33 - Really Need Career Advice

age33johnny@gmail.com

Hi All:

I'm 33 years old thinking of entering IT field for good, security to be specific first choice, web development as 2nd choice. I have a bachelor degree in Business from U of P (University of Phoenix), not the greatest school but nevertheless it's a degree. I don't have any IT certification.

About five years ago I worked for a hosting company doing tech support level 1 and 2 and was pretty good at it but it was low wage dead end job so I quit when I couldn't find a opportunity to move within the company or more up (did it for 2 years). From there i went into restaurant industry ending up becoming a district manager. I would also occasionally resolve any IT issues restaurant might have. For instance, installing new POS terminal, router, setting up a network or pulling cable, installing camera system etc...

Anyhow, five years into my career in restaurant business I want out. It's time that I move on and do something better for myself and food business is not want I want to be doing rest of my life.

With that said, I'm pretty okay when it comes to IT at very basic level. I know how to troubleshoot windows, build web site (less complicated), basic level of networking and troubleshooting.

I don't want to go back to tech support - no desire at all to do desktop support. Would luv to work hard and start making real money.

What would be the best way to break into IT security ? Should I start working on my certification or go for another bachelor degree? Two schools i have looked into are Northeastern University Boston (Information System) or WGU BS In IT security, either of this will take be less than 2 years to complete as I already hold BS in Business Management.

Also, one thing I didn't bring up is my age. I'm not sure if i'm late in the game but from reading various posts here seems as IT is ever changing field the ones that keep up with the knowledge move on while the ones don't stay were there at.

Looking forward to hearing from you all!

TheFORCE

Best way to break into IT for most people is helpdesk and desktop support. You can get lucky and find junior infosec positions if you have talent, degree or certifications to show for.

age33johnny@gmail.com

The Force: Sometimes those type of jobs don't lead to any successful path - not saying they don't but from my research everyone here says to avoid help desk if you have somewhat exp. Would I not be a case? Would my tech support exp not count much? Would doing Security+, CCNA make me more marketable?

Danielm7

Those types of jobs can absolutely lead to an upward path. The only ones that don't are the people who don't look for better jobs or seek internal promotions. The issue is that you have some support experience, but then you have a 5 year gap of non-tech experience after. You might be able to bypass a L1 helpdesk job with certs and framing your resume in a way that doesn't highlight the time out of IT.

I wouldn't go for another BS right now. All opinions of UoP aside, you do have a degree. It's not related, but I don't think your best ROI right now is another two years of school. Getting into security with your current skillset is going to be very difficult. I've hired a few people into the field, I look for experience, or even at the very entry level I want someone who has LOTS of desire and who is doing things on their own to get experience. Showing 2 years of helpdesk followed by 5 years of non-IT jobs isn't going to paint a great picture in that regard. If you can get any job you can look into tuition reimbursement at some point but I'd wait for that. Even if you looked at WGU's MS program later you might be able to do it mostly for free if a company has even a little bit of budget for that stuff.

I know it's all over the news and the big buzzword right now, but why do you want to work in security? It's a huge field, which part of security interests you? Have you done any research about it?

TheFORCE

It would count yes, in combination with those certifications. But you would be competing with people that have those certs and experience in those areas indirectly from their current jobs. You would also need to probably justify your 5 year gap or craft your resume in such a way that your 5 years in the restaurant business only show the IT portion of the job. Either way, you would need someone to take a chance on you for those infosec jobs, not saying someone cant be lucky but there are a lot of factor that play a role. You just have to make that first step and try, get your resume ready and go out there applying. As far as jobs with no paths, the job doesn't show you the path, you create your own path in IT based on your interest, your talents, your knowledge and your desire to do something really well.

kiki162

Getting into security is going to require a core background first. Basically, you'll have to start at either a helpdesk or NOC/SOC type of position, and get into either system or network administration. With web development, you can always try looking into those bootcamp type of companies that train you for 12 or 16 weeks, and help get you into a job after graduation. It sounds like you have more of an interest as a network admin, but you have to figure out what your interested in first.

Since you already have a BS degree, I would invest your money elsewhere into a bootcamp, and then work on gaining that job experience. I think most in here that have gone through their undergrad will tell you that it won't prepare you 100%, but will give you an entry level understanding. Going for either your MCSE, CCNA, a few CompTIA certs will give you the boost you need to get you started. If you are really set on getting another BS, wait until your with a company that will pay for it.

volfkhat

age33johnny@gmail.com wrote: »

The Force: Sometimes those type of jobs don't lead to any successful path - not saying they don't but from my research everyone here says to avoid help desk if you have somewhat exp. Would I not be a case? Would my tech support exp not count much? Would doing Security+, CCNA make me more marketable?

