Offers versus career path

Chadius

A little background:

Did desktop support for a few years, left that company for a Senior Desktop Support role with a government contractor. The first 6 months I work for a sub contractor of the main contractor, then convert over to the real contracting company. I know that sounds weird. That conversion is happening now. They made me an offer that I like and was going to accept but.....

In the same time period, I have been interviewing with a data center in my area. The job is Support Center Engineer. Wichita has few opportunities like this, and I eventually would like to be a network or systems engineer. But their final offer is 10k less than my new offer in the position I am already in.

My Senior role: not adding to my skills, no OT, no promotion in my area, can study for hours a day, contract could go away if the employers decide we aren't needed. (meaning me, since I am the only contractor here) good benefits-it's a fortune 100 company

Data center role: fits career path that I want, makes money tight with bills etc, they are known to promote from within, with help pay for certs past what I get at WGU, benefits are ok-kind of expensive, lots of vacation, no study time except lunch, they want me to move almost immediately into a tier2 position after a few months and I am used to their way of doing things, pay will be revisited in 6 months after hire

Note: There are no chances of me moving to another area. Wife and kids said follow my career dreams, but do it in this area here. lol

I think my current role is pricing me out of this market. Because other similar positions, don't pay as much as I make. So going to a data center, NOC, etc and having to start a little lower on pay and role, seems to be something that will happen regardless.

So do I bite the bullet now and take the cut to further my career or continue with my schooling, certs, and the gravy train and do it later? (Note: I would still work on school and certs at either position, just one has unlimited study time)

My wife would be on board with me staying, because the money is more than I have ever made. I would be up to that amount in a year or so at the other place. (especially if I get my degree finished along with certs)

Also, if I leave again, it's would be my 2nd new job in 6 months. First one was 15 years.

ITSpectre

Chadius wrote: »

My Senior role: not adding to my skills, no OT, no promotion in my area, can study for hours a day, contract could go away if the employers decide we aren't needed. (meaning me, since I am the only contractor here) good benefits-it's a fortune 100 company

Data center role: fits career path that I want, makes money tight with bills etc, they are known to promote from within, with help pay for certs past what I get at WGU, benefits are ok-kind of expensive, lots of vacation, no study time except lunch, they want me to move almost immediately into a tier2 position after a few months and I am used to their way of doing things, pay will be revisited in 6 months after hire

I would take the Data center role. It fits what you want... money may be tight BUT they will promote from within and in 6 months pay with be revisited. It is easy to get comfortable in a good position, but it sounds like the new job will be better then the job you have now. Also they will help pay for certs. The Benefits may be high, but in 6 months you can get a raise.

It sounds to me you maxed out your time and skills at position 1 and there is no way to move up so you are stuck where you are.... being stuck is never a good thing.

joemc3

Desktop support has a shorter ceiling. Kansas does not scream the land of opportunity. If they are going to revisit pay in 6 months and it aligns with your career goals take it. However, be weary of any promises an employer makes. I to took a step back in pay a little over a year ago. I used to be a shipping and receiving supervisor. I went to a MSP and took 50 calls a day. Six months later I was in the data center. Six months after that I am now a Senior Project Manager. The Senior part is a little misguided, but I will take the title.

ITSpectre

Chadius wrote: »

Note: There are no chances of me moving to another area. Wife and kids said follow my career dreams, but do it in this area here. lol

Understandable. BUT at the same time.... if your area or areas around you lack opportunity you may have to move closer to IT jobs.... also what if the company you work for decides to move your job elsewhere? Im just putting it out there that following your dreams may involve moving to a different place if/when that may/may not happen.

I live in VA but may be making the move to Georgia to follow my dreams

Chadius

Thanks both of you for the information. I will say the data center gig is a glorified help desk position. Only on phone, over email, or remote into clients computers. If I need to be in person, they have a team of people for that.

I haven't received either offer yet, so I am still waiting. I know my current roles offer, because they told me what it was over the phone.

Chadius

True. I told my wife: pick. Pick a metro type area you would be ok moving closer to. Because CCNA and higher jobs are plentiful in Dallas, Kansas City, Austin areas. (keeping it Midwest to visit family etc.)

