SecureNinja vs Intense School vs SANS - my experience

Hi everyone,

I just completed another boot camp, and wanted to share my experiences with the forum.

My background: I started in information security in 2006, as part of the US Secret Service's Electronic Crimes Special Agent Program (ECSAP). My specialties were Network Intrusion Response (NITRO) and Critical Systems Protection (CSP).

In 2013 (while with the Service), I put myself through SecureNinja's Security+ CE boot camp in Alexandria, VA. The instructor was OUTSTANDING. The course material was presented thoughtfully, and my understanding of the concepts skyrocketed. Practice test questions were spot on. The cost was reasonable, and SecureNinja provided a decent lunch daily. I was extremely happy until the last day, when everything went to shite. Several desktops in SecureNinja's onsite testing center went down, leaving only a few computers available for the class to test. To make matters worse, SecureNinja gave preference to outside test takers from off the street, further causing a delay. In all, I waited 4 hours in a hallway to take the exam. They ruined a perfect training week, and I swore I'd never go back, especially following the acrimonious back and forth I had with SecureNinja's management following the debacle.

In 2014 (still with the Service), I put myself through Intense School's CEH boot camp near Dulles Airport. The instructor was good. It was a different class, as CEH has a practical component, and the lab work was useful. I found the practice questions to be spot on as well. This course, however, was not up to the standard of the SecureNinja course. The instructor was good and personable, but not as engaged as the SecureNinja instructor. The lunches provided daily were terrible. As with SecureNinja, the exam was included in the course fee.

In 2016, my new employer paid for my SANS MGT 414 CISSP prep. The $5000K course fee (independent of the $600 exam fee, which was not included) was exorbitant. The days were long. Lunch was not provided in the cost. The test questions / online exam engine was substandard compared to the others. And most importantly, the domains as interpreted by the instructor did not reflect the domain questions on my exam. On the first day, SANS provided the class with the new Eric Conrad book, and made a big show of how magnanimous they were to provide us with a $40 book free of charge. I guess they missed the part about charging $1500 more than their competitors, and not providing lunch. To be fair, the instructor was a good guy. He worked extremely hard, and was very personable, patient, and engaging. I simply believe the test material could have been presented more efficiently. Terrible value. If you go the SANS route, invest in the CC Cure quiz engine. It is much better than the Conrad engine.

In retrospect, I would give SecureNinja a second chance, Intense School was just okay, and I am very glad someone else paid for my SANS course.

JT
(CISSP, CEH, Security+)

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TechGromit

I’ll have to agree with you, SANS training is way overpriced, unfortunately many of the courses they offer, there is no competition. Take Incident Response training, SANS offers the SANS 504, and the GCIH certification. While several other venders do offer incident response training, most do not have recognized certification programs. SEI offered an incident response certification CERT-CSIH, but it is not an approved DoD 8570 baseline certification, which pretty much eliminates you from working for any federal government related employer. Why pay 3 or 4 thousand for a worthless certification, when you can pay $6,750 for a industry wide recognized certification?

Until more certifications are industry wide recognized, especially the DOD, SANS pretty much has the market cornered at this point.

GirlyGirl

ThinLine wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I just completed another boot camp, and wanted to share my experiences with the forum.

My background: I started in information security in 2006, as part of the US Secret Service's Electronic Crimes Special Agent Program (ECSAP). My specialties were Network Intrusion Response (NITRO) and Critical Systems Protection (CSP).

In 2013 (while with the Service), I put myself through SecureNinja's Security+ CE boot camp in Alexandria, VA. The instructor was OUTSTANDING. The course material was presented thoughtfully, and my understanding of the concepts skyrocketed. Practice test questions were spot on. The cost was reasonable, and SecureNinja provided a decent lunch daily. I was extremely happy until the last day, when everything went to shite. Several desktops in SecureNinja's onsite testing center went down, leaving only a few computers available for the class to test. To make matters worse, SecureNinja gave preference to outside test takers from off the street, further causing a delay. In all, I waited 4 hours in a hallway to take the exam. They ruined a perfect training week, and I swore I'd never go back, especially following the acrimonious back and forth I had with SecureNinja's management following the debacle.

In 2014 (still with the Service), I put myself through Intense School's CEH boot camp near Dulles Airport. The instructor was good. It was a different class, as CEH has a practical component, and the lab work was useful. I found the practice questions to be spot on as well. This course, however, was not up to the standard of the SecureNinja course. The instructor was good and personable, but not as engaged as the SecureNinja instructor. The lunches provided daily were terrible. As with SecureNinja, the exam was included in the course fee.

