cybersecurity masters degree -- whats the go too?

newjack

I am looking for an online cybersecurity possibly in operations or in IR -- what is the go to? Is WGU still reputable now a days? SANS still good? I am also considering price..

Danielm7

WGU is the same as it's always been, legit, cheap, etc. SANS would probably teach you the most by far, but if you're considering price you'll also likely spend a ton on the SANS MS program.

Rumblr33

Have you checked out Norwich University? They have a concentration in Incident Response Management. The cost will be more than WGU. SANS is legit but unless you are paying out of pocket (or with the GI Bill), there is no financial assistance for their program. Norwich's program is very writing intensive during the first four courses and then you dive into your concentration. Looking around and determine what factors will help you make the best decision for you and your career.

CyberSecurity

Capella has a new MS program that is very similar to WGU (All online with assignment submission but not the weekly requirements like "Go into the discussion forum and type some stuff".) and is why I'm switching from WGU to them. They are also offering credit for 5 classes out of the 12 due to my certs. Worth looking into in my opinion.

Danielm7

CyberSecurity wrote: »

Capella has a new MS program that is very similar to WGU (All online with assignment submission but not the weekly requirements like "Go into the discussion forum and type some stuff".) and is why I'm switching from WGU to them. They are also offering credit for 5 classes out of the 12 due to my certs. Worth looking into in my opinion.

Do you actually end up saving money going to a for-profit school in the end though?

NOC-Ninja

CyberSecurity wrote: »

Capella has a new MS program that is very similar to WGU (All online with assignment submission but not the weekly requirements like "Go into the discussion forum and type some stuff".) and is why I'm switching from WGU to them. They are also offering credit for 5 classes out of the 12 due to my certs. Worth looking into in my opinion.

I've finished my Masters in 3 terms. That is less than 9k for a masters degree. I dont see any Uni beating that. I also got CEH and CHFI.

How much is capella?

Grym

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I've finished my Masters in 3 terms. That is less than 9k for a masters degree. I dont see any Uni beating that. I also got CEH and CHFI.

How much is capella?

The site you linked has an advertisement for "Saving $4000" if you get a scholarship, and its been awhile but a co-worker of mine got his BS from Capella and it was maxing out the employee reimbursement at the time which was 5k a year.

jeremywatts2005

Champlain has two degrees that would fit the bill. The MS in infosec ops which is IR related or you can go digital forensic science which is IR and forensics. Great college not bad on costs and heavily recognized in industry Online Master's in Information Security Operations | Champlain College Online I have my MSDFS from them and it was a huge career boost definitely look at them

CyberSecurity

Danielm7 wrote: »

Do you actually end up saving money going to a for-profit school in the end though?

It depends really on how many classes you can get credited out of. For me WGU would be $1420 cheaper, but would take about 1.5 years instead of just a year at Capella. There are a lot of personal factors that come into play for myself on why I chose Capella, but WGU works out better for those who want those certs and even better for those who would have to do the full 12 courses at Capella.

Capella also offers a PhD program in Cybersecurity, which my boss has, and he mentioned it may be easiest to transition from a MS into a PhD all while at the same school.

NOC-Ninja

Grym wrote: »

The site you linked has an advertisement for "Saving $4000" if you get a scholarship, and its been awhile but a co-worker of mine got his BS from Capella and it was maxing out the employee reimbursement at the time which was 5k a year.

I dont remember linking any site. I didnt get any scholarship. It was set price of 3k per term/6 months. You can take as much subjects as you want on that 6 months.

A co-worker of mine went to capella. He said he owes 40k. Lots of people here went to WGU and they dont owe that much. Its good if your employer will pay that 40k. What if they dont?

Grym

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I dont remember linking any site. I didnt get any scholarship. It was set price of 3k per term/6 months. You can take as much subjects as you want on that 6 months.

A co-worker of mine went to capella. He said he owes 40k. Lots of people here went to WGU and they dont owe that much. Its good if your employer will pay that 40k. What if they dont?

Apologies, it was in your quote. And as far as the co-worker, I was also referencing Capella. From those two things, plus your co-worker, going to guess Capella is not cheap, plus at the time he went, I think they were only Nationally accredited.

