*Rollover A+/Network+ to ETA certification CST and CNST*

Tcat

Hey if I am ever a bit garbled with my answers,
I accepts smacks.

While I operate on the plenty enough time of rest when I am dead theory...

I sometimes get tired enough to not sound much more inetlligent than a rock.

I'm being dense and not getting the promo code. I do know they are used for some targeted specials .... That tends to be the nature of shopping cart software...

The $5. I can answer. That is me with a hurry up and fix that problem. SE4L and the ETA are seeing a lot of overseas action. I guess the I in ETA-I.org might have something to do with meaning International

Well... what knocked me over was the cost difference in Many (not all) countries. It all varies by Postal Treaty per country.

My orgional position was, fine, eat the 5-6 bucks for the one or two requests a month. You can live with that ETA, since your getting more member $ and more members.

Well --- susprise! They didn't get 1 or 2 overseas requests and they we're getting clobbered with postal costs. Some countries are as much as $14-16 bucks for a box weighing in less than a pound!

And the funny part is these are the counties with the lower wages! Add to that, we cannot mail some countries at all. The stuff just never arrives. Example would be an Aids hospital I support in Africa. Books to the IT staff we're stolen in the mail! So this stuff requires UPS or FedEX or Dunhill where I guess the system has drivers packing colt 45's or something.

So the quick answer was the same as my quest for getting certification out in the 3rd world. Charge something. Yes, the US folks are helping out as the postage itself isn't $5 in the USA. And that couple bucks you give up gets the package to a guy or gal in Africa, who had to hurt a little to come up with the extra $5.

So I'm following my plan just like the whole game plan for certification in the 3rd world countries. Only I'm applying that to postage too... Yes. Frankly, I sticking it to us Americans for a whopping couple bucks. So we have to give up a fancy lunch one day to finance a Mexician or a guy/gal in Korea.

They aren't getting a free ride. They really gotta put out to get these certs. And with certs, I suspect that fewer people will be attempting to cross the fence into the usa looking for work...

Now if I can only find a way to get this done without needing the MX postal system... So far, that isn't impressing me too much...

Tcat

Wireless USB is coming

http://www.usb.org/developers/wusb/About_WUSB2.pdf

U3 thumb drives ...

http://www.verbatim.com/u3/

"Password protected thumb drive that you can install firefox, thunderbird, trillion and there is even a ms office type app for it. the neat thing is you can bring it with you and it leaves no trace of your net surfing on the pc you were surfing on."

Something to think about...

TheShadow

Uhh Tcat did you just write that A+ will cost $500 starting in Jan 2007 ? Are the two tests going to be $250 each?? Do you know if the price of any of the other certs are going to increase?? That is really going to put a cramp in new people starting out. I would bet other certs will become a lot more popular. Having read your writings on a lot of this over the years I more fully understand your motivation. This is all kind of sad compared to the cost of ETA, Microsoft or Cisco entry level tests.

Tcat

Ok, TheShadow. Busted completly for rounding numbers. Beginning in Sept 2006, the new A+ progam rolls out. The Essentials test will be a combo of the Existing program, 1 test at $245. The candiate will NOT be A+ certified until they take a 2nd test @ $245. This will be IT Pro OR 2 other tests, @ $245 each. So I lied. It will be $245 x 2, so $490, not $500.

This brings A+ in line with all comptia test fees the same. Some tests require 2 tests... A+, HTI+ and CTT+. Others are a single test like I-Net+, Security+, for example.

Discounts are gone in all but lip service. you can become a member of comptia for about $40, an get a discount for 1 test per year, yielding about a $35 dollar disount... or and effective increase of about $5 a test over retail, but you are a CompTIA member, which neatly closes a little problem with the IRS and non-profit orgs.

The new A+ progam is mandatory in Januay... I am not sure what calander everyone else is looking at, but mine says we are 6 weeks away from the phase in of the new deal.

Now personally, yes being A+ certified many times over, I can take only one or more of the 2nd tests @ $245 to get my A+ in several specialities.

Yes. I admit it. I can write that check anytime and get blessed in all 3 A+ specialties if some school wants me to have that for classes and I won't be begging for discounts on taco's in Mexico.

Now while that REALLY sucks for my Avg. non-USA student... this becomes several months to a one year salary for someone not living in the US/Canada/England. Akin to a US student wanting to become a Doctor (M.D) tution only to get a job that will give them $25 a day after investing $ 500 in test fees, PLUS training and experience.