Without directly-related experience... the certs are not gonna help you break into sec.
Granted, they wont hurt either; but who is gonna hire a noob for a security position??

a CCNA (with Zero experience) could/might help you land an entry-level NOC position.
Is that what you want?
an A+ with Security+ would increase your chances of a desktop-tech gig with a government subcontractor.
is that what you want?

Question:
why do you want to go into IT-sec? Do you even know what a IT-sec position involves?
personally, I wouldn't go into IT... unless you have a legitimate interest in IT. Simply wanting to make "the big bucks" is generally not gonna be enough. (but only you can answer that).

You have No IT degree,
No IT certifications,
and your last IT job was 5 years ago...

But you don't want to do helpdesk nor desktop support...
Good luck with that approach.

Possible options:
A) Keep your restaurant job.
Go enroll at a community-college and work on your Associates in IT-sec.
Learn it, Love it.
From there, take your chances trying to land a SOC gig.
(EDIT: if you can get a 2nd bachlelors in less than 2 years; then that works too)

On your own time: self-study the A+ curriculum. Network+, and Sec+. Build a solid Foundational understanding of basic concepts. At the same time, Quit the restaurant, and get back into a helpdesk somewhere; you're gonna need to start building up that "resume" experience.


Question:
How much do you make annually at the restaurant?
How much do you expect to make at your next IT gig?

Lastly, at 33... i don't see age playing a factor.
Only your commitment.

TacoRocket

To piggy back with people, it depends on why you want to go IT Security. The doing part is not the problem. Most of the people I talk to it is because they hear that's where the money is. The same is with other positions. I would follow what field you like best. The people that follow the money were talking about networking 5 years ago. If that's what's going then I would look long term. See what you like and make money there.

mzx380

OP
Breaking into the IT security field with no background or training will be tough. You haven't been in IT for a while and only have two years of help desk experience so you may have to cut your teeth by going back albeit temporarily. If you are lucky enough to land in the right organization, there may be chances for you to ascend or make a lateral move to another organization provided you have a game plan and keep upgrading your skills.

As far as education, you shouldn't go back to school just yet, but you should think about grad school within the next ten years just to keep yourself more marketable for the future. Certification wise you need to think about what it is you want to do and then focus on a path. If you want security, start with CompTIA Security+ and then get the required work experience to appear for your CISSP.

Also, have a read a post that I made last year as I was in a similar predicament, it may provide some clarity.
Good luck and keep us posted


http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/123500-my-whirwind-year-things-i-learned-2016-a.html

age33johnny@gmail.com

Hi everyone thank you for taking time to get back with some feedback. From what it seems like I need to get back into Desktop / NOC / SOC starting at the bottom and work my way up. I guess this shouldn't be a problem knowing that some of the desktop position pay 15 to 20 an hour. My restaurant salary is $45 to 50k based on performance (before tax), so nothing to go about.

What would ideal path be if I was to start at NOC / SOC / Desktop support? The reason I'm more interested in IT security (haven't decided which part of security) is because of long term growth. I know this field isn't going to away anytime soon and if I was to bust my ass off for next 10 years then I rather pick a career that's worth a while.

Now thinking about it I don't mind going back to desktop / NOC / SOC to start but from exp how long does it take for an individual to move out of these position?

If it takes notoriously long time to move out of desktop say 2 to 3 years then wouldn't it make sense to do web development with boot camp training were your skills are more marketable in less than year? Just a thought. I know this depends on what my actual interest are. I just don't want to be stuck in entry level gig for few years that's all if i have to go back and start all over again.

THanks.

TheFORCE

The reason people start from those low level positions is because it gives you exposure to different IT fields and then people find 1 field or another more interesting and start from there creating their path. Once you go into IT you might find that infosec is not for you or that you might have a better understanding of networking technologies or you might find that you are better with auditing systems etc etc. Majority of people stay maybe 2 years in those jobs and then more on to their desired job. Granting you have 2 years already, for you maybe it will take just 1 more year till you feel comfortable, but as stated earlier, it will deoend on other factors too. location, demand for a particular job, company, industry company operates in, luck, and company culture etc etc. Just make those first steps.

age33johnny@gmail.com

I live in Philadelphia region so I would assume there is some good opportunity in the area. To become more marketable it would be wise to say start studying for CCNA to get a entry level NOC?

superbeast

I'm in a similar boat as you. I'll be turning 33 in 2 days. But I've been pursuing my IT educational units since 2012(juggling full time work/family life while going to school) I just received my Associates of Science in Information Systems & Technology last year. Landed my first IT Support role about 6 months ago. It's not the typical IT job, but it gives my resume some IT job experience.

