How would you handle being snubbed

Techguru365

I have been at my current role for almost a year, and believe it or not, I am one of the senior person at that position(company restructed contract a year ago and most of the older employees left). The company has recently added a bunch of new job functions, some of which are lateral and others that are a step up from what I do currently. I applied for a few of the positions that are promotion potential and have had no reply from HR, however i see new ppl being interviewed and also there were ppl that came after me, some of whom dont even have all the requirements being moved up.

I have always done my job well, however I Think due to my personality(quiet guy), I am being overlooked. I want to know how you guys would respond to this snub if you were in my shoe, I have tried to be more talkative, but thats just not my personality and me being quiet has never prevented me from being a team player or performing my job related duties.

I am currently working on abtaining my CISSP and plan to start applying externally once that happens. I just think it sucks that I will potentially have to go be the new guy somewhere else, when this company had the advancement potential in house, was close to my home etc.

What do you guys think?

markulous

Is there an opportunity for you to put in application for a higher position? If not, can you tell them you're interested?

If you've done the above and you still feel snubbed, sorry to say the best thing to do is go somewhere else. I've been snubbed before and ended up sticking with it because of the downtime used to finish my degree and actually ended up getting a couple of promotions there. However, it sounds like you have no reason to stay. Time to start getting your resume prepped.

scaredoftests

Start sending out resumes.

philz1982

As I've moved up the ranks the constant theme I've found is relationships get you hired.

Example,

I applied for our Director of Cyber Security. I knew no-one in the engineering group and no-one knew me. At the end of the day I didn't get the job.

Fast forward 1 year, I've been working with the products group on several programs. I am on the sale side and bring invaluable customer feedback. I've been helping to architect our new architecture and several integrated solutions. One of the biggest challenges our engineering group has is getting multiple stakeholders aligned. I've shown through my leadership in these programs that I can influence and align people.

Now a Lead Systems Architect role has opened up, I took a totally different approach. I went to the hiring manager and talked to him, he in turn had me meet with 3 of his lead managers. I've met with them and they let me know my strengths and weaknesses. I believe I can now go into the interview process as a known contributor, and my biggest weakness, that I am a "sales guy" can be explained.

I have sponsorship from several product managers and from the VP of Engineering. Not sure if I will get the job but by doing this relational pre-work I believe the chances are much higher. We have a saying in sales "All things being equal people buy from their friends. All things not being equal people still buy from their friends."

Make sense?

-Phil

Techguru365

they are expanding the area I work in and that includes creation of some new Job roles that are above what I do currently. The thing that bugs me is that the company always brag about how they prefer to promote from within and now here I am, applying for these jobs and them not even having the decency to respond to my application. I guess I wouldnt have been so offended if they had responded and give me a denial with a valid explanation.

We have a guy here that has taken His level2 cert five times and failed, however he is being promoted. I have my cert in hand and stagnant.

I would love to have that "sales guy" attitude, but no matter how I try, that doesnt last long. I guess you cant change your true persoanlity, though I am not so reserved that I am unapproachable, just more quiet than the average person. I am however only guessing that my personality is the reason though, as no one has said anything directly to me.

networker050184

Have you gone and talked to your manager about wanting to move up?

Techguru365

He knows I apllied. He was the one who sent out the email letting us know about the expansion and the new roles being created. I told him that I applied to the jobs he referred to us and all he said was ok. I guess what pisses me off the most is seeing someone without the required qualification or more experience than me being moved up and I remain stuck, because I am not on the buddy system.

powerfool

I have been there. I worked for a small company a couple of jobs ago and I replaced a network/systems admin that actually farmed out most of the serious work to consultants. I came in and handled things myself and trained up the junior folks on these things. I pushed through tons of initiatives and took on more and more responsibilities. The manager was having a hard time playing the middle manager politics (it was apparent) and he was let go. I applied for the job and basically filled in for the role "unofficially" on an interim basis; I didn't get it. I felt it was a bit of a slap in the face but decided to use it as a learning opportunity and stuck around. I tried learning from the new manager who ultimately left within a year. So, I thought this was great, I had another year of experience and worked closely with the manager to develop into this sort of role (and I also received a "title" promotion). Well, same result. So, I started interviewing elsewhere. I definitely was super qualified for it, but they want some sort of "yes man" (the department reported to the CFO who always felt like IT was telling him "no"... and we were because he was requesting things that created loads technical debt and didn't make sense financially... funny, with him being the CFO). They hired a high school class mate of the CFO and tried to pretend that it had no bearing on the situation. The guy had been out of work and was desperate... so he would certainly be willing to play "yes man" for a former class mate.

