Beware of VMware certs

markulous

Just kind of a heads up to anyone thinking about getting a VMware certification...

Today is actually my last day working at VMware. Management here was great and good place to work, but their certification department is the worst I've seen. I passed the ICM back in January, took the vSphere foundations exam, then passed the VCP6-DTM shortly afterwards. Since it said it can take up to 30 days, I gave them a bit of time, but never got my certification.

I emailed their certification department regarding this. After a few days I get a response stating I didn't take the ICM and they closed my case. I call them up and reopen it, but the guy that owns the case isn't available. I let them know I did take it and it's on my VMware account. Get an email reply shortly saying the ICM I took (View 6.0 ICM) doesn't qualify because the class code doesn't match their supported ICMs. However I'm supporting the product they are certifying me on and the certificate I got for completing the ICM was signed by the CEO of VMware. This course was taught by a VMware employee and is their standard course for anyone supporting View, Mirage, Workspace, etc.

I got my manager involved and they ignored him basically. So looks like I won't actually have a VCP as I'm not spending money out of my own pocket for another ICM.

My situation is probably rare, but just word to the wise, make sure the ICM you take 100% qualifies or you'll be in the same boat as me. If I had spent 1500/2k out of pocket for this I'd be livid.

scaredoftests

Good grief. That is horrendous.

DPG

Did they terminate you for not getting certified?

markulous

No, I left on my own accord, not related to the certification in any way. I wanted to pursue a career in Infosec and got on with LogRhythm, who develops a SIEM.

ande0255

I was told by our vmware partner contact that he would waive the class requirement if I passed the VCP5 exam a year or so back, and after that he stated that the class was waived during a promotional period (which was now over), which if that were disclosed I would not have taken my time studying like I did.

Between him, my companies vendor contact, and his manager I provided an email that told me the class would be waived with no timelines or restrictions. Here is the actual verbiage of the email of if they offered discounts for my company to take VCP exams:

"(Myname) – You can now take the VCP Exam without having to go through the actual course. Please follow the link below. There are also exam materials on that same site."

I will never give another penny to that company, their certification process is a joke, and apparently their certification department is an even bigger laugh.

DPG

There is usually some type of time limit involved when the waivers are granted.

Lexluethar

Ya their certification process is stupid. First you have to take a class that costs thousands of dollars. Secondly once you take that course you have to register your vmware account (or link it with your current). Once that is done you have to get your class validated (like a 2k debit from an account is valid enough). once validated you can then take the exam.

They are streamlining this process so that you no longer have to get the class validated. I also think it's crazy you cannot link your personal account with vmware. My.vmware.com is linked to your business account, which is going to be your business email address. What do you do once you are no longer working there? it's kinda stupid how this whole process pans out.

Anyways, good luck to you. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. I'm lucky to this point and I haven't had any bad experiences, just the process is a complete joke and costs far more than any other certification.

JoJoCal19

markulous wrote: »

No, I left on my own accord, not related to the certification in any way. I wanted to pursue a career in Infosec and got on with LogRhythm, who develops a SIEM.

Congrats! I love LogRhythm, fav SIEM. I would love to be a sales engineer for them one day. What will your role be?

markulous

It's a support role for their product. My goal is to use 6 to 12 months of that to get into a analyst type role and finally get out of support once and for all.

TheFORCE

I'll be sending sys logs to Logrythm from our filers shortly. Make sure you give priority to my stuff

markulous

Lol sounds good.

jibbajabba

I sat a Beta ICM for vROPS 6.1 back in the day as PSO partner ... Education would not want to accept it for our competency which required the ICM for vROPS 6.0 - even though THEY booked me into that course to begin with ...

Took months to sort ...

scott28tt

The requirements for VCP6-DTM are pretty clear, and from what you've said you have met them:

1. Take one of the classes: Horizon (with View): Install, Configure, Manage [V6] OR Horizon (with View): Install, Configure, Manage [V6] On Demand OR Horizon (with View): Install, Configure, Manage [V6.2] OR Horizon: Design and Deploy [V6] OR VMware Mirage [V5.0] and Horizon with View [V6.0]: Fast Track
2. Pass the vSphere Foundations exam
3. Pass the VCP6-DTM exam

So the View 6.0 ICM should have qualified you.

