say 20 per R&S class and 15 per DC, ok? As far as collab, SP, and security, they keep pushing out those bootcamps so I don't think they'll happen until they hire people for those specializations.

Here's the guesstimate math:
32 R&S bootcamps a year at $4990/person at 20 people per bootcamp == $3,193,600
22 DC Bootcamps a year at $5990/person at 15 people per bootcamp == $1,976,700
500 new yearly subscribers for the AAP at $900/year == $450,000
500 new workbook purchases at $250/workbook == $125,000

Total = $5,745,300

Taxes probably eats about 1/5th of that, pay for 2 instructors who do the R&S bootcamps, pay for the data center equipment and OPEX costs for all the equipment, pay for the after hours support staff, paying the instructors who made videos (they get a retainer of $40K/year for producing content. I remember seeing a job advertisement for it), office staff, locations, marketing, etc.

Mow

Thanks for the info! I have been looking at them, but price is an issue...

gorebrush

Iristheangel wrote: »

snip

I bet Narbik makes a lot more because he doesn't go in for the flashy materials, projectors etc. You're literally paying for what is in his brain, and how he delivers that.

Iristheangel

I don't think he's a millionaire but he doesn't have a lot of overhead. I think his family owns the Glendale location he does his class out of, he doesn't pay for marketing - he's all word of mouth and being a Cisco Learning Partner he can sell his classes through others and advertised on Cisco's CLN page, and like any other Cisco Learning Partner, he can use Cisco classrooms for his classes so that's less overhead right there.

There's some definitely cons tho. I don't think he does as many bootcamps, he has to pay the Cisco Learning Partner premium for every student, and he only does certain tracks though he looks like he's expanding given the Z2H SP, DC, and Security classes and he announced on FB about doing VODs sooner or later for like $15/month or something. I don't know when it's happening and he probably isn't expanding as much as the big boys do but his business growth and profit is probably more stable in general.

gorebrush

Some good points. Being over here in the UK I don't really know how the big companies operate, especially having not attended a bootcamp.

cbthut

You guys and gal

have to be kidding me.
yes it's true some countries don't have easy access to credit cards.
It is also true that in some countries banks can tell you 'screw you' about refunds for credit cards disputes.
Also, it's true debit cards can also not give you any protection in other countries.
The world is not only limited to USA and for those who happen to be immigrants or knowledgeable enough about other countries will know this.
I found it a bit undermining to add that earlier comment. Everyone here is for the same reason - making an effort to progress, is he not?

Respectfully of course, I got the feeling building a business up with revenue rate of $5 mil is something to scoff at, really? Have you ever done so? Isn't it still affording you a lifestyle more than what you get in your 9-5 job. The more you work do you get paid by way of extra bonus or commissions? Few can say yes here.
INE IPX or Narbik or whomever have broken the mold, gone on to be an entrepreneur, you think that's a small effort? Hell to the N.O. Frankly, I wish I built a business like Wayne.
He just got loose in his life it appears. The dude had (have) his CCIEs so he had his head on his body at some point. He got reckless and here he is today.
Yet we scoffing at a $5mil business which has provided many of you the opportunity to gain yours and help your families.
never cease to amaze me you can't please everyone.

lostindaylight

cbthut?

I'm sorry but who's scoffing? We were simply discussing the economics of small businesses. There was no condescension or negativity expressed or implied. Starting a business from scratch is hard as hell to do, no one has said otherwise.

The point I was making is that at that size, the viability of the business is usually function of the desire and capacity of it's founder to run it. There's not much of a separation between the owner and the business entity. That's why when service based small businesses are purchased there is typically a requirement for the seller to remain part of the operation for a period of time (along with a number of other stipulations, including audited financials that prove the business is healthy).

And yes I have done it. Quit my day job and built a company from nothing. I know what it's like to not pay myself for a couple of months and live on microwave burritos so I could make payroll.

-lid

cbthut

@lostindaylight - here and present

Just a feeling I thought I sensed or wanted to acknowledge before it got mixed in with negative connotation.
kudos for sticking with your dreams too. Hopefully you attain the $5mil if you haven't yet already exceeded it too.
However, the credit thing did rub me the wrong way, which I know wasn't you. clear bad judgment there

lostindaylight

Oh I walked away from my business interests several years ago. Being a geek is much more fun and a lot less stressful.

One of my peers at the time nailed it with this: "the best thing about being a business owner is you get to pick what 70 hours of the week you want to work". It's really not as awesome as people who've never done it think it is.

Bests,

-lid

cbthut

I wouldn't mind doing some IT teaching / tutoring on the side, give back a little and if it does make me extra cash, even better.
Probably if it mushrooms to income replacement, then probably even better too. I suspect this is how a lot of the guys we see today started.
I recalled very early CBTNuggets / Trainsignal (who later got purchased) as being similar to this.

Iristheangel

cbthut wrote: »

You guys and gal have to be kidding me.
yes it's true some countries don't have easy access to credit cards.
It is also true that in some countries banks can tell you 'screw you' about refunds for credit cards disputes.
Also, it's true debit cards can also not give you any protection in other countries.
The world is not only limited to USA and for those who happen to be immigrants or knowledgeable enough about other countries will know this.
I found it a bit undermining to add that earlier comment. Everyone here is for the same reason - making an effort to progress, is he not?

