Is This Fair?

greg9891

I am currently working as an Intern on a one year contract, they have the option to make my position permanent if they want but to put a long story short instead of being an intern that's learning the position. I am instead thrust into situations myself to do work unsupervised. My boss went away for a 2 weeks and left me to manage the entire site 170 +employees. I have to manage Cisco devices, telephone system, supervise Contractors that are currently onsite doing an Expansion project and that's not the users reporting various stuff that can and will go wrong on a day to day basis.

I knew that he did this because he know I can do the work but i'm on an intern salary and there no way I should be left in this position. All I can say is that I hope they make my position permanent after this because my internship ends In September. I don't know how I fell about the company getting me to run the whole site on an Intern salary. Hope it pays off!:

TechGromit

I guess it does suck having so much responsibility for crap wages, but even if you are not offered full time employment, the experience is invaluable. What intern applicant can put on there resume they managed an entire companies location for weeks without supervision, not many I wager.

I guess there's two ways you can look at this. He's testing you to see if you can handle things without him around, if you succeed, he'll happily offer you a job. On the other hand maybe he knows management is not going to extend you an offer and is trying to squeeze a vacation in before your no longer around to help.

On the other hand I hope nothing blows up you can't address. He might not be the boss anymore if management learns he left an intern in charge while he went on vacation.

NetworkNewb

Just depends how you want to look at the situation and deal with it. Can be upset that they might be taking advantage of you or you can happy that as an intern you getting a lot of responsibility. Which can help ALOT in an interview for your next position when you move up. Most interns I've seen get pretty crappy and remedial work.

dhay13

i say good for you. this can either help you in getting hired on and maybe demanding a hire wage or it adds to your experience and is a great 'tell me about a time in your career when you had to overcome a situation' story in future interviews.

Techytach

Just be happy you are getting invaluable experience. Even if they don't hire you, it will make getting FTE way easier elsewhere.

It's far better that you are getting real work as an intern rather than being stuck somewhere doing nothing.

greg9891

I agree Techytach & TechGromit I have already started to update my resume with valuable info that I know will benefit me in general as an I.T professional. I manage our Cisco equipment, Install Apc rackmount power supplies, manage our Qnap and windows server 2012 environment, supervised multiple contractors at a time on various projects, maintain all supplies and inventory on site for I.T. equipment, inks and toners, ip phones ect. Maintain help desk system to deal with various computer and software issues from the users. troubleshoot Fiber and connectivity issues. and the list goes on.

TechGromit

I'm guessing this is a one guy shop, The IT staff to employees seems very high to me. I always wondered how 1 person shops handles vacations and sick time. You have to pay me a small fortune to put up with being oncall 24/7 all the time.

Plantwiz

Yes it is 'fair'.

You are gaining experience in a live situation and you have very little to offer. They obviously trust you, which is huge, but that does not mean they should pay you more because you are trustworthy. If things work out and you manage to keep things running, you'll have some leverage at this company or another down the road.

If you do not find the situation to your liking than up and quit as some many others would. Personally, I have always valued unique opportunities when I was young to prove myself and my ability.

While some on this board would also stay, there are far too many posts I read where folks gripe about being 'under paid' or 'under appreciated'. I'd say there are far too many young folks who have never truly been hungry and have too many jobs available.

ah, our first world problems....

greg9891

Plantwiz wrote: »

Yes it is 'fair'.

You are gaining experience in a live situation and you have very little to offer. They obviously trust you, which is huge, but that does not mean they should pay you more because you are trustworthy. If things work out and you manage to keep things running, you'll have some leverage at this company or another down the road.

If you do not find the situation to your liking than up and quit as some many others would. Personally, I have always valued unique opportunities when I was young to prove myself and my ability.

While some on this board would also stay, there are far too many posts I read where folks gripe about being 'under paid' or 'under appreciated'. I'd say there are far too many young folks who have never truly been hungry and have too many jobs available.

ah, our first world problems....

Well Said Plantwiz!

OctalDump

On the one hand, it's a lot of work for not enough money. On the other hand it's great experience that should make it much easier to get a proper job elsewhere if they don't want you permanent.