I'll send you a PM with my email address - I am connected with some folks in the Certification group.

scott28tt

Lexluethar wrote: »

Ya their certification process is stupid. First you have to take a class that costs thousands of dollars. Secondly once you take that course you have to register your vmware account (or link it with your current). Once that is done you have to get your class validated (like a 2k debit from an account is valid enough). once validated you can then take the exam.

They are streamlining this process so that you no longer have to get the class validated. I also think it's crazy you cannot link your personal account with vmware. My.vmware.com is linked to your business account, which is going to be your business email address. What do you do once you are no longer working there? it's kinda stupid how this whole process pans out.

The class requirement? This helps the VCP actually have some sort of meaning/recognition in the industry, unlike certifications from many other vendors.

The new exam reg process? This has finally corrected a lot of pain.

myLearn accounts? You can create a new account and email mylearn_support@vmware.com to ask them to merge your old one with your new one.

DPG

scott28tt wrote: »

The class requirement? This helps the VCP actually have some sort of meaning/recognition in the industry, unlike certifications from many other vendors.

Which vendors have meaningless and unrecognized certifications?

scaredoftests

DPG wrote: »

Which vendors have meaningless and unrecognized certifications?

I am curious as well...

jfitzg

VMware certs are nothing but a money grabbing scam by VMware. They showed their true colors when they switched to the pathetically laughable "re-certification track", which shows that they are much more interested in making money than anything else. I am happy to never give another penny to VMware, and am cancelling my $20k contract the moment it is up. AWS, here I come!

markulous

Agreed with the re-certification thing. That's my biggest issue with them. They expire every 2 years (which is not typical since Cisco and other vendors do 3 years), but I don't understand why they expire. They're based on versions. Once you're certified on VCP5, why would something change to where you need to re-certify?

scaredoftests

The same goes with CompTia Security + CE. I 'continued' my education (40 hours) and now I don't have to get certified now until 2018. Pretty sweet.

jfitzg

markulous wrote: »

Agreed with the re-certification thing. That's my biggest issue with them. They expire every 2 years (which is not typical since Cisco and other vendors do 3 years), but I don't understand why they expire. They're based on versions. Once you're certified on VCP5, why would something change to where you need to re-certify?

Because its a money grab from VMware. First off, the fact that you need to re-test is pathetic. I have MANY certifications, most of which expire. The number that require a re-test to recertify is nill for me, they require CPEs. Lets look at other professions, do doctors have to re-take their boards? No. Do Lawyers have to re-take the bar? No. Why? Because these arent run by greedy scum sucking companies like VMware. On top of that, if they really cared about people keeping "up to date" with their skills (their pathetic BS excuse for doing this), they would require that you take the test on the SAME product to re-certify. Instead, I can pass my View exam and that will re-certify my VCP, WTF? Im patiently waiting for the day that the next big thing in virtualization technology comes along and puts VMware out of business, it will probably be a while, but hopefully it will happen and we can rid the wold of the joke called VMware.

TheNewITGuy

I hate renewing certifications

GSXR750K2

I am (was?) considering going for the VCP6 in something (DCV probably) to be more marketable in the areas I'm wanting to move to. I'm fortunate enough and willing enough to pay for the ICM out of pocket to make it happen, but I've always thought that it was on the ludicrous side to require that kind of investment in addition to taking the exam. I work with building, maintaining, or expanding Hyper-V clusters a good part of the time, so VM concepts, configurations, and operations aren't new to me. Typically, boot camps are frowned upon, but VMware requires it? Seems like an unnecessary evil to me.