I found a new job and things were great. I took advantage of every opportunity to self-improve and I executed my work fantastically. Every year they would tell me a promotion was in line and that if I met my objectives at the next review, I would be a shoe-in. Same story for four annual reviews. My salary increases and bonuses certainly reflected their pleasure with my results... just no promotion. So, I left.

I made a lateral move to a better opportunity. At this point, I don't care if I get a promotion, but there are a couple of upward moves I wouldn't mind. However, my next move won't be for anything less than a managerial move (unless it is a technical role at Microsoft or something equally appealing). I interviewed at a company that was looking for a tech lead person but only wanted to give it a "senior" title (I have had a "senior" title for over a decade). They said they weren't hiring for a lead but the description was definitely for a lead. They told me there would definitely be an opportunity for promotion. I told them that I wasn't interested... and they still bothered with sending me a letter to inform me they were considering someone else... I sure hope so, because I told you I wasn't interested.

I think it comes down to be buddy-buddy with people. That really isn't my personality. I come to work to do a good job. I work cordially with my coworkers and I help them to develop and learn every chance I get. I am involved with and take ownership of large projects and bring them to success. But I don't go out of my way to have lunch with superiors or their peers or things like that (which is probably one of my issues).

I don't know what the answer is, obviously... because I haven't cracked the code. I know what kinds of people I don't want to work for and I try to not be like them. I definitely do managerial things (I even helped with development plans for junior folks). I have vision and creative thinking that is valuable to the organizations I work with. There is just something missing.

Maybe sharing this helps you see what I am doing wrong and gives you something to consider for yourself.

philz1982

I'm just gonna come out and say this. Your attitude sucks. Stop worrying about who applied or got promoted, can you control that? No, you can't.

Look, no matter how introverted you are you can learn to be interested in people. I'm not a back slapping, gregarious person but I make a choice to find out what people need and to help them. Help enough people get what they want and you'll get everything you want.

Or you can just wallow in pity around who got a promotion and who didn't.

UncleB

Techguru365 wrote: »

they are expanding the area I work in and that includes creation of some new Job roles that are above what I do currently.

This is one of your key obstacles - you are known for what you do and are likely to be labelled as that - moving you up means having to get a replacement that can do what you do and that isn't attractive. You are also not doing the role that is being advertised and hiring managers prefer someone with active experience, no just ambition.

Techguru365 wrote: »

We have a guy here that has taken His level2 cert five times and failed, however he is being promoted. I have my cert in hand and stagnant.

This may come across as harsh to you, but it needs saying - nobody likes a whiner. Stop being that person and start selling yourself if you are good enough - use that sales skill to look in the mirror and work out how you would make the customer (the hiring manager) want to hire you in a flash.

I always found that once you get stuck in a position where you cannot get seen as suitable for a better role then the only option is to go elsewhere. They will miss you when you resign (in fact plan to have a fall back that if they offer the position once they realise the could lose you) but it has been my overwhelming experience that you only get considered for moving up he chain when you go elsewhere.

Good luck
Iain

NOC-Ninja

You have 2 choices.
Get in due to the buddy system or be super technical that they cannot ignore you.
Im a quiet guy also but I back that up with my education/certs. Now they cannot ignore me.

I went through whatever you are going through.

Techguru365

My attitude sucks? how did you arrive at that coclusion? you must be related to the psychic miss Cleo.
I never said I could control who gets promoted, but I am human, and if I am in a role and seeing other less qualified people get promoted and I am passed upon, I think its only natural that I would wonder what the hell is going on.

Like I have tried to reiterate, I am able to work in a team and I know how to do the job. I also stated that the reason for me being overlooked was never explained, and that I am only theorizing that it could be due to me being a quiet person.

I dont want to be disrespectful to you, but if you dont have any worthwhile contribution, it would be best if you remained silent than to make a ignorant and baseless statement regarding my attitude without actually knowing me.

At no point was I here wallowing in pity, I merely am looking for people who believed they are or were once in this same situation to share their experience as well as give advice as to how they overcame it.

Techguru365

Thanks for your reply. In response to your first point, I dont think thats the case. there is only one person in the office that has experience in that role, so all the new ppl hired so far are going to be trained by that guy.

I really wouldnt consider myself to be a whiner. I have never complained to anyone within the office that I feel overlooked, never let it impede me from carrying out my duties as normal. I am just posting a thread on the forum that state a concern i am having, I apologize if that is interpreted as whining.