And yea, finishing up my BS in IT security from WGU as we speak, last test scheduled for Saturday, no debt, and only took me eight months to finish my degree, no complaints about WGU, well maybe their part time pricing, but eh, its not terrible.

jelevated

I went to Capitol Technology University (formally Capitol College), great program and professors. They will accept WGU transfer credit as well.

Went primarily because they don't require letters of recommendation for the admissions process lol, my undergrad professors wouldn't have known who I was even while attending.

cdx

i haven't seen anything better than WGU in terms of ROI. Degree + Certs = win

FillAwful

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

Champlain has two degrees that would fit the bill. The MS in infosec ops which is IR related or you can go digital forensic science which is IR and forensics. Great college not bad on costs and heavily recognized in industry Online Master's in Information Security Operations | Champlain College Online I have my MSDFS from them and it was a huge career boost definitely look at them

Starting infosec ops with them this fall. Glad you had a good experience, it really seems like an awesome course outline and degree. Employer will reimburse.

kurosaki00

FIU has a new MS in Cybersecurity. I'll probably give it a try once I relocate.
WGU wasnt for me, did not liked it at all. But I do agree with others that if you have the time and discipline, it can save you a lot of $$$.

cwelber

I went to Excelsior for my Cybersecurity Masters and recommend it. A lot of the military goes there. It's interesting my degree has made almost no difference for me salary wise, but if I needed a new job it might get me in the door. Experience and work product trumps everything I guess. On the other hand I could probably teach College level now.

JoJoCal19

Stay away from "for-profit" schools. WGU is good as a quick (as quick as you can go) and cheap option to check that box. Did my MSISA at WGU and like kurosaki, I wasn't a big fan. Am now doing a MS in Cybersecurity at USF. If you were in FL I'd check it out as it costs about $12-$13k all in. Other than that, I highly recommend Norwich's MSISA, then DSU. I was accepted into Norwich's program and wish I'd have gone there over WGU.

jeremywatts2005

FillAwful wrote: »

Starting infosec ops with them this fall. Glad you had a good experience, it really seems like an awesome course outline and degree. Employer will reimburse.

Well with my degree from Champlain I went from making 60 - 70 to over 140K in three years. No joke at all. I write down my MSDFS and employers are all over it. The company I am at now hires from them and they are a huge telecom company worldwide. My instructors worked in cyber for the government mostly and they had been working for them for years and had tons of experience. Plus the real world training for a Masters was awesome. One of the toughest degrees I ever took. My Masters from CTU never got me anything at all. I was barely even in the tech fields at times struggling because no one valued the degree. Champlain took my career to a whole other level.

mgeoffriau

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

Stay away from "for-profit" schools. WGU is good as a quick (as quick as you can go) and cheap option to check that box. Did my MSISA at WGU and like kurosaki, I wasn't a big fan. Am now doing a MS in Cybersecurity at USF. If you were in FL I'd check it out as it costs about $12-$13k all in. Other than that, I highly recommend Norwich's MSISA, then DSU. I was accepted into Norwich's program and wish I'd have gone there over WGU.

Just curious why you are doing an MS Cybersecurity after doing the MSISA. I don't have any issues with doing multiple masters programs, but why two with so much overlap?

JoJoCal19

mgeoffriau wrote: »

Just curious why you are doing an MS Cybersecurity after doing the MSISA. I don't have any issues with doing multiple masters programs, but why two with so much overlap?

It really came down to wanting a more well known university on my resume and being able to get one from a state uni that is both CAE-CDE & CAE-R for about $12k all in.

jelevated

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

It really came down to wanting a more well known university on my resume and being able to get one from a state uni that is both CAE-CDE & CAE-R for about $12k all in.

Same for me, actually I left WGU a few semesters before finishing. I had people ask me where the school was located (tough to explain when its WGU (state name) but its in Utah?), why there were no actual professors, why there were no actual GPAs through interviews. Post CISSP I got hired on and via tuition reimbursement went elsewhere.