If my current position is canceled, they can try to move me elsewhere, but then there would have to be an opening, and I would need to meet the requirements. One of our biggest areas is in VA. lol

ITSpectre

Chadius wrote: »

True. I told my wife: pick. Pick a metro type area you would be ok moving closer to. Because CCNA and higher jobs are plentiful in Dallas, Kansas City, Austin areas. (keeping it Midwest to visit family etc.)

If my current position is canceled, they can try to move me elsewhere, but then there would have to be an opening, and I would need to meet the requirements. One of our biggest areas is in VA. lol

Small world... im in VA!

Chadius

Have you heard of a company called GDIT?

ITSpectre

Chadius wrote: »

Have you heard of a company called GDIT?

I have not ever heard about them! I will have to take a look at them and see what they have to offer

joneno

GDIT is huge in DMV if you live around the DMV. They're a major defense contractor.

Chadius

That is the company I have been employed with for 6 months, thru a sub contractor. Now I will be with them for real. (If I choose to take the offer) I like them. It's kind of weird being the only employee in this area. (besides the Air Force Base) But if they stopped our contract for some reason, all the jobs around here need Secret or higher clearance. I am not sure I could get that, plus all the positions are senior level. (at least the postings say that)

The other place (data center) has location here, and 4-5 other locations around the Midwest. (i.e. KC, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, etc) They call themselves: A Full Spectrum Data Center and IT Infrastructure Partner.

Chadius

I thought about finishing my CCNA (testing for the second test in late July) and then focusing on Microsoft/Linux side of things. We seem to get a lot of Systems Administrator job postings in my area. I think that would be called a pivot in my strategy. lol

techfiend

Dead end desktop support to a lower paid help desk with potential for promotion seems like a step back. I would stay where you are, finish wgu and apply for admin and engineer positions. After getting a wide range of certs the degree and VCP-DCV is what really helped me move up.

Have you ever spent hours in a datacenter? It may seem like an interesting environment with all the racked hardware. In reality it's mind numbingly loud and cold. Jackets and ear plugs or phones are a must. I'd get sick of working in a datacenter within weeks.

Cyberscum

Data center for sure. Always follow where you want to go, don't let anyone else or thing choose that path for you.

...don't be anothet IT hooker

ITSpectre

techfiend wrote: »

Jackets and ear plugs or phones are a must. I'd get sick of working in a datacenter within weeks.

PERFECT!!!! get to listen to study materials AND work! Dude the data center is not that bad.... Ive worked in one before. it is loud yes but if you have headphones you will be fine.

Go with your gut and do what YOU wanna do. In the end remember this fact no matter WHAT you end up doing

"A happy wife is a HAPPY life"
"Hell hath no fury than a woman scorned"

Chadius

Our data center on site is pretty loud. We have two industrial size AC units blowing like crazy. But we almost never have any problems, changes, and any upgrades are done quickly.

I haven't heard from the datacenter job. I emailed them today. The lady said last Wednesday, that a offer was almost ready for me. I haven't received the one at the place I am at either.

Where ever I go, I'd like the work to reflect my certs is possible. I don't want to have a CCNA etc, and not ever use the skills. Or a MCSA 2012 and never touch anything AD etc.

No IT hookering for me.

And yes, the wife is definitely the one to keep happy. More expendable income would definitely do that.

Chadius

So get this s#$%. The data center job, that was offering me a position, told me some vp wanted to speak with me. Probably because i was asking for about 4k more than they offered. I knew when he was calling, but at that same time we had a emergency webex bridge call. So i ran outside into 105 degree heat index heat. This vp starts immediately asking me all kinds of tech questions. They range from what to do if a user says they logged into outlook and their calendar is empty to what is a lun in vmware. Between me being un aware of the tech questions coming my way, to the heat boiling my brain, i went brain dead on some of the questions. Like litetally had no idea until i cooled off inside.

They just called me (the hr lady), and told me they aren't going to offer me the position now. The vp guy said he wanted a person who is stronger technically than i portrayed in our phone call earlier. So that sucks. I told him multiple times during the call, that I'm dying out in the heat, and I'm having a hard time concentrating. Plus I'm dodging other employees in the parking lot on break. So they won't hear me.