Techguru365

You have 2 choices.
Get in due to the buddy system or be super technical that they cannot ignore you.
Im a quiet guy also but I back that up with my education/certs. Now they cannot ignore me.

I went through whatever you are going through.

yes, i agree. thats why I have ramped up my studying for this CISSP exam. hope I can acquire it soon.

philz1982

Techguru365 wrote: »

My attitude sucks? how did you arrive at that coclusion? you must be related to the psychic miss Cleo.
I never said I could control who gets promoted, but I am human, and if I am in a role and seeing other less qualified people get promoted and I am passed upon, I think its only natural that I would wonder what the hell is going on.

Like I have tried to reiterate, I am able to work in a team and I know how to do the job. I also stated that the reason for me being overlooked was never explained, and that I am only theorizing that it could be due to me being a quiet person.

I dont want to be disrespectful to you, but if you dont have any worthwhile contribution, it would be best if you remained silent than to make a ignorant and baseless statement regarding my attitude without actually knowing me.

At no point was I here wallowing in pity, I merely am looking for people who believed they are or were once in this same situation to share their experience as well as give advice as to how they overcame it.

The thing that bugs me is that the company always brag about how they prefer to promote from within and now here I am, applying for these jobs and them not even having the decency to respond to my application.

We have a guy here that has taken His level2 cert five times and failed, however he is being promoted. I have my cert in hand and stagnant.

The above are directly written by you. You are complaining about the company and you are complaing about someone else being promoted.

Event X Attitude = Outcome

You cannot control the event you can control you attitude.

Multiple people on here have stated that you need to be connected to move up. That doesn't mean you get a pass on skill you must have that as well.

You can chose to be offended by my bluntness or you can take it as candid feedback based on your own words, honestly I don't care either way. If you want to see me as insulting fine, or you can look at what I said as someone taking time to tell you a fault in your attitude and you can adjust.

Techguru365

And I have also mentioned that of the people moved into these roles thus far, I am more skilled, and qualified than all of them and thats not bragging.
You were being a bit insulting by making a character reference without knowing me, I have no problem with blunt honesty or getting a swift kick in the butt from time to time, what I have a problem with is being mischaracterized and judged wrongfully. Thanks for yor advice however.

EnderWiggin

I was once in a help desk role, and I was great at it. They wouldn't move me up, because they wanted me to continue doing great on the help desk. I ended up taking interviews elsewhere, landed a new role, and out in my two weeks' notice. All of a sudden they were willing to talk about moving me up, but at that point, it was too little too late. I would suggest doing the same. Just don't be that person that gives them an ultimatum, either commit to another position, or stay with that company.

Techguru365

yea, i sent my resume out to a company to get it revised professionally, and once I get it back I will definitely be applying elsewhere. If it takes me getting a new offer to be offered a promotion, thats not a company I want to work with.

Kreken

Techguru365 wrote: »

He knows I apllied. He was the one who sent out the email letting us know about the expansion and the new roles being created. I told him that I applied to the jobs he referred to us and all he said was ok. I guess what pisses me off the most is seeing someone without the required qualification or more experience than me being moved up and I remain stuck, because I am not on the buddy system.

You know, when I send emails and don't get replies, I pick up the phone and ask them if they by any chance they've seen my email and politely ask them to respond.

Techguru365

I got the autoreply stating that the email was received, thanks for applying etc. You think that would be appropiate?

renacido

I think you know what you need to do (network within your company, sell yourself to the hiring managers, get some face-time with people who can nudge your resume to the top of the pile, etc). My impression is you're resisting because those are outside of your comfort zone.

Reality is, people don't hire based purely on skills, credentials, certs, degrees, etc. Those are important factors of course, but they also hire based on who they want to work with and who they think with be good for the team. If you want the job, you have to market yourself to them. If you feel that getting the job this way requires you to be someone you are not, consider it a set of activities that are part of managing your career. I don't enjoy writing resumes. But I have to write my own and they have to be well-written. It's part of the process. We all have to do stuff we don't enjoy from time to time. If you're an introvert then face-to-face networking and relationship building might be out of your comfort zone. Still have to do it. If you want to move up in your company, suck it up and go fight for what you want. If you really want it be willing to earn it. And sitting back expecting the world to appreciate you may not be all it takes to earn it.

Or, you can look for another job elsewhere, but understand you have to market yourself to get your next job unless you work for yourself.

Hope this helps.

renacido

Also, it's a no-brainer that the hiring manager calls your current manager if you're seriously considered for a lateral or upward move. So if your boss barely knows you exist or if you have a bumpy relationship with him/her, that isn't doing you any favors.