Respectfully of course, I got the feeling building a business up with revenue rate of $5 mil is something to scoff at, really? Have you ever done so? Isn't it still affording you a lifestyle more than what you get in your 9-5 job. The more you work do you get paid by way of extra bonus or commissions? Few can say yes here.
INE IPX or Narbik or whomever have broken the mold, gone on to be an entrepreneur, you think that's a small effort? Hell to the N.O. Frankly, I wish I built a business like Wayne.
He just got loose in his life it appears. The dude had (have) his CCIEs so he had his head on his body at some point. He got reckless and here he is today.
Yet we scoffing at a $5mil business which has provided many of you the opportunity to gain yours and help your families.
never cease to amaze me you can't please everyone.

I didn't scoff. I was being realistic about business. You're right. I have zero desire to be entrepreneur. I've watched my dad do that for the last 30 years and have a heart attack over it. Not interested. It's very easy to think of the total number coming in without thinking of the overhead that comes along with it - something I've seen firsthand when one of my dad's companies closed up and 200 people were out of business. It doesn't matter what great idea you have sometimes or what you put into it, sometimes the economics don't make sense or it's hard to maintain or there's simply poor business decisions somewhere in there.

As far as Gorebrush's comment, I don't think he meant anything bad by it. It wasn't directed at someone - it was more general advice to dispute the transaction ASAP since the majority of people aren't wiring the money directly to Wayne or paying by Paypal. If the Visa or Mastercard logo was used, there's protections that come with the merchant processing agreement in a lot of places. And Gorebrush isn't from the US so making a comment about him just thinking about the US is kind of silly. Relax. It wasn't a direct criticism on any one person.

As far as the extra bonuses and commission if I work harder? Absolutely. I probably average $3-6K more a month in bonuses on top of my regular salary. I don't know what that has to do with this conversation though.

gorebrush

^^ Iris - you've explained my point nicely for me, thanks

joelsfood

If anyone really did want to buy the company, you have to remember rack rentals and the equipment whose lease nonpayment is being sued for is just one, smaller aspect of the company. There is significant IP value in the training material itself. Even with new versions of most of these tests coming out, the existing videos/workbooks/quizzers/etc do have a value. But the value is only to someone who is willing to do what Wayne did and keep slaving away to keep it running. And convince people like Jason to stick around and make it worth their while. I actually talked to a couple of people about it, just kicking the idea around, and we all have our own businesses already, and it just wasn't worth the effort to any of us. But someone looking for something new might find it worthwhile. Particularly if they know the subject matter for at least one track, and are good at training, so they can save the salary of one trainer.

gorebrush

One would need a lot of capital investment in order to take that all on though.

Iristheangel

Branding is probably an issue as well now. IPX had a lot of reputation hits over the years due to some of the antics and with this latest issue, it's probably past the point of no return. If someone bought the company, they'd be stuck in a Catch-22. They'd either need to rename the company and rebrand EVERYTHING including the videos somehow so it's not a millstone around their neck or they stick with the same name and spend years trying to get the word out that it's under new management and dealing with all the crap that goes along with that. Either way, starting fresh with no reputation is going to hurt them as they gain market confidence trying to get the word out and starting with IPX's reputation is almost a non-starter.

diggitle

C colon i net pub dub dub dub root rofl.....

joelsfood

Oh, it would definitely be a huge amount of work. I'd hate to see those DC videos go to waste though, as they certainlyw orked wonders for many people.

The best way to solve the reputation part is to have someone who already has a reputation take the IP (assuming the original, non-watermarked videos are still available somewhere) and run with it with their own reputation. Ala collabcert and others. There are a LOT of former instructors out there int he CCIE market (former IPX AND INE employees) who have a following in their own right that could be used as a starting point if they could get the existing material reasonably and rebrand it as something new. Someone would have to look at the contracts the former instructors had in creating the videos to work out the details though.

Again, just throwing things at the wall. It's definitely not something I could do. If you want to get really ambitious, talk to your electric co about getting a new 220V 200amp run into an outbuilding and setup some racks off of Ebay. Small business loans for 500k or more aren't that hard to get, if you have a good business plan and passable credit.

Iristheangel

I agree, Joel. I have been bugging Jason to finish his CCIE DC v2 videos for the greater good :P

gorebrush

Well if they were sensible they would have kept the unwatermarked raw footage - would at least make the company more attractive to sell if of course they were looking to do that.

iseeyou

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree, Joel. I have been bugging Jason to finish his CCIE DC v2 videos for the greater good :P

i totally agree with you, if he can finish it and sell it, that will be appreciated deeply!!!

chrisone

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree, Joel. I have been bugging Jason to finish his CCIE DC v2 videos for the greater good :P

Where do I sign up?!!!!!! lol

For the meantime Mark Snow and his company Lumos has at least some courses on ACI, VXLAN, EVPN. So I will definitely be on board there for those topics.

It is probably going to come down to piecing up the topics from different vendors providing materials for v2.

DPG

There usually isn't much to be made with training. The real money comes from getting contracts with the students' employers.

jason_lunde

Wow, epic thread! A lot of the DC videos will go to waste unfortunately, unless somebody buys IPX, or Wayne come's back and posts them. I, about 2 months ago, finished all the UCS and 1000v videos for v2..nobody ever saw these

Unfortunately I am an honest man, and won't reuse, or resell them, as I developed them on IPX time and equipment, and thus they are IPX property. I have however purchased my own production equipment, and will (one the side) be producing some stuff. I can let you guys know when and where it will be posted if your interested!

Iristheangel

Definitely interested.

BTW, have I told you what a fangirl I am, Jason? #NoHetero #NoSexualHarassment

gorebrush

Ah I did wonder when you'd pop in! Thanks for the honest update.

Does look like the company is going south. I'm guessing IPX wasn't your sole source of income?