So yeah. I see this a very difficult for a kid in the USA to get in the game. And to a kid in Mexico, New Zeland, Korea (for example) ... difficult is not the word. Pipe dream comes to mind. So they will risk thier lives spending $ 4K to a coyate to risk getting them illegally across the border to get a $4.00 an hour job.

I'm not forgetting my students in the USA in this... I don't want to see uncertified slave labor working for $4 an hour here in the USA.

I want to see affordable certs in the USA at a max. of $100 on a fair test and tests for $10-$30 where the minimum wage is $4 a day.

In other words, equal $ pain, based on the local economy. For the same cert. If a CST can make $25 a day locally in Mexico, there would be little reason to pay $4K to a smuggler of your body where you would illegally make 4x8 = $32. to pay the higher food and lodging costs.

I don't want to sound like some political wack job. I have spent my life as an engineer. I have no interest in politics. I DO understand Return On Invsetment.

We get Mexicians working on those sealed Dell boxes shipping now as refirb units or they go to China as scrap in land fill where the lead and other heavy metals wind up in the world water supply.

The answer will be "whatever is cheapest". With labor certified for less money in the US and outside the US, we will get the MIT $100 computer via cheap labor south of the US border, for the even poorer countries...

The US will get folks who are modern day trade folks under the old time tested rules of apprentice, journayman, master with affordable ETA test...

I feel that the LSD day's of the 90's and IT with unlimited growth are being held on to as some glory days we can return to. Sorry. As an LSD guy from the '60's, I know that is that you would have to be on LSD to believe the good old days are coming back. I've been hoping for 40+ years and all I got is memories. Time to wake up and smell the coffee and the fact that


The World Is Flat.

A required reading book if you don't want to be living in fantasy.

We CAN adapt and see Success to be the leaders of the planet again. that means IT in the world and the USA being the lead of IT. It will take effort with co-operation for lower lever job going to less trained countries...

It becomes a not-zero-sum-game, but a float all boats game. Something I could not get agreement with some other Pacific Nortwest of folks of about 20 year olds when the Army transferred me to "finance" because I had some knowledge of computers and finance in the US Miltary was going to "compterize".

In this long post of an obviously over tired Tcat, I most miss my time with Bob Wallace... he wrote MS PASCAL and took care of the hardware... He also knew where the best LSD in the pacific northwest was. My friends of SE4L are as close as it gets these days... (and they don't have any LSD

It all reminds me of the book Animal Farm.

As long as I live, I will not allow the ETA or the NPA become the money suck Cert/Train of MS has become. They have an excuse... they are for profit ... I can think of another group that is not for profit and runs amok...

So wish me luck. I have huge dreams for my fellow USA kids and the ones coming up from the ranks born in other contries... We need to create a game plan. Otherwise will will see a zero-sum game that will become war.

Sorry for the long winded and probably too public soul-bearning post.

It is the high-level view of an MIS/IS/IT guy who entered with a a 4-bit (nibble) main frame (GE-225) with a max memory that is now cannot run the video card....

how the tech changes... the people do not... :-/
Tcat

flyted

I am a member of ETA and they have become cash cows with the marketing of some of their cert's and rollovers. To rollover the A+ or Net+ means absolutely nothing except more money in their pockets! You get no extra privileges, no more status, nothing. You already paid for the test and the cert and now you're going to pay someone else to rename a cert you already have? ETA has simply gotten away from trying to improve the industry and now mostly wants $$$$$ above all else. All this huge revenue increase ETA has experienceed has certainly not gone back to the benefit of members. Its being run more like a paper-mill now. You simply gain nothing by doing a rollover except make Dick Glass even richer.

TeKniques

flyted wrote:

I am a member of ETA and they have become cash cows with the marketing of some of their cert's and rollovers. To rollover the A+ or Net+ means absolutely nothing except more money in their pockets! You get no extra privileges, no more status, nothing. You already paid for the test and the cert and now you're going to pay someone else to rename a cert you already have? ETA has simply gotten away from trying to improve the industry and now mostly wants $$$$$ above all else. All this huge revenue increase ETA has experienceed has certainly not gone back to the benefit of members. Its being run more like a paper-mill now. You simply gain nothing by doing a rollover except make Dick Glass even richer.