JoJoCal19

@jelevated Yea unfortunately, even though I was sort of feeling this way through most of the degree, I didn't really decide on it until I was a like 3/4 of the way through, so I just got super motivated and powered through several classes in like one month. I then got a term extension to finish the capstone, which I did in like a week and a half.

aspiringsoul

I just wanted to add some to this discussion. As someone who has a degree from a Private For-Profit school (ITT Tech) and two Private Non-Profits schools, I highly recommend that you stay away from any For-Profit schools as well. Some of these schools are just plain scams (Like Trump University) while others are just poor investments.

The incentives are misaligned at most #4profit schools. For-Profit schools are run with the intention of maximizing Shareholder value and increasing Earning Per Share each quarter. As a result, For-Profit schools are much more expensive and often spend much less on instruction than Non-Profit schools.

There is a reason that the Obama administration had been cracking down on these schools...

Anyways, I highly recommend that you review this report by the Senate HELP committee before considering enrolling in a For-Profit school (link below):

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/Contents.pdf

For those of you interested in Capella, please read this:

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/PartII/Capella.pdf

I wish someone had informed me what a For-Profit school was before I enrolled at ITT Tech. Definitely one of the worst decisions I have made in my life, but at least my children will not attend a For-Profit school...

JoJoCal19 wrote: »

Stay away from "for-profit" schools. WGU is good as a quick (as quick as you can go) and cheap option to check that box. Did my MSISA at WGU and like kurosaki, I wasn't a big fan. Am now doing a MS in Cybersecurity at USF. If you were in FL I'd check it out as it costs about $12-$13k all in. Other than that, I highly recommend Norwich's MSISA, then DSU. I was accepted into Norwich's program and wish I'd have gone there over WGU.

CyberSecurity

aspiringsoul wrote: »

For those of you interested in Capella, please read this:

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/PartII/Capella.pdf

I wish someone had informed me what a For-Profit school was before I enrolled at ITT Tech. Definitely one of the worst decisions I have made in my life, but at least my children will not attend a For-Profit school...

Thanks for sharing and I did see the red flags in the pdf. I believe I'm one of those rare cases where this school will just work out better for my personal situation vs. WGU pretty much for the only reason that I can complete it faster than I could WGU due to the new Flexipath program. I have a GI Bill so the cost is covered. I pretty much need a masters as quickly as possible to be considered competitive because really I'm just competing with others who also have expensive pieces of papers that are framed even if we didn't learn all that much in school.

For Profit definitely isn't for most people, but I believe if you hold certs that credit you classes and a GI Bill, those are 2 of the biggest factors that neutralize the negative aspects and level the playing field. The only thing I may end up regretting is the CEH and CHFI that WGU offers and is actually keeping me on the fence while I continue to decide between the two. I love WGU's resources when it comes to certs since they've always adequately prepared me. Aspiring to be a Red Team Pen-tester, It may be more beneficial to go to WGU due to the intro level hacking cert... I don't know...

JoJoCal19

I see you're talking about 3 terms for WGU. Dude I worked full-time, moved a couple of times, started a couple of new jobs, had big houses and yards to manage, spent most all of my free time with my wife and three kids, and generally neglected my MSISA for months at a time to work on certs, and I STILL managed to complete the MSISA in a little over 3 terms.

I know you've got to be able to complete the WGU in far less time than me. With as motivated as you say you are to complete a Master's ASAP, you should be able to knock it out in two terms, probably one term. The only two variables is how long you put on the CEH and CHFI (CHFI can be done literally the week after the CEH imo). If I had focused on it like that then 1 term or so would have been easy. I can tell you the way to attack the written papers to pass in one shot.

Danielm7

I think JoJoCal is right on the money here. You're saying 3 terms maybe just based on what WGU is telling you, and less based on what Capella is telling you. I don't know how Capella's acceleration works but with WGU it's a known quantity. It's unfortunate it's only about the speed in this case because with GI Bill funds you could probably go almost anywhere.

jeremywatts2005

aspiringsoul wrote: »

I just wanted to add some to this discussion. As someone who has a degree from a Private For-Profit school (ITT Tech) and two Private Non-Profits schools, I highly recommend that you stay away from any For-Profit schools as well. Some of these schools are just plain scams (Like Trump University) while others are just poor investments.

The incentives are misaligned at most #4profit schools. For-Profit schools are run with the intention of maximizing Shareholder value and increasing Earning Per Share each quarter. As a result, For-Profit schools are much more expensive and often spend much less on instruction than Non-Profit schools.

