What kind of entry level job can i expect get with BS Information Technology security

faintingheart

What if I have a BS Information Technology Security. Fresh out of wgu and don't have any experience. What kind of job should i expect to get with that degree and no experience? Can I at least be a system admin?

jcundiff

most likely not, when you will be competing against candidates that do have experience... Degree is a checkbox but in most cases, experience is going to trump it. I am working on my degree (BS-ITSEC) now with almost 20 years experience. Checking the box and a personal pride thing for myself Look for NOC type roles to get the experience and grow from there

Deus Ex Machina

You've got some certs which helps. You're also in a great state for IT jobs. Would internships interest you? Tank out with the low pay for a year, do a good job, and you'll likely be hired full time. Great way to start your career.

jcundiff

maybe find a service desk job while working on the degree... that way when you finish your degree with some experience in the trenches

dialectical

Yes, get a job which lets you do homework during downtime, such as a service desk. Do not underestimate how hard that CCNA-Security exam will be which is required for your degree. I am 0/2 on it. But that and your CCNA will probably help more than the degree. Also, if already at a service desk then you can maybe work your way up to networking. Just try not to get stuck in desktop repair work because it can be hard to break out of that.

faintingheart

jcundiff hey should i get a noc or a help desk job? I'm reading ACE the IT interview, and Ace the IT resume. I bought them both from amazon. I hope I can get a helpdesk job or noc. But do I qualify? would any company hire me, if I apply?

Deus Ex Machina Thats a good idea. I am reading up on "All Work No Pay by L. berger" right now. If your not fimilar the author did 15 internship in during her undergrad and made it her career and that's amazing. I want learn and absorb from that book and get on the internship world.

dialectical I haven't gotten that far yet I'm only on my 2nd term. So your saying that the certification weighs more than the degree? Any how, thanks for the caution warning on how hard the CCNA security will be. I will study more diligently.

dialectical

faintingheart wrote: »

should i get a noc or a help desk job?

Oh my goodness... if you have a choice, NOC!!!

If you think of the traditional IT career as a sidescrolling Mario game, this is how it goes:

Help Desk > Desktop Repair > NOC > advanced specialist > chief scientist/lead tech/IT manager > CISO/CIO.

Stopping around advanced specialist is more than respectable and sets you up to be a senior engineer. Your experience is always more valuable when you are in a specialized role. If I could only put one on my resume, I would take 1 year in a NOC over 10 years at a Help Desk.

Also, it seems many are only at the Help Desk for about 3 weeks until they burn out. Help Desk turnover is notoriously short. I was personally lucky enough to start at Desktop then go to a NOC as somewhat of a specialist. Although I feel like my pay is quite low considering, I believe the experience to be worth more than time spent at a top school. Also, in a NOC and more specialized roles you tend to get more time for schoolwork and studying for certs (AKA research). Call it research.

Regarding your other question (to me), the value of certs, education, and work experience all multiply in value against each other. I go to WGU and believe its nonprofit status gives it an edge over all for profits (sans the SANS Institute). WGU also lets you double dip by claiming the degree and the certs which comprise the degree. Most people, even network techs, don't realize how hard the CCNA-Sec is, so the degree will have more value in general.

But personally, the CCNA Security is the only cert I've ever failed (and twice at that) so for me it's the most impressive aspect of your degree program. It had lots of questions on specialized GUIs that you need a license for like the ASADM and VPN-related GUIs. I've since invested in ASA 5506X's for my home lab which come with their own licenses. Admittedly, I have not turned them on yet but I will when I get brave enough again for the CCNA-Sec again. I will not take it until after the CCNP.