Not sure what your other responsibilities include(i.e. family/kids, etc) but a degree in IT will get you noticed no matter what industry you proceed with whether it be private sector or public sector. I'm pursuing a career in infosec and will be on my Bachelor's pursuit starting Fall 2017 at a university. In the mean time though, I'm doing self study for Network+ and Security+ after that. So depending on how much you can handle or juggle with other responsibilities, go back to school to earn an IT degree, do self study for a certification probably starting out with Network as that would ultimately be a good foundation needed before entering the security side, apply for some low level IT jobs to gain that real world experience.

After I got my Associates in IT, I decided to apply for some IT jobs not really expecting to land an IT job but rather to gain some experience with how IT interviews go and surprisingly landed an IT job on my first interview based on my degree.

Good luck and keep us posted with your progression. This board can be a wealth of knowledge and you'll find some people are on the same journey you are just taking different roads to get there. Ultimately, you know you better than anyone so you'll know what you can handle. Best advice I ever received was to never stop and keep going no matter what.

volfkhat

volfkhat wrote: »

a CCNA (with Zero experience) could/might help you land an entry-level NOC position.
Is that what you want?

So...yes.

Starting on a NOC.. and then jumping to SOC is definitely plausible (err, well, within the same company).

Shoot for the Sec+ after the ccna.
(not sure after that)

superbeast wrote: »

I'm in a similar boat as you. I'll be turning 33 in 2 days. But I've been pursuing my IT educational units since 2012(juggling full time work/family life while going to school) I just received my Associates of Science in Information Systems & Technology last year. Landed my first IT Support role about 6 months ago. It's not the typical IT job, but it gives my resume some IT job experience.

Not sure what your other responsibilities include(i.e. family/kids, etc) but a degree in IT will get you noticed no matter what industry you proceed with whether it be private sector or public sector. I'm pursuing a career in infosec and will be on my Bachelor's pursuit starting Fall 2017 at a university. In the mean time though, I'm doing self study for Network+ and Security+ after that. So depending on how much you can handle or juggle with other responsibilities, go back to school to earn an IT degree, do self study for a certification probably starting out with Network as that would ultimately be a good foundation needed before entering the security side, apply for some low level IT jobs to gain that real world experience.

^
This guy gets it.
he literally followed my suggested path; Options "A" and "B" (see post #7).

Slow & Steady wins the Race.
Congrats dude :]

age33johnny@gmail.com

superbeast: Are you getting your BS from WGU / B&M?

supasecuritybro

PLEASE DO NOT GET A DEGREE UNLESS IT IS FOR FREE. Getting into debt for a job you do not have or a career field you are not in is not a smart move. You can get into the field with some experience with NOC / SOC location. Also getting into a CCNA will go a long way into a security job. Understanding the inter-workings of networking is extremely helpful. Do not give into the "I need to get a degree in this to make it" hype. You are able to do it. You will need to work hard, have a good attitude and provide yourself some time to get in.

age33johnny@gmail.com

so before I dive into working on some certs I just want some clarifying opinion "age". Would it be better to go certs route / development route for better pay out in terms of career, satisfaction and monetary wise with age factor?

Thank you for clear input on NOT to proceed with another degree at the moment. Makes more sense not to do another bachelor at the moment unless its paid by an employer.

Clm

If I was you I would first start studying for a InfoSec cert like Security+ or SSCP I would not go get another bachelors I would move onto a masters at WGU maybe do IT Management or the MSCIA and start looking for a Junior level InfoSec position my last company hired a lot of junior level Analyst with no experience we brought them in and trained them.

mzx380

Your age is not really much of a factor here, the days of people needing to be in a set position at x stage of their life is over. I definitely recommend that you explore graduate school within the next 10 years as it will make you more marketable for future employment and will be easier to navigate with future life commitments. It doesn't necessarily have to be paid for by your employer if you go online route as many here will tell you (myself included) that you can obtain a quality degree online that will help you get your foot in the door and the rest will be up to you.