There is a reason that the Obama administration had been cracking down on these schools...

Anyways, I highly recommend that you review this report by the Senate HELP committee before considering enrolling in a For-Profit school (link below):

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/Contents.pdf

For those of you interested in Capella, please read this:

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/PartII/Capella.pdf

I wish someone had informed me what a For-Profit school was before I enrolled at ITT Tech. Definitely one of the worst decisions I have made in my life, but at least my children will not attend a For-Profit school...

Well, I hate to say this but non-profit schools are really for profit. There is no such thing as a non-profit school. Somewhere someone is making money from the education money that is being spent. The taxpayers are the ones who are footing the bill for the "Non-Profit" school along with grants and donations which sound great, but like I said at the end someone is getting paid and making a ton off of it. Could the "Non-profit" school cut budgets and not raise tuition costs heck, yeah they could, but someone has to get paid. The "Non-Profits" track enrollments and drops and reenlistment like every other school. Trust me when state budgets are low and tax-payer money is not flowing in they lay off and drop instructors as quick as they can. It's a business. You had a bad experience at ITT Tech and I can tell you there are probably just as many that had good experiences also.

aspiringsoul

While I certainly will not dispute the fact that Non-Profits have to make money to stay in business, nor the fact that many Universities spend an absurd amount of money on their sports teams and amenities, I do want to clarify that there is a significant disparity in the salaries of Non-Profit College/University Presidents, and the CEOs of For-Profit Colleges.

For example, Publicly traded companies operating for-profit colleges had an average profit margin of 19.7 percent, generated a total of $3.2 billion in pre-tax profit and paid an average of $7.3 million to their chief executive officers in 2009 (that's per year).

Let's use ITT Tech for example (source is the Senate HELP Committee report which you can find in the link below):

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/Contents.pdf

Executives at ITT, like most for-profit executives, are also more generously compensated than leaders of public and non-profit colleges and universities. Executive compensation across the for-profit sector drastically outpaces both compensation at public and non-profit colleges and universities, despite poor student outcomes at many for-profit institutions. In 2009, ITT CEO Kevin Modany received$7.6 million in compensation, more than 22 times as much as the president of Indiana University at Bloomington, who received $337,144 in total compensation for 2009-10.

Compared to public colleges offering the same programs, the price of tuition is higher at ITT. Tuition for an Associate degree in business administration at ITT’s Indianapolis, IN campus was $44,895. The same program at Ivy Tech Community College in Bloomington, IN costs $9,385. Tuition for a Bachelor’s degree in Business Administration at ITT’s Indianapolis, IN campus costs $93,624. The same program at Indiana University in Bloomington, IN, costs $43,528.

ITT spent $2,839 per student on instruction in 2009, compared to $3,156 per student on marketing and $6,127 per student on profit. The amount that publicly traded for-profit companies spend on instruction ranges from $892 to $3,969 per student per year. In contrast, public and non-profit 4-year colleges and universities, generally spend a higher amount per student on instruction while community colleges spend a comparable amount but charge far lower tuition than for-profit colleges. Other Indiana-based colleges spent, on a per student basis, $11,856 at Indiana University Bloomington,$4,193 at Indiana Wesleyan University, and $2,827 at Ivy Tech Community College.

The higher tuition that ITT charges is reflected in the amount of money that ITT collects for each veteran that it enrolls. From 2009-11, ITT trained 11,856 veterans and received $178 million in post-9/11 GI bill benefits, averaging $15,042 per veteran. In contrast, public colleges collected an average of $4,642 per veteran trained in the same period.

Source: https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/PartII/ITT.pdf

Now, you may not be aware of the fact that ITT Tech was sued by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) for Predatory Lending (as was Corinthian Colleges, another For-Profit that went belly up due to its deceptive and predatory practices).

Source: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-sues-for-profit-college-chain-itt-for-predatory-lending/

ITT Tech was also sued by the SEC because the CEO and CFO misled investors on the performance of their predatory loan program.