As for scott's statement that the ICM class helps make it more credible unlike other vendors, I'd have to defer to a precedent VMware has already set for themselves. For a time, my CCNA would have satisfied the VCP6-NV ICM requirement, but I got around to looking at the certifications too late and that expired at the end of January, so I know they are at least willing to entertain the idea of equivalent instruction, which means they've acknowledged in that case, at least, that passing another vendor's exam is good enough for them...even if that vendor doesn't require a class and is one of the vendors you were referring to as having little meaning or recognition because it doesn't.

While I'm considering the cert, this ICM requirement makes it sound more like a country club...if you can afford (or get an employer to pay for) the training, we'll give you the cert...other than that, sorry.

TheProf

From someone who's taken the VCP course, I can say that it gives you a good base to start learning vSphere, so it's not a waste of money if in the end the knowledge acquired yields you better opportunities, both career wise and financially.

Personally I would not recommend it to experienced admins, but it does give the certification some value when a course is required in order to obtain a certification, you are actually in class doing labs and learning (brings value). The cost of the course is high, last time I checked, it was 4K+, but that's supposed to be paid by the employer, not employee. Second, the re-certification policy in my opinion is a good idea from a "knowledge refresh", I can understand the frustration to having to pay for it, but for that, you can always do the delta exam at half the cost to re-certify if need be.

The way I see it, if I am certified in something from 5 years ago, I am pretty certain that in IT, everything that I studied for 5 years ago, might not be relevant today, so why would I say I have the knowledge of a VCP3 when the technology today is almost completely different? The way I see it, no need to redo the same exam every two years, just do the new version, learn new things and automatically re-certify yourself by passing the new exam.

philz1982

This is why I have never pursued a VMWare certification. Why am I going to pay for a class when I can teach myself better then the professor can? I know how I learn best, why would I sit through hours of a class when I can simply self study?

Stupid policy if you ask me.

TheProf

philz1982 wrote: »

This is why I have never pursued a VMWare certification. Why am I going to pay for a class when I can teach myself better then the professor can? I know how I learn best, why would I sit through hours of a class when I can simply self study?

Stupid policy if you ask me.

Good point, I also prefer self-study when possible. However not everyone is like you or me, some people have a hard time studying on their own. Some need a structure like what modules to study, what labs to do, how much time to spend on a topic, asking questions because the material because its hard to understand, etc.

The course is not for everyone, but it doesn't mean that it has no value because you, your self can study and learn things at a faster rate. To you, the course does not bring value, and that's perfectly fine.

Unfortunately, the course requirement is for everyone, regardless of your skill level or aptitude for learning on your own. That's where having a good employer who is willing to send you on training is very important.

markulous

TheProf wrote: »

The way I see it, if I am certified in something from 5 years ago, I am pretty certain that in IT, everything that I studied for 5 years ago, might not be relevant today, so why would I say I have the knowledge of a VCP3 when the technology today is almost completely different? The way I see it, no need to redo the same exam every two years, just do the new version, learn new things and automatically re-certify yourself by passing the new exam.

That is where I disagree with you. VCP3 is based of version 3.x of the product. It doesn't matter if it's been 5 months or 5 years, I can guarantee that there aren't going to be many changes within that version.

Lexluethar

Scott i agree with you, i didn't mean to say the class was a bad idea. It weeds out a ton of test dumpers that would normally have 15 certifications on their resume. I think the price point is so high though a lot of very well qualified individuals cannot be certified because they simply cannot afford a 2k course and their employer won't pay for it.

I'm fortunate and my employer paid for me. I feel the quality of the course was good as well but the level of knowledge gained in the course is not enough to pass the exam - so why have the course? The cost of the course is also an entrance barrier for a lot of people that cannot shell out that much money for something they might be able to get a tax deduction from.

I agree, i'm glad they are fixing the issue of having to have your test validated. Did it take long? No mine took like 24 hours but it's another step in a pretty convoluted process IMO.

I'm updating my email account now - i didn't realize you could actually change it from your profile page on mylearn.vmware

TheProf

markulous wrote: »

That is where I disagree with you. VCP3 is based of version 3.x of the product. It doesn't matter if it's been 5 months or 5 years, I can guarantee that there aren't going to be many changes within that version.