I got an idea

You don't have to do the rollover

For those that want to ... leave them alone. If you want my honest opinion you sound like a disgruntled employee. So the company wants more members and to make more money, that's what they are supposed to do or they woudn't be in business.

Tcat

Nice selective parscing of data, flyted.

You claim you are "IN". You say nothing about what *you* are doing to be by geeks, for geeks. You slander and lie about Dick who gets zero dollars on this new effort.

And you make no suggestion of what to do with the fact that A+ will be $490 in Jan.

And you ingore the collective efforts of attempting to make certification an affordable concept for the planet.

Given such a bunch of baloney in so few words sprinkled with out right lies, I think you really work for CompTIA !

Tcat

Done deal.

Thanks to Barry Sellers of the NPA, and other folks...

We have vetted out a whole series of roll overs due to the extremely popular concept of rolling over expen$ive certifications to a non-profit that opens you up to Fiber, Bio-tech, or whatever floats your boat!

While I am in no way slighting all the hard work from the folks at SE4L, Barry really helped (a lot) in confirming the level of expertise tested in other certifications. Thanks dude.

The list we all worked was extensive. The only one NOT yet vetted is
Apple Help Desk certification. I'm working on it. All the other Apple tests for their functional equal to MCSE or CNE are vetted!

So is MCP (that was a witch with all those offerings)!
Novell
Cisco
Planet 3
LPI

and on an on.

We found enough networking to map over for the MCP/MCSD track too!

Give us a few days to work on expanding study material offerings for this expanded set of options. For example, you are rolling a LPI, and you want study materials for Cisco as part of the deal.

Expanding out study materials will probably come in phases. Oh yeah! For a small group, maybe the best news! We will have a study guide for upgrading your CST to a CET shortly! To become a CET Jr. or a CET Sr. you will have to take the ETA-I.ORG electronics test. Motorola is also requiring this test but they are rolling over some wireless tests from other vendor for your Motorola cert

Please don't ask me "when..." I am not in charge of how fast other people can get things done. I can say a Whole Lot of People are behind the idea of affordable certifications that can run the gamet from Bio-Medical to FCC licencing.

supertechCETma

flyted wrote:

You simply gain nothing by doing a rollover except make Dick Glass even richer.

You have no idea how ridiculous that statement sounds and if you knew Dick Glass, you would know how insulting that statement is. You really showed your ass on this one.

flyted

[post removed by Webmaster]

Webmaster

Ok... we just reached our maximum level of nonsense for this week...

@flyted: You're free to share your opinion about the rollover option or any other cert vendor, but you are just insulting individuals now.

While you may not have mentioned supertechCETma, you are addressing everyone as being 'a bunch of blind followers', which is an insult to our visitors and/or those who went for the rollover option. And who are smart enough to make up their own mind and do some research about ETA and what they stand for, and decide for their own whether it's worth their money.

One of the forum rules we value most is treating other members with respect and keep discussions on a professional level. This includes Tcat, who earned his stripes in this industry long before there the rollover became an option.

We are very strict when it comes to shameless self-promotion in our forums, even our paying advertisers are not allowed to post. But it should be obvious that the purpose of this topic is to 'advertise' the rollover option in the first place. Advertise as in 'presenting' the option, informing people about the availability of this option, nobody is pushing you or anyone else.

I'm going to clean up this topic in the next couple of days to ensure it retains its function. It's become quite large already with just the information that 'is' important for people to base their decision on. I will continue to clean it up, and update the first page accordingly so new information can be found without going through lots of pages including the above, and people can continue to make up their own mind just as they would with any other certification.

btw, if you want to bash someone for cheating people out of their money, go find a company that sells braindumps to pick on. There's where the money goes that is not invested back into the IT / IT cert industry.

oldbarney

Tcat, a question for you. May be a bit on the obvious side, but here goes.

I'm enrolled in a regionally-accredited CIS masters program at a state university. Aside from research methods, two programming, two networking, two database and a systems analysis class are included in the degree plan. Is it safe to say that classes from this program satisfy the ETA-I requirement for continuing education?

Should I forward ETA-I a copy of the transcripts to verify the continuing ed requirement?

Haven't signed up for the CompTIA to ETA-I conversion yet. Plan on ordering next week.

I appreciate the info you've provided us so far in this thread. Thanks!

supertechCETma

if I may...

I have little doubt that technology courses on the post graduate level will surely satisfy any continueing education requirements.