Source: https://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-86.html

I have performed an extensive amount of research on the For-Profit College industry, because I personally know several individuals who have degrees from such institutions which are essentially worthless and they are trapped with student loan debt that they cannot discharge in Bankruptcy, and they are not able to utilize the credential that they were conferred to obtain gainful employment which would allow them to pay off their debt.

For-Profit Colleges heavily target Veterans due to a Loophole in the 90/10 rule. The 90/10 rule is basically a rule which only permits For-Profit colleges to derive 90% of their revenue from the Federal Government. However, the GI Bill benefits are not included in the 90% which makes Our Nation's troops stand out as Dollar Signs in Uniform. This is exactly the reason why For-Profit Colleges put such a tremendous amount of effort into recruiting Veterans. It's also important to note that For Profit College Recruiters are paid commission. They are incentivized to put as many "asses in classes" without regard to the best interests of the students. In contrast, most Non-Profit College "Advisers" are paid a Salary. They are paid the same regardless of how many students they enroll.

You can read about For-Profit Colleges exploiting Veterans here:

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/carrie-wofford/2013/11/11/this-veterans-day-help-a-vet-avoid-a-gi-bill-for-profit-college-scam

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2009-12-30/for-profit-colleges-target-the-military

David Halperin wrote a fantastic book which will tell you all that you need to know about this industry (Stealing America's FutureHow For-Profit Colleges Scam Taxpayers and Ruin Students' Lives):

It's a free e-book, at the link below:

https://www.republicreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/D-Halperin-Stealing-Americas-Future-ebook.pdf

He also wrote a free e-book which is an expose' on the individuals and groups which back the For-Profit college industry (and profit directly from it). It's called: Friends In High Places:Who Endorses America’s TroubledFor* Profit Colleges?

https://www.republicreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Halperin-Friends-In-High-Places.pdf

The author Tressie McMillan Cottom just released a book called: Lower Ed: The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy

More info about that here: https://www.amazon.com/Lower-Ed-Troubling-Profit-Colleges/dp/1620970600/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490712647&sr=8-1&keywords=for+profit+colleges

John Oliver even discussed for Profit Colleges (more info here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pjd1QEA0c

In summary, I feel that I have provided you (and other forum members and guests) sufficient information and sources to perform your own research and make your own decision. However, I feel that you owe it to yourself to at least investigate the information that I have provided before making an argument that defends For-Profit schools (especially one that went bankrupt because of deceptive and predatory practices such as predatory lending).

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

Well, I hate to say this but non-profit schools are really for profit. There is no such thing as a non-profit school. Somewhere someone is making money from the education money that is being spent. The taxpayers are the ones who are footing the bill for the "Non-Profit" school along with grants and donations which sound great, but like I said at the end someone is getting paid and making a ton off of it. Could the "Non-profit" school cut budgets and not raise tuition costs heck, yeah they could, but someone has to get paid. The "Non-Profits" track enrollments and drops and reenlistment like every other school. Trust me when state budgets are low and tax-payer money is not flowing in they lay off and drop instructors as quick as they can. It's a business. You had a bad experience at ITT Tech and I can tell you there are probably just as many that had good experiences also.

Rocket Impossible

I'm taking an MS in Information Systems Engineering at Regis University in Denver. They also have a pretty well regarded Information Assurance program. My classes are full of high ranking people in large enterprises, government, and the military. It's online and there are people involved from all over the country. Various 3 letter agencies are all over the Information Assurance graduates, if that's what you are looking for. Not cheap by any means though.

newjack

Rocket Impossible wrote: »

I'm taking an MS in Information Systems Engineering at Regis University in Denver. They also have a pretty well regarded Information Assurance program. My classes are full of high ranking people in large enterprises, government, and the military. It's online and there are people involved from all over the country. Various 3 letter agencies are all over the Information Assurance graduates, if that's what you are looking for. Not cheap by any means though.

I like the program at Regis, the biggest factor is cost at this point. What is the cost for this college and how long to complete? I think WGU is the best option for me because I am looking to bang this out and pay as little as possible, and I learn the most with self teaching.

NetworkNewb

That curriculum does look pretty good at Regis.

Just because one program is cheaper than another doesn't mean you will actually get the better ROI from it. I think WGU can make sense for someone with a lot of experience and advance certifications though.