I emailed all of them, explaining that wasn't a good indicator of my skills. But that will go on deaf ears. That was my 4th interview.

So i guess for now I'm staying where I'm at. I'll keep trying places more on line with what i want to do career wise.

Thanks for your input everyone.

Chadius

After sleeping on it, I think I should stay away from help desk type positions, even if they are a path into the career I want. Because the pay drop will always be an issue, due to how much I make now, and that I have a family.

So my question is: Do I continue to add on the certifications that will get me where I want to go? (i.e. CCNP or MSCE if I go that route) or just keep doing what I am doing, applying when something comes up?

I made a list of all the Cisco partners, data centers, etc. All of them ask for experienced network engineers. Almost never, does any Jr positions show up around here. (except for software people) I only know of one NOC. But they pay their people like the one that just turned me down. Should I stay away from applying at those type positions? Should I scrub my resume and post it? lol Just wondering if I am on the right path to anything other than desktop support. I have been messing around with Linux versions at home, in my lab. Seems to be a good part of IT to get into. (Linux admin)

Any help would be appreciated.

techfiend

I couldn't agree more with staying away from help desk and desktop support positions because it's regression.

Focus on the degree if you're enrolled. That will be the most cost-effective. Certify your experience if you can. If you are only getting desktop experience focus on getting broader experience by asking questions to the friendlier colleagues.

reload@

Find out what you want to do and go in that direction even if it means taking a pay cut. I took a massive pay cut to get to where I am now. I blew my savings and racked up some credit card debt, but it worked out in the end. NOCs may not pay well but it's a step towards Network Engineering if that's what you want to do. I was in the NOC a little over three years ago making 40k. I've tripled my salary since then.

ITSpectre

I agree with you on avoiding help desk jobs. But where I am thats all that is hiring unless you have a lot of exp and a degree.

Chadius

I applied for a NOC technician position today. The place I applied at, has never called me for an interview, follow up, etc ever. lol So we'll see. I'm in a weird position. GDIT says I am a Senior Desktop Support Tech. USPS says I am a IT Client Support Specialist. Which do I put on my resume and why?

Techfiend: So when it comes to anything network related (besides troubleshooting in house), is ran by a team out of state. (cisco configs, etc) Here is a snippet of what I do:

Configure, image, and deploy desktop environments
Ensure continuous operation of computer and telecommunication systemsDocumented all issues through a ticket tracking system (Service Now)
Provide end user support, including troubleshooting of hardware and software
Support mobile phones, tablets, and other mobile devices
Deploy and image desktops using Remote Installation Services
Light group policy and active directory management


So with that datacenter job that turned me down, was called a Support Center Engineer, but in reality was a tier 1 help desk position. (with some tier 2 eventually) This NOC position I applied for today, is the first one I have seen hit the interwebs in over a year or two. And those jobs were called IT application support people at a NOC. I want to be a Network Engineer. It just isn't panning out opportunity wise. Going past my CCNA to an CCNP, would look suspect if I am not in an environment gaining those type of skills. (imo) But yes, getting the degree is on track. Should be done next year sometime.

Chadius

Also, if it wasn't clear, I am a GDIT employee working at the USPS. (care center environment, 400-500 users for my site)

Chadius

Wow that was quick. Three hours later, the company (Koch) turned me down for being a candidate for the NOC position. The way that place responds so fast, makes me feel like I barred from employment there. Because every job for 3 years, get turned down in hours.

ITSpectre

Chadius wrote: »

So get this s#$%. The data center job, that was offering me a position, told me some vp wanted to speak with me. Probably because i was asking for about 4k more than they offered. I knew when he was calling, but at that same time we had a emergency webex bridge call. So i ran outside into 105 degree heat index heat. This vp starts immediately asking me all kinds of tech questions. They range from what to do if a user says they logged into outlook and their calendar is empty to what is a lun in vmware. Between me being un aware of the tech questions coming my way, to the heat boiling my brain, i went brain dead on some of the questions. Like litetally had no idea until i cooled off inside.

They just called me (the hr lady), and told me they aren't going to offer me the position now. The vp guy said he wanted a person who is stronger technically than i portrayed in our phone call earlier. So that sucks. I told him multiple times during the call, that I'm dying out in the heat, and I'm having a hard time concentrating. Plus I'm dodging other employees in the parking lot on break. So they won't hear me.