You should have no qualms about submitting them. Accreditation pretty well pre-qualifys.

always nice to hear from a fellow Texan.

Tcat

Since you we're answered while I did a deeply needed battery recharge... two points...

1) SuperTech weighs in here it is the clone of me... old man whom has been around the block many times and knows where the cracks are.

A) ETA, unlike many other certs, is meeting ISO (the folks who brought your osi model) and other standards. While Apple/Cisco are meeting these standards, CompTIA and MS are NOT.

There are other standards ETA follows you will find in compliance as well...

Now please forgive this COF (Certified Old Fart) for making this clarification.

(1) If you got your manual for being a computer operator for your mainframe with a max of 8 Kilobytes of memory, including the GEOS (General Electric Operating System) or functional equal I will automagically defer to your better memory...

Other than that I want to state... your current industry certs say, SCO ACE or MS MCSE are only as valid as the winds of favor...

They do not follow standards beyond the winds of economy, not ISO standards...

This comes from a dude who drank the cool-aid of "Vines" the then current Fed standard. Novell didn't exist and MS was a stand alone system...

Be careful... ETA follows the ISO model which really is a very simple check beyond you still have a pulse... produce a badge for a trade show that isn't about bass fishing.... sign off you we're there.

Cheap --- slimly... you can be. Beats I'm A+ (on the FAT MAC with 512 KB of ram)

nel

how credible are the cst and cnst?

Tcat

There are several ways to interpret this question. I will address with the angles I can think of, and if I have not covered it: please re-state the question.

From a technical perspective. Several steps more aimed at Reality than A+ and Network+. Network+ is pretty good. CNST is good too when comparing to reality. (By nature, ALL tests are somewhat dated, or artificial). Goes with the process...

A+ is pretty far removed from reality, and becoming more so with the mandatory 2007 fragmentation. CST is getting a big refresh now. It was decided last week, NO DOS based Windows anymore. This was not an easy decision, and that is the decision. So no Win 9.x/Me questions.

The other way I can interpret your question is popularity. In the military world ETA-I is very popular. In the civilian HR world, it is still below the radar and that is changing rapidly. It will be very much on HR's radar in 2007 when A+ help desk is $490 in test fees alone. ETA-I has a combo of CST and Customer Support Specialist (CSS) for a combined test fee set of $150.

If you have a different angle you want an answer to, ask.

And again. We are asking you to support a group that is by geeks for geeks. Compare the test fees to anyone else for yourself. I'm asking you to get your CST and/or CNST not just to support an org that stands for US and is affordable. I'm appealing to your greed by making sure you get A WHOLE LOT of study materials for free. CompTIA and MS stuff are up with more coming. I'm working on the Linux, Apple, Cisco stuff...

So even if today nobody had heard of the ETA-I, you still win with lots of on going educational material beyond what the ETA has created.

bighornsheep

I have A+, and MCP on 70-271, I will be getting 70-272 soon to get the MCDST.

The rollover option for MCDST says its 104 for CST and CNST, is that BOTH or either ONE?

Cause A+ -> CST is 49
and Network+ -> CNST is 69...so that 118.

Does that mean they consider MCDST more 'valuable' than A+ AND Network+?

Also...what happens if I dont (or forget) to maintain the membership. Do the cert(s) become invalid? Will I not be 'allowed' to have those creditials on my resume?

Thanks in advance.
Cheers,

Tcat

It's a learning thing.

When we discovered some want both CST and CNST @ the same time, we created a SKU that creates both certs to be shipped in one box. That box stuff (postage, etc) cost real money.

I don't know if anyone has noticed that your stuff comes laying flat in a real box and your pins (s) are not bouncing around. That is real time and money. By creating the CST/CNST in one box, that cut serious costs.

If you forget to renew your membership in the ETA-I.ORG, you are technically not CST until you "come back". I did lapse once due to the manual overhead @ HQ. We'll be working on that shortly.

Remember to meet ISO rules, you must put in 10 hours a year improving your mind. Going to a trade show, etc... I plan on improving that DOC process too....

bighornsheep

So MCDST does rollover to BOTH CST and CNST?

Also...when I do the rollover, will I be eligible to take the CETa and become CET?

mmhmm...I'm starting to be interested with this more and more...

Tcat

Yes. The DST candidate (that is successful) has demo'ed the functional equal to A+ and Network+. So you can do both, and they come in one box (if you order that way).