Start looking for other work now.

apr911

You are getting paid. As long as your pay is above minimum wage, than its "fair" and any "unfairness" in the situation is on you for failing to have negotiated a better title/position/rate/etc. From a legal perspective, I dont think your intern job can be classed as "exempt" thus allowing you to work more than 40 hours a week without getting paid overtime but Im not an employment law attorney so I dont know.

Now if you weren't getting paid, that'd be a different story. There was recently big press about all the "production interns" at the movie/tv studios who were basically doing the job of a show runner without pay. The courts recently ruled they were incorrectly and unfairly classed as interns for the purpose of not paying them.

I guess in that case, it had become so common place that the courts had to step in to improve the situation for all interns but I usually view the acceptance of a free vs paid internship in the same light as accepting a salary position with a lower salary.

I dont know that leaving or renegotiating is worth it. You mentioned it was an internship which to me indicates its a short term position of fixed length. You are gaining valuable experience which is the purpose of the internship and why some people do completely unpaid internships. Additionally, doing this job and doing it well so that you get a good review will open doors later when you seek that Full-Time Employment opportunity whereas cutting it short and/or getting a bad review will make your job hunt all that much more difficult.

If you do try to renegotiate, dont start your argument on fairness. It undermines the argument and make you look like a child as any child who ever argued "its not fair <parental ruling> because <friend>'s parents allow them to <different/modified parental ruling>" could show you.

Ultimately though the world is unfair. People will get higher salaries and/or promoted before you even when you are the better qualified candidate and a host of other things will happen that aren't "fair." If you go through life looking for fairness, you are in for a world and life of disappointment.

volfkhat

Disagree with some of the posts here.

Just because something is LEGAL, doesn't mean that it is Fair.

Your situation is most likely NOT fair.
In fact, it reeks of Exploitation.
(granted: i don't know what your "internship salary" is in terms of $$$, Nor do i know if you are working OVER 40 hours/week and NOT getting paid for it)

With that being said,
it sounds like you earned some crazy experience:

"... left me to manage the entire site 170 +employees. I have to manage Cisco devices, telephone system, supervise Contractors that are currently onsite doing an Expansion project"

Although, I guess it depends on your definition of the word, "manage" :]


My advice,
1) make sure your resume covers your internship responsibilities in detail.

2) Get some certifications.

I don't think You said what kind of job/role "you want".... but Looking at your signature:
the 70-680 is just a desktop cert.
The VCA-DCV is weak-sauce.
The A+ is good... if you don't have a solid foundation; but also just a desktop cert.

You might be better served spending 3-4 weeks getting your "ITIL Foundation" now. It may bolster your Internship experience.
It can honestly be obtained in less than 4 weeks. Someone here can refer you to the book that is highly recommended. (although i have heard that they changed the test/questions/material)

MCSA server 2012- is more worthwhile. But this is a Server admin role.
Is that what you want to do?

And Where is the Cisco on your list?
Did you leave it off because you don't like it?

Nonetheless, you need to pick a direction, and work to get the related certs.

"All I can say is that I hope they make my position permanent after this because my internship ends In September. I don't know how I fell about the company getting me to run the whole site on an Intern salary. Hope it pays off!"

That's Loser talk.
You know EXACTLY how you feel about it.
And what happens if they DO make you an offer...... but the wage is completely under-valued.
What then?

If you want things to "pay off"... then MAKE it happen. Don't sit around and hope for it.
Get the internship.
Get the experience.
Get the certifications.
Get the better Job.

(although easy for me to say; i don't live in the Bahamas)

scaredoftests

Life isn't fair. However, I think it is really cool you get to experience all this, it will come in handy in your future jobs.

OctalDump

The more I think about this, it makes me realise how many people I know who started off in these kinds of crappy positions who have moved onto much better things (myself included). I've worked a couple of jobs that paid less than minimum wage - the first one was really dodgy and could have ended very badly if anything went wrong. Another I didn't even realise I was being underpaid until I got my first paycheck. But I inflated both on my resume to get a better job. I think that being thrown in the deep end, combined with not being paid well, is an excellent combination for getting a better job. You pick up skills faster than you would in a place that was being run well, but you are also given a lot of motivation to find something better. Means and motive.

If they are going to use you for cheap labour, then you should use them for experience. Be a total mercenary about it. You owe no loyalty.

Take any free training (or video or book or whatever) they have, try out any technology they have, build anything you like that is work related, dive deep.