I emailed all of them, explaining that wasn't a good indicator of my skills. But that will go on deaf ears. That was my 4th interview.

So i guess for now I'm staying where I'm at. I'll keep trying places more on line with what i want to do career wise.

Thanks for your input everyone.

QUESTION!!!!

With the outlook question that was asked of you.... when the user logged into outlook and the calendar was empty... did the entries still show in the to do bar???

Also I feel your pain. I recently had a interview where I drew a blank on many questions that I should have known.... especially the basic linux questions.

Chadius

Yes they were in the to do bar.

I have drawn blank before. But this situation bothered me, because I had went thru two technical interviews prior, in person, in a air conditioned environment. The last one (because I asked for more money then allowed for the position), I was caught off guard and located in the middle of a parking lot (not near my car), with 105°F heat. Example: the guy asked me, if you could do anything in life, what would you do? I was flustered, hot, sweaty, and said paint cars. In my brain, I am like wtf did I just say? He said really? I was like yea. Because I was done. Just sucks because they had an offer for me, ready for signing, then that happened. lol

ITSpectre

Chadius wrote: »

Yes they were in the to do bar.

I have drawn blank before. But this situation bothered me, because I had went thru two technical interviews prior, in person, in a air conditioned environment. The last one (because I asked for more money then allowed for the position), I was caught off guard and located in the middle of a parking lot (not near my car), with 105°F heat. Example: the guy asked me, if you could do anything in life, what would you do? I was flustered, hot, sweaty, and said paint cars. In my brain, I am like wtf did I just say? He said really? I was like yea. Because I was done. Just sucks because they had an offer for me, ready for signing, then that happened. lol

Right A perfect answer to the "What would you do" question that I learned is

"What I would do is work for your company moving up within it.... learning all I can while continuing to be an asset to the company."

DoubleNNs

You have a higher paying job that allows for studying. Keep the current job and continue studying. Finish that CCNA, improve your tech skills, and see if you can skip NOC/Data Center and go straight to an Admin role.

I find it harder to get into [core] Networking Administration than Systems Administration btw. <-- take that sentence for whatever you want.

Edit: Granted, I did a 1 year stint in a Data Center. Learned a ton and catapulted my career forward. I had less than a year of experience when I started there however, and the 2 most important things I learned there were company politics and the value in documentation + automation. Even tho my data center experience was great, I'm sure being an Admin in the same environment as opposed to a racker/stacker would have been even more enlightening.

stlsmoore

techfiend wrote: »

Have you ever spent hours in a datacenter? It may seem like an interesting environment with all the racked hardware. In reality it's mind numbingly loud and cold. Jackets and ear plugs or phones are a must. I'd get sick of working in a datacenter within weeks.

I personally feel the same way, I like data center work just hate being inside of actual DC facilities. Along with being loud and cold, I get tired of being in an environment with no windows. Especially during those 12+ hour days in a DC.

Chadius

Double nns: that is my what my wife said to do. Granted she has zero knowledge of how IT is or how the experience vs positions are. She just thought me studying mostly at work, was a win for family time. So say i finish my degree, and get my ccna in July, and my Linux+.... Would that be enough to apply for admin positions?

My buddy told me to finish it the degree and ccna, then immediately start in on my mcsa. He said our area is deeper for systems guys, based in Linux and Microsoft. This coming from a guy with a ton of Microsoft certs and a lot of citrix certs.

I know that mentally I'm just tired of the desktop support roles. Lol been at it for awhile. Not really learning anything amazing, except for what I'm learning in school or for certs. (In a lab environment)

techfiend

I'd put the WGU degree top priority. After that focus on VCP6-DCV with dreamspark's voucher via WGU. IMO it's THE cert to have to move on from help desk. Not only does the demand greatly outweigh the supply it involves networking, servers, storage and light security to get exposure to move on to what you really desire. It's much more attainable than MCSA and better ROI.

At work try to get in on virtualization, if possible and gently push to do more on the server side.

Certs and degrees get you the interview. Personality, confidence and experience get you the position. Don't be concerned about years of experience listed, it's mostly hokem.