The CET.

We CANNOT roll a PhD in electronics. Motorola is demanding all their techs pass the written test in electronics. So you gotta (and me) gotta take the CET test in basic electronics. Just remember Ohm and that story about Violet and your good to go. Then your CST becomes a CET with a computer specialty.

bighornsheep

Tcat wrote:

We CANNOT roll a PhD in electronics. Motorola is demanding all their techs pass the written test in electronics. So you gotta (and me) gotta take the CET test in basic electronics. Just remember Ohm and that story about Violet and your good to go. Then your CST becomes a CET with a computer specialty.

the basic electronics test is the associate cet (CETa) from ETA-I right?

Tcat

That is correct.

I *think* it is $75. in the USA

bighornsheep

Are ETA exams (CETa) available in Canada? The test administator posted on the website, is he/she the one responsible for the exam?

Tcat

In a word, yes!

The ETA-I accepts libraries, fire houses, etc for test center admin. They mail the test to the site, care of You. They sit you down, you open your test and hand it back when you are done. They mail it in for grading.

The cool news is 14% of your test fees go to the local site supporting you.

Canada is sorta a big country so look at this for a list of a city near you.

http://www.eta-sda.org/cgi-bin/db/ca.cgi?st=Outside%20U.S.

If not close, ask a local govt. agency to fill out the 1 page application to be a test center. The up front cost is just faxing in the form.

supertechCETma

The librarian at my local city/county library has proctored exams for me.

bighornsheep

I'm FINALLY MCDST...
I want to do the rollover to CST and CNST...do I need to wait for my certificate?

Can I use the transcript sharing code?

Tcat

bighornsheep wrote:

I'm FINALLY MCDST...
I want to do the rollover to CST and CNST...do I need to wait for my certificate?

Can I use the transcript sharing code?

1st ! Congrats!

Yes indeed! I know it is working for CompTIA, Cicso and MS. I have not tested for Apple. I was going for that but with 10.5 and bootcamp due out, like next week... I'm going to blow off my I-Mac and load fresh 10.5 and study for the 10.5 tests. Apple expired out like Cisco after 2 year...

A related question for our esteemed members.

When setting up the expansion, I on purpose avoided SCO ACE. The fact of the matter is I'm ticked off at SCO suing IBM and others saying "you did something wrong. No, we're not going to tell you what that was."

The judge preciding the case really gave SCO a tounge lashing over that. IMHO, SCO doesn't have a case.

After considerable thought, I may have made a mistake, targeting people when I should be ticked at a corp. I realize there are less ACE's than Apple certified people... but it isn't about numbers.

So should I go to all the parties and allow ACE's to roll over? They could probably use the educational materials that roll overs are given so they can find jobs when SCO has finished circling the drain

TheShadow

I don't see SCO ever having creditability again or ever rising in power. It was a desperate move for a desperate company that had stopped innovating. With their case gutted the vultures will move in and pick the bones. In less than 3 years stock price has dropped from over $20 to $2 and change. Doesn't it fall off the board if it drops below $2 for a few weeks?

SCO ACE might get converted to something else by someone. So ask yourself how much time do you have and how much effort do you want to invest in it. Might not be worth your time Tcat, while I know that you try, you can't save everyone.

Tcat

Last I checked, you get delisted below $1. With inflation, it might be 2 now.

Thanks for the input. I'm sure as hell not worried about SCO. I am concerned with the geeks. If I can do it with 3 phone calls, totalling an hour, I'll make it happen. Other then that, I'll take the time/energy/money towards casting a wider net.

(Getting MX citizens CST/CNST at 2-2.5 days MX wages is a Huge Goal). My thinking is there will be less crush @ the border if people can make a living @ home. They had an election here but the race was won by <1% of the votes. Legal challanges have been put in play. It has frozen the govt. here for now, which is freezing my efforts on that front.

<Contary to popular belief the northern part of MX is not the Frito Bandio with six guns blazing>. I'm in B.C. (Tijuana). Technology here is *huge*. Yet labor is still cheap enough for shops to do circuit level repair of dead parts. There is one 60 feet north of me.

bighornsheep

I just got the rollover to CST and CNST.

I didnt get any emails telling me to send my certificate, but I emailed both study and eta [at] studyexam4less.com with my transcript id and access code. Hopefully it all works out for me.

...waiting...for my certificates...