how to move into project mgmt? (uk specific, well certs anyway)

chickenlicken09chickenlicken09 Senior MemberMember Posts: 534 ■■■■□□□□□□
Hi Folks,

I have recently just completed the Prince2 foundation cert with the intention of trying to move in the direction of project mgmt.
Does anyone have any tips on trying to get into this area? I don't have any PM exp so that's the biggest hurdle! Can most of it be learned on the job?
Any other certs I should continue with?

Thanks

Comments

  • UncleBUncleB Member Posts: 417
    Price2 teaches you the framework of a project - ie what needs doing when, inputs, outputs, stakeholders, measures of success, quality etc.

    As you have already sat/passed the exam, I recommend you sit the Prince2 Practitioner exam as it is the same subject matter, just more of a real world application.

    On its own it will not give you the skills to manage a project, so you need a more specific course like PMP, but that requires you to have thousands of hours of auditable project experience to even take the exam, so you may want to sit the CAPM which is aimed more at entry level applicants.

    PMI-Agile is a sort of half way house, but if we are talking about certificate recognition to get a job, PMP is the one to have.

    There are a number of other project certs out there, but I rarely see a job specify CompTIA Project+ or any of the other wannabe certs.

    To get started, can you tell us what you do and the sort of company you work for? The advice on what doors to knock on will be tailored around this.

    thanks
    Iain
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Depends, software and data projects, I would go with something agile or similar. Infrastructure or other non app dev projects the PRINCE2 Practitioner. The foundation has relatively low return, even though it's very simple to obtain and the cost is so-so. Since you know you want project management and have the foundation certification get the practitioner. I don't believe you need real world experience to meet the requirements.
  • chickenlicken09chickenlicken09 Senior Member Member Posts: 534 ■■■■□□□□□□
    thanks folks, I often see people on linked in with PM titles and only holding the foundation cert, their work history has very little PM experience also.
    I guess a lot of it is being able to spoof and talk the talk! I will look at the practitioner cert also, not sure how much harder it is considering the foundation is pretty easy stuff.
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    icon_lol.gif Can we really even call foundation a certification? Just kidding, but still........ It was very easy, I would put it right up there with Security +. Honestly I don't even list it on my resume.

    Foundations is nothing more than a primer to teach you the vocabulary. Very similar to ITIL.
  • anhtran35anhtran35 Member Posts: 466
    Cert wise? ITIL; PMP; SCRUM.
    Experience? Fastest way is to be a Project Coordinator; Team Lead; Help Desk Manager; etc...that will give you experience in the management sector which will lead to some projects which will allow you take the PMP.
  • Moldygr33nb3anMoldygr33nb3an Member Posts: 241
    What antran35 said.

    I went from Help Desk Manager to Jr. PM, then to Sr. I would recommend studying for the PMP and taking either the CAPM or PMP - but study for the PMP. I know someone mentioned the criteria for PMP, however, I personally know people who had zero PM experience and hours; did the bootcamp and received their PMP cert. It's random auditing. I applied for my PMP and did not get audited. I have still yet to take it, however.
    Current: OSCP

    Next: CCNP (R&S and Sec)

    Follow my OSCP Thread!
  • chickenlicken09chickenlicken09 Senior Member Member Posts: 534 ■■■■□□□□□□
    yeah the prince2 is prob better for the UK though as opposed to the PMP for the US
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    @eddo1 no doubt about it, PRINCE2 > PMP in Europe, in fact probably globally except for the US. Good luck on your quest.

    @Moldy - I would think going from a help desk manager position to a PM position would be a step backwards. PM's from my experience are usually transition roles into a people manager role.
  • chickenlicken09chickenlicken09 Senior Member Member Posts: 534 ■■■■□□□□□□
    thanks, seems project co-ordinator is the role to look out for. Only thing is project co-ordinator roles seems to look for a lot of experience also, cant win icon_smile.gif
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Just curious why just stuck on Project Coordinator positions. Project Manager, Scheduler, Analyst etc, are other titles that generally do the same role.