In 2016, my new employer paid for my SANS MGT 414 CISSP prep. The $5000K course fee (independent of the $600 exam fee, which was not included) was exorbitant. The days were long. Lunch was not provided in the cost. The test questions / online exam engine was substandard compared to the others. And most importantly, the domains as interpreted by the instructor did not reflect the domain questions on my exam. On the first day, SANS provided the class with the new Eric Conrad book, and made a big show of how magnanimous they were to provide us with a $40 book free of charge. I guess they missed the part about charging $1500 more than their competitors, and not providing lunch. To be fair, the instructor was a good guy. He worked extremely hard, and was very personable, patient, and engaging. I simply believe the test material could have been presented more efficiently. Terrible value. If you go the SANS route, invest in the CC Cure quiz engine. It is much better than the Conrad engine.

In retrospect, I would give SecureNinja a second chance, Intense School was just okay, and I am very glad someone else paid for my SANS course.

JT
(CISSP, CEH, Security+)

I spent a few thousand to take the ___ bootcamp at that location. It was alright, I would definitely go back if I were interested in other certifications. I like how you had the choice of food and everyday it was mostly something different. The kicker is the meals. I would say from a food standpoint SecureNinja is at the top of the list. But, If several thousand dollars are being spent I don't care if I am eating peanut butter and jelly. So I can't really say food gets one institution cool points over another.

I can say good and bad about SANS let's just get that out of the way now. They've gotten a great deal of my money and will get a great deal more next month. I'll say a few things so you know I am not pulling this out of my rear end and I am #official. The designated parking at Secure Ninja doesn't exist, you have to park on the street somewhere. I parked in parking spots on the lot and never got towed. I was in my car and a guy said I was in his spot and to move and that's about it. Once you walk in the building Secure Ninja in on the right (maybe depending on the door you enter) but it's on the first floor. I am never going to vouch and prove crap I ever say online because none of us are friends in real life and I personally don't care, I just said all that to say what I am about to say without you doubting me.

You are right Secure Ninjas test questions were VERY spot on. Absolutely. SANS doesn't abide/break/tippy toe on the same morals that Secure Ninja goes by. I don't know how you wanted SANS to present the material, if they presented the questions/answers any clearer everyone would pass (cough cough). Like I said I paid 5k out the pocket for ___ so I am not blowing no whistles or tooting any horns. Hypothetically speaking if I pay 6k+ for a bootcamp and they hypothetically give me the answer I ain't saying crap. So they can revoke my cert, i retest, and I am out of 5k...NO you'd be an idiot.

I don't agree with everything you said. That's fine not a big deal.

PJ_Sneakers

Based on what GirlyGirl stated, I am assuming Secure Ninja provided "test prep" that was more along the lines of "test ****". She didn't say that, but I inferred it.

If that's the case, then I'm glad to hear you found the practice tests from SANS "less efficient" than what you encountered in the Security Ninja class.

If that's not the case, then sorry dude, that sucks. At least you didn't have to pay for it.

TechGromit

How much are these SecureNinja courses anyway, I couldn't find any information in pricing.

ThinLine

GirlyGirl wrote: »

I don't agree with everything you said. That's fine not a big deal.

Absolutely not a problem. We're all here to share experiences. I'm sure yours (and many others) have differed.

PJ_Sneakers

TechGromit wrote: »

How much are these SecureNinja courses anyway, I couldn't find any information in pricing.

That's because by their very nature, ninjas are highly secretive.

TechGromit

PJ_Sneakers wrote: »

That's because by their very nature, ninjas are highly secretive.

I located some online courses, The pricing isn't bad, but they say they are "self-paced" online training which is code for nothing more than videos you watch, instead of actual live training sessions. Most of this training can be obtained from Youtube for free. I'm a little surprised to see Windows Server 2003 training, Microsoft support for this server ended in July 2015, I can't see very many organizations still utilizing it. and the ICND1 training is for exam 640-822, the last day to take this exam expired Sept 30, 2013. I would expect all of there online training to be seriously outdated. SANS on the other hand updates there course material at least once a year. I think it's pretty much irresponsible for them to continue to sell these products. I know I would be seriously upset if I purchased an online course only to find it's so outdated I couldn't pass current exams using it.

Based on the online content, I would seriously question how up to date there live classroom training is.

PJ_Sneakers

Yeah that sucks about paying for static streaming training content. What you're really paying for is organizing all of the information into one flow that you can digest more easily.