What did I just get myself into....

Mitechniq

I have a potential decision to make that will most likely have several people mad at me. In previous discussions, I mentioned I was casually accepting job interviews for specific cloud security positions. It was a very small pool of companies; it started off rather frustrating. Many wanted some DevOps or programming skills which neither I was comfortable admitting I could do. These last four months I have dedicated time learning CloudFormation, Chef, Ansible, Vagrant, Git and Jenkins. I incorporated some of these products into several designs/builds for my current job.


My next discussion was understanding how to approach companies saying "I was the best candidate but no offer," rather unpleasant situation not getting any closure.


7 Companies later two have followed through, and this is where my dilemma begins:


The 1st company is a small SaaS Insurance company, been around for 20 years solid market and financial stability. They hired a CISO several months ago, and he is building out his team, I would be his first employee as a Cloud Security Architect. Lot's of AWS work and many opportunities to introduce other Cloud products like Zscaler, InfoBlox, OAuth, and NetSkope. 4 Weeks of Leave, they cover 80-90% of the Insurance, and they do 100% 401k matching up to 6% of my Salary. It would be a 22% Increase in pay from my current job with a potential bonus. My interest comes from working directly under a CISO; our interviews were great, and I would be part of molding the companies security posture.


The 2nd company is a medium SaaS ERP/CRM Higher Education company, again been around 40 years with year over year financial growth. They have a Security team but are currently migrating all their software on AWS and desperately needed someone that had an AWS/Security background. Pretty standard benefits and three weeks of leave. Up to this point the discussion has been mainly around AWS and I don't see doing any other work. They offered me the same salary as the first company. I would be working under a Manager that reports to the CISO. I had interviews with both, and I liked where the company was going. It would start as a Cloud Security Engineer with title change 90 days into the position. That was one of the items I negotiated in my offer letter, which the letter I signed includes.


Now comes the interesting part, my intent was to accept the first companies offer, but I have only received a verbal offer. We all know verbal offers are not worth anything, so during my wait, the second company sent me a written offer asked me to respond within three days - I took four days hoping the first one would come in. I didn't want to lose the opportunity to get a good bump in pay and decided to accept the 2nd company's offer. Now the 1st one came in yesterday saying the CFO finally signed off on the position and the letter should be in today. To further complicate things, my current boss spoke to me yesterday saying he is certain they are going to give me a raise/promotion and a bonus for the work I have done in AWS this year and the billable projects I have completed. If things were not complicated enough last week I was told by my National Guard unit, I have a high chance of being on six-month orders next year.

Lexluethar

Take the first job - sorry you don't owe them anything IMO. People have this odd affinity with believing they owe companies something like it's their friend or family member - not realizing those same companies will can you in a heartbeat if they needed to because of financial struggles, restructuring or something else unforseen.

Call the second company (don't write or email) and tell them thank you for the opportunity but you received a job offer that you cannot turn down. Thank them for the time and leave it at that. Unless you have started working for that company (IE gone in and filled out paperwork and started training) you don't need to do much else. I Wouldn't worry about hurt feelings or anything, it's a company they will find someone else and in 2 weeks you'll be a forgotten man. Sure you might not be able to apply there again under the same management but you need to watch out for you and no one else.

As for your current company they probably just got a whiff of you interviewing and they want to try and keep you around. If you were upset / unhappy enough to start really looking and interviewing then the job isn't worth sticking around. I have a personal rule, if i'm unhappy enough to take other job offers then no matter what the counter offer is I wouldn't take it. You started looking for a reason, if that reason is money sure they may offer more money but if it took you to quit for them to offer that - is that a company you want to work for?

Those are just my thoughts - i'm not a job hopper by any means either, worked at one company for 7, then another for 3 now my current one going on my 6th year.

NetworkNewb

Yea, the first job sounds pretty sweet with really nice benefits. It's is going to be an awkward conversation, but I would have to tell option two you are going to have rescind your offer.

What does "six-month orders" entail? Does that mean you might be sent over-seas for six months?

Mitechniq

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Yea, the first job sounds pretty sweet with really nice benefits. It's is going to be an awkward conversation, but I would have to tell option two you are going to have rescind your offer.

What does "six-month orders" entail? Does that mean you might be sent over-seas for six months?

I don't want to go into too many details, but I would potentially be away for six months starting the last quarter of 2017.