I think it's a gray area to be honest. When I look at re-certification, I look at "updating" my skillset, which means doing a certification related to today's tech. For example, if I pass VCP6-DCV today, I will have until April 5, 2018 to re-certify. Would I still do the VCP6-DCV exam in 2018? Definitely not, I will do VCP7 or VCP8, whatever it is at that time to "refresh" my skillset.

Again, it really depends on how you look at things and this is where the debate comes into play because everyone has a different idea of what re-certifications means. At the end of the day, I look at how I can better myself, and studying for new tech instead of old, makes me more valuable. So for me, the re-certification policy does not really matter because I know that I need to update my skillset.

jfitzg

TheProf wrote: »

I think it's a gray area to be honest. When I look at re-certification, I look at "updating" my skillset, which means doing a certification related to today's tech. For example, if I pass VCP6-DCV today, I will have until April 5, 2018 to re-certify. Would I still do the VCP6-DCV exam in 2018? Definitely not, I will do VCP7 or VCP8, whatever it is at that time to "refresh" my skillset.

Again, it really depends on how you look at things and this is where the debate comes into play because everyone has a different idea of what re-certifications means. At the end of the day, I look at how I can better myself, and studying for new tech instead of old, makes me more valuable. So for me, the re-certification policy does not really matter because I know that I need to update my skillset.

Sorry, but no one outside of greedy IT companies like Cisco and VMware do anything like this. Doctors literally save lives, and have WAY more new information to learn over the years than going from ESXi 5.x to 6.x. Don't you think if this line of logic held any form of water, it would be used outside of Cisco and VMware, such as making doctors retake their board exams every few years? Do you know what Advanced Persistent Threats are? You know how hard those are to keep up with? Don't you think that if this line of logic weren't just a scummy money grab that Offensive Security would make OSCPs re-certify every time a new distro of Kali comes out? Why cant you just admit the obvious, what this really is...

Edit: you also ignore the fact that you dont even need to take a newer version of an exam to re-certify on old tech. I had my VCP 4 and 5 for several years, all I needed to do was take a View (or others) exam to re-certify those, didnt have to take my 6.x exam to re-certify my older exams. How exactly does that "keep you updated on the latest tech" as you like to say?

TheProf

jfitzg wrote: »

Sorry, but no one outside of greedy IT companies like Cisco and VMware do anything like this. Doctors literally save lives, and have WAY more new information to learn over the years than going from ESXi 5.x to 6.x. Don't you think if this line of logic held any form of water, it would be used outside of Cisco and VMware, such as making doctors retake their board exams every few years? Do you know what Advanced Persistent Threats are? You know how hard those are to keep up with? Don't you think that if this line of logic weren't just a scummy money grab that Offensive Security would make OSCPs re-certify every time a new distro of Kali comes out? Why cant you just admit the obvious, what this really is...

Edit: you also ignore the fact that you dont even need to take a newer version of an exam to re-certify on old tech. I had my VCP 4 and 5 for several years, all I needed to do was take a View (or others) exam to re-certify those, didnt have to take my 6.x exam to re-certify my older exams. How exactly does that "keep you updated on the latest tech" as you like to say?

Look, I get that investing in some vendor certs might cost more by requiring courses and re-certifications every couple of years, heck even VMware certs are expensive, I'll admit it, VCAPs $400USD? Really? But at the end of the day it's a business, businesses are here to make money. No one is saying that VMware and Cisco's policy for re-certification is the way to go, but it is what it is for now. Maybe if more of us spoke out, it would change, who knows.

I also completely understand the fact that it's not exactly a great feeling to having spent time and money on expensive VMware exams for it to then expire after 2 years if not renewed.

The point I was trying to make is that I personally don't see a re-certification policy as a bad thing because I try and stay up do date through doing certifications that are more recent which in turn renews the older certification, or like you said, take an exam from a different track and have it renew the others.

joelsfood

Doctor's boards do have recertification exams, as well as continuing education requirements (MOC)
https://www.abim.org/maintenance-of-certification/exam-information/infectious-disease/exam-dates.aspx