    P.S. in the states most of the time PM's are glorified coordinators :)
  • OctalDumpOctalDump Member Posts: 1,722
    There's a whole collection of PM related certifications from Axelos (the Prince2 people). Prince2 Practitioner is sort of the minimum if you actually hope to manage projects. The Foundation is really good for anyone who might be involved in Prince2 projects (SMEs, Senior Users/Suppliers, Executive, BAs, support etc), but you need more than that to really manage a project.

    Axelos has a mapping of their certifications to career levels. Which can help you understand where they think these things fit.

    If you get really serious with Prince2, there's also the Professional level certification - but that's not really for someone trying to get into the field, more like someone who has overdosed on the kool aid.

    There's also Program and Portfolio management, which are more senior roles, but are useful to have knowledge of even at the beginnings of your career - similar to how a Subject Matter Expert benefits from knowing Prince2 Foundation. Axelos offers MSP (Managing Successful Programmes) and MoP (Management of Portfolios), along with P30, Mov, and MoR.

    The PMBOK is quite complementary to Prince2 and goes into a bit more depth in some areas (finance, people), so CAPM or PMP isn't a bad thing to explore. I think some of the terminology is different, which can make the exams challenging, but the actual knowledge is still very valuable.

    I think it's also a very good idea to have a bit of breadth in your toolset, so having some Agile skills as well - it is possible to make a happy marriage between Prince2 and various flavours of agile. The APMG Agile certification or Certified Scrum Master are good options.

    If you are going to work as a PM in IT land, then there's good chunks of ITIL which are very useful also. Service Design and Service Transition; or Planning Protection and Optimisation, and Release Control and Validation.

    There's also the option to take a diploma or graduate certificate or similar in Project Management, which generally also include a fair bit more of the business skills eg finance, managing people, writing, 'selling' along with the pure PM stuff, which generally includes a bit on various methods and also covers portfolio and program management (not necessarily in depth). Just do your research, because you could end up paying a lot of money for a glorified Prince2 Practitioner course.
    2017 Goals - Something Cisco, Something Linux, Agile PM
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Overdosed on the Kool Aid. LOVE IT!

    Personally from my perspective certification aren't required but I won't go there......

    With that said the few PM's I know who have the PRINCE 2, all have the practitioner. If you are dead set on getting into project management get the Practitoner certification and call it a day.....

    PS great post from Octal

    PS x 2 I possess both the prince 2 foundation and CAPM, both forced on to me from management and I can tell you from experience it's better to deep dive in one that dabble in both. Of course this is just my opinion...... PMP or PRINCE2 Practitioner > CAPM AND PRINCE2 Foundation
  • Moldygr33nb3anMoldygr33nb3an Member Posts: 241
    @Moldy - I would think going from a help desk manager position to a PM position would be a step backwards. PM's from my experience are usually transition roles into a people manager role.

    It depends on the organizational structure. In my case, I took a pay cut to work as a Jr. PM for the potential promotion to a Sr. with a pay raise. Fortunately the method to my madness rewarded me two years later.

    My days as PM are numbered, however. The lack of hands-on is driving me crazy.
    Current: OSCP

    Next: CCNP (R&S and Sec)

    Follow my OSCP Thread!
  • OctalDumpOctalDump Member Posts: 1,722
    Personally from my perspective certification aren't required but I won't go there......

    Yeah, I'd tend to agree. What's important is the skills and knowledge and a proven ability to put them into practice. It's only at the really pointy end that certifications test the ability to put them into practice - things like CCAr or ITIL Master (or Prince2 Professional) - which assume substantial experience at a high level.

    But that's the catch 22 of trying to move into a new role: you need to give people a reason to take a gamble on you without having the experience.
    2017 Goals - Something Cisco, Something Linux, Agile PM
  • chickenlicken09chickenlicken09 Senior Member Member Posts: 534 ■■■■□□□□□□
    not stuck on project coordinator roles I guess I'm really just looking to see what the entry level titles are.
  • chickenlicken09chickenlicken09 Senior Member Member Posts: 534 ■■■■□□□□□□
    thanks some good info, if I do the prince2 practitioner I will prob go the self study route.
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