Mitechniq

I have a great manager, and the work I do is exciting but the company as a whole is going through some rapid changes and they are merging with a bigger company in April of 2017. Which means there is no stability and a great chance the work environment might be completely different than what I am accustomed to today. My thought was to leave before the company does massive layoffs or makes a drastic culture change like HPE did several years ago - forcing all of their employees working remote to go back to an office. I, of course, mention this because I work remote and the other 2 companies will allow me to continue to do remote work with minimal travel.

Another positive is the potential of the first company, the CISO likes coming in building out the security posture and 2 years down the road find another challenging opportunity. I see it as a window of opportunity to fill his role once he leaves and we have openly discussed this in our previous interview.

NetworkNewb

Well now this is just a gloating post on how great job one is... jk I don't know about others, but I've found smaller companies who treat their employees well seem to have the best atmosphere and I've enjoyed most working at those most. That's just a personal opinion though.

beads

Something the chew on.

Having been through multiple deployments to various different garden spots across the world I would assume the larger company would be better able to handle your absence for 6 months. Not that either really has a choice in the matter. That's been settled by both Federal mandate and more importantly the courts. Case law rules uber alles after all.

Keep in mind how things will look to you after you've been gone and how much of a political tangle as well as your technical work is going to look like when you return.

The whole situation is unenviable but oft times layer 8 wins the game for the home team as well. Your best play is with the team that will support your deployment both away and when you return.

- b/eads

Trucido

I would take the first job, apologize and inform the 2nd job that you've found something you could not refuse. Also let people at the first job know you got word from the national guard of your duties and may need to take some time off.

p.s im pretty sure a job cannot fire you for military duty; if they do, you've got a legal case on your hands.

Mitechniq

beads wrote: »

Something the chew on.

Having been through multiple deployments to various different garden spots across the world I would assume the larger company would be better able to handle your absence for 6 months. Not that either really has a choice in the matter. That's been settled by both Federal mandate and more importantly the courts. Case law rules uber alles after all.

Keep in mind how things will look to you after you've been gone and how much of a political tangle as well as your technical work is going to look like when you return.

The whole situation is unenviable but oft times layer 8 wins the game for the home team as well. Your best play is with the team that will support your deployment both away and when you return.

- b/eads

Something that is not talked about enough in NG/Reserve circles, there has been several times I have declined a position because I did not want to burden the new company with a future training or mission requirement. I've regretted those decisions and it has impacted my career progression. Fortunately, both companies are very well aware of my NG obligation, as I now make a concerted effort to be very transparent of my NG commitment (not the 6 months). Maybe I have lost several opportunities because of it but I think it is important to highlight and emphasize the amount knowledge and training provided by the Guard and how it would benefit the company. It is, however, something that is troubling me and could possibly sway me to stay with my current company.

volfkhat

Mitechniq wrote: »

It is, however, something that is troubling me and could possibly sway me to stay with my current company.

Agreed on that last part.
Job offer #2 should probably be rescinded asap. Blame it on your upcoming deployment.

The Real question is Whether you take Job Offer #1..... or stay at the current gig until either the layoffs or the Deployment.
Either way... you're probably not going back to your current employer :]

JoJoCal19

Based on everything posted here, agree with volfkhat. Rescind acceptance of #2 immediately to keep them from waiting. Use whatever excuse whether the NG or you got an amazing offer or you decided to stay at your current job due to amazing counter. Then speak to #1 and mention that you will probably have a 6 month deployment sometime in the future but dont mention end of 2017. Ask if that manager is ok with that and say you understand if he's not. Based on that answer either accept #1 or go stick with current employer. If you stick with your current employer just keep your resume sharp

trueshrewkmc

@OP....I am former Army Reservist. You don't have orders until you receive them. If the funding falls through or priorities change, you may never receive orders. There's a new President-elect and sometimes priorities change.

I took a new job when I was pending orders for Iraq. Turns out the then new employer lost its contract within a month of me starting. Did the new employer tell me the contract was ending? No, they hired me anyway. Wound up being qualified for another position with the same company, but I didn't give them orders until I had them.

I would not mention any potential deployments to #1 or #2 (unless you want to use the deployment excuse to reject #2). If you have to fill out a job application as part of the hiring process or if asked directly, be truthful about your military status. Otherwise it's not your job to give a potential employer information that might disqualify you. Do you think a new employer would tell you about their layoff plans? Nope.