Remedymp

I think that being thrown in the deep end, combined with not being paid well, is an excellent combination for getting a better job.

But, then it creates very negative perceptions on a company or it's brand. Thus, people goto glassdoor reviews site and leave nasty commentary about a business.

greg9891

Hey question what is the minimum wage in the USA?

Remedymp

greg9891 wrote: »

Hey question what is the minimum wage in the USA?

Wages are state dependent.

greg9891

One thing I do agree with all is that the experience is priceless and I have had alot of it over the past year.

volfkhat

greg9891 wrote: »

Hey question what is the minimum wage in the USA?

In many states... the min wage is around $7.50 per hour.

In California and New York.... min wage is going to increase to $15 per hour; but its a gradual increase over the next 5 years or so.

But, if you can get a job from a Federal Contractor, minimum wage is Currently $10.

Get as much EXP as possible,
and Like OCTAL said; be sure to "inflate' your resume :]

W Stewart

I'd say you've got a good bit of leverage right now. Demand a full time position or you're walking for a better offer. Trust me, they can make it happen.

apr911

W Stewart wrote: »

I'd say you've got a good bit of leverage right now. Demand a full time position or you're walking for a better offer. Trust me, they can make it happen.

They can make it happen. Doesnt mean they will. You need to be prepared to follow through on the threat of walking if you go down this path so use caution. Making idle threats could well lead to you having no job.

That being said, W Stewart isn't completely of base in that you might be able to make lemonade out of the lemons you have. You however need to take action. Take responsibility and accountability for yourself and how you got yourself into this position and then do what you need to do to fix it.




Always remember, fairness is in the eye of the beholder.
There are those who have no experience and would love not only the paid work but the learning opportunity you've been presented with.
There are those who have some experience and would feel the learning opportunity outweighs the presumably low pay
There are those like you who have some experience and would question whether the learning opportunity outweighs the presumably low pay.
Then there are those who have experience who know the learning opportunity doesnt outweigh the presumably low pay.

I believe you should find yourself in each of these situations at some point for every job you will ever have. Its how you know you've truly out grown a position. You should never be afraid to take a step back in pay for the opportunity to make yourself worth more in the future.

Employment is a 2 way street. You're learning skills that you will later use to exploit an employer for more money just as your current employer exploited your willingness to perform the job for the salary offered.

mandy7777

I think that is Fair, Gaining experience is more importance when you are New in IT field in MY opinion, Although some of you might not agree out there. But it is true that if you have more experience, the chance of getting better/Next better job opportunity is more:)

blargoe

Is it fair? Not completely... but is it still worthwhile to you? Absolutely, not doubt about it.

You either prove yourself and get renewed/converted to permanent in September (and have leverage when the discussion happens), or you have valuable experience to show for your first IT gig if it does end.

UnixGuy

fair or unfair is irrelevant. The sooner you stop thinking about things in terms of fair vs unfair the better off you will be.

You're a fresh grad, your main and ONLY focus is to get experience - everything else is irrelevant.

Get as much experience as you can. I mean absorb everything like a sponge, and when you go home LAB LAB LAB and gain certifications.

That should be your only focus, don't waste energy on anything else. Whether the world is fair or not is completely irrelevant to you.

mandy7777

Super agree with you. Everything is irrelevant. Get as many experience as possible

fmitawaps

When the supervisor comes off of vacation, show him how you handled things, and push a little to be hired. But if it seems like you'll be out when the internship is over, make sure his bosses find out he took off and left you in charge!

greg9891

I agree with most of the responses that I have seen so far. And my agenda is to get as most experience as I can and as someone said earlier in the form make lemonade out of lemons.

alan2308

There are a ton of interns who aren't doing much more than making copies and fetching coffee that would love to be in your situation. Keep that positive attitude and the pay will come, either where you're at or somewhere else.

cmztech

This has actually become a really powerful thread to encourage almost anyone who is looking for a job, in a job they don't like, or overall wants something better. I love the feedback coming in here.

OP, I don't think it's been mentioned so here is my 2-cents. Document the heck out of what you do during this time. Don't try to remember it all later, just keep jotting it all down. Oh, and if possible don't allow yourself to get bitter. Instead, channel your inner 'Harvey Specter' here and knock-it-out-the-park. Don't let them see you sweat! GL!