Good luck

beads

This board (or bored if you will) has probably answered this question over 200 times since I registered. Lets start with the obvious. What attracts you to security? The pay is actually coming down a bit as more people enter the field, not to mention quickly leave. See below. Often due to the skillsets in hand are no match for the tasks at hand: undertrained, unprepared or just plain unaware but isn't that why newbies so frequently tout certifications over experience?

You really need the hard skill sets before trying to enter the "security" field in general. Most of the calls I get for security positions of all walks and flavors are supped up networking roles with a side of soft security skills to attract more candidates. You need those hard skills in order to audit, break, fix and design around the very systems your trying to protect. Many people new to the field are initially drawn in because of some James Bond like premise that it must be glamorous, spy versus spy, dark hoodies in the middle of the night stuff. In reality its less Advanced Persistent Threat and more checking the locks on the electronic doors and chasing bad guys into worse neighborhoods. Think very academic "cops and robbers" way of life. You will have to learn how to be, quite literally, a life-long learner. Probably the most common mistake I see with most new "security" analysts is that they spend very little if any real time learning and relearning the craft. Either on the softer security side or the harder networking/administration side of the role.

On the developer and DBA side of security there are many opportunities to ply your trade in real penetration testing beyond simple NCat and Nessus scanning. I have personally stopped three interviews short this month alone because of stating such an obvious fact. Thank but no thanks, that's not a real penetration test. This is where your real money, perks and benefits arise but again, these are really hard skills to pick up and work with but the end result is being allowed to have your (or whatever) blue mohawk, work at home living making 200 Grand a year lifestyle. I know a couple of people like this. Definitely not front office types but they have an awful lot of fun doing what they love to do - break into things, electronically.

Good luck. Get some real skills first.

- b/eads

superbeast

No, I'm from Southern California so my BS will be from Cal State University, San Bernardino. They have an excellent cyber security program that has been recognized by DoD, DHS, CIA, NSA. They even have agency funded scholarships in exchange for service with these agencies where they will pay for your tuition and provide you with a stipend. All they require in exchange for this is you give service back to the respected agency that provided the scholarship.

I also just got word that my application for Department of Homeland Security application was reviewed and deemed eligible to move forward. Internships are definitely valuable as well. They may not pay as much or even at all, but if you can afford it, the knowledge and experience gained would only benefit you.

I'm not going to lie, doing volfkhat's "A" and "B" path is challenging. I've thought numerous times about just stopping either school or self study. But I know if I do, it'll be even more challenging to regain the momentum I'm at. Once you've done it long enough, it just becomes routine

SweenMachine

age33johnny@gmail.com wrote: »

so before I dive into working on some certs I just want some clarifying opinion "age". Would it be better to go certs route / development route for better pay out in terms of career, satisfaction and monetary wise with age factor?

Thank you for clear input on NOT to proceed with another degree at the moment. Makes more sense not to do another bachelor at the moment unless its paid by an employer.

age33johnny@gmail.com wrote: »

so before I dive into working on some certs I just want some clarifying opinion "age". Would it be better to go certs route / development route for better pay out in terms of career, satisfaction and monetary wise with age factor?

Thank you for clear input on NOT to proceed with another degree at the moment. Makes more sense not to do another bachelor at the moment unless its paid by an employer.

I am going to put my two cents here.

Anyone that says 'don't start at the help desk' are bitter or really don't understand how IT works. Now, if you said 'getting off the helpdesk is hard" then yes. That could be accurate. I mean I stagnated a while on the helpdesk as I attempted to figure out what I wanted to do.

I also was: young, lazy, unfocused, undisciplined, uninformed, moody, entitled, woe-is-me, and blamed everything on everyone else.

When I got serious, I was about your age. I mean, I am not far from your age now (3 but at 35 I left a job I had been at for 7 years (helpdesk) and left for a different helpdesk. Around the same time, I started learning about certifications, taking my career seriously, putting in the effort and I was able to rise through the ranks very fast.

I spent about 18 months at the helpdesk, managed the helpdesk for another year and now I am an executive and Director responsible for our entire support organization.

By starting at 33, I personally feel you have a leg up. You don't need to to go through the wasted 20's that so many of us go through. You probably already got that stuff out of your system.

If you are serious, driven, focused, you can very easily turn a entry level helpdesk job into a career path.

Remember, everyone else at the helpdesk will be young entitled millennials..... (kidding! the young guys and gals on my team are amazing. I wish I was that focused in my 20s...)


-scott