Fortunately, I am in the MSci Cybersecurity program and only need a C|HFI and C|EH, which I expect to be easier than CCNA-Sec. I would look into a buying a switch and an ASA 5506X. I bought my 5506Xs new on Amazon and they came fully licensed (envelopes with the license in them). You can run your home network off it permanently since it's fanless. If you also get something like a SG-300-28, that will also be fanless and therefore you can leave them on all day and have silent networking equipment at gigabit speed. Don't bother getting 3560 switches or 2800ish routers because they sound like gas generators. The ASA 5506X requires a switch because its interfaces are layer-3 unlike its predecessor, the Fast Ethernet ASA 5505. If you buy two of them then you can make VPNs, but that adds up to quite an investment. But since that's a layer-3 switch you'll be able to get through your CCNA with it. Good luck.

faintingheart

Thanks Dialectrical!

volfkhat

faintingheart wrote: »

What if I have a BS Information Technology Security. Fresh out of wgu and don't have any experience. What kind of job should i expect to get with that degree and no experience? Can I at least be a system admin?

A sysadmin is someone who generally works on Servers all day.

If thats what you want to do, then learn how to use virtualbox and get to it!
You will need to earn the appropiate certification to go along with it; MCSA, RHCSA, etc.

No Degree Required.

What kind of job should i expect to get with that degree

beats me... what kind of subjects does the curriculum cover?
For all we know, you could be studying to be a web developer.
/shrug.

But based on your Title... maybe something at a SOC?

I have an alternative suggestion:
Why don't You tell us What kind of job that You want to Land straight outta school :]

faintingheart

Hello there volfkhat, I would like to be a Network Administrator and then a Network Engineer. How can I get there? What does it take? What certs do i need? What price do i need to pay? Please show me the way. Currently (I'm at point A) I have zero experience,I am enrolled at WGU and are working on my Bachelor in IT degree, and hold 3 Comptia certifications (A+, Network+ and Security+). I would like to start making money so that I can support my family.Please give me advice and show me the right way to get to Point B, thank you in advance volfkhats.

Remedymp

Do an internship.

jeremywatts2005

I just answered this question for someone I know. She kept pushing that with a BS in infosec she could make 70K a yr to start. I had to chuckle. Now reality has set in and she has the option to work tier 0 in an SNOC for $18 and hour and have a chance at promotions or find a job totally out of the field with a better title and similar pay maybe a couple bucks an hour more. I told her to take the SNOC position work there to get some certs (she has none) and build experience. Then go for a better job or try to move up.

volfkhat

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

I just answered this question for someone I know. She kept pushing that with a BS in infosec she could make 70K a yr to start. I had to chuckle. Now reality has set in and she has the option to work tier 0 in an SNOC for $18 and hour and have a chance at promotions or find a job totally out of the field with a better title and similar pay maybe a couple bucks an hour more. I told her to take the SNOC position work there to get some certs (she has none) and build experience. Then go for a better job or try to move up.

Lol
It is funny, isn't it?

But then you realize that your friend was being fed that BS... but from Who??

Suddenly.... it's not so funny.

The sooner people wise-up, then better off they will be.

Faintingheart,
If you want to be a Network Engineer.... earning the CCNA is probably the single, most-impactful thing you can do.
You dont even need a Bachelors degree; Plenty of people only have an Associates (from community college).

But if you are halfway to your Bachelors... then good for you!
Do your best to stay on course.

But, if i were you, i would focus on Learning & achieving your CCNA (as soon as possible).
Then try your HARDEST to get a NOC position somewhere (part/full-time).

If you can pull this off... then you are On your way; even if you have to lighten your workload at WGU.

That's how i see it (but others can way in)

faintingheart

Hey I change my mind, after a bit of research. I want to be a System Administrator instead of a Netowrk engineer. I'm going to change my BS-IT to Network Administation path asap at wgu.

Dakinggamer87

faintingheart wrote: »

Hey I change my mind, after a bit of research. I want to be a System Administrator instead of a Netowrk engineer. I'm going to change my BS-IT to Network Administation path asap at wgu.

If you want to be a Systems Administrator I would recommend certification wise going down the path of either Microsoft or Linux depending on your preference.

Microsoft: MCSA/MCSE (3-4 exams)
Linux: RHCSA/RHCE

I would spend time labbing, learning the environmental duties of a Systems Admin with GPO, AD, User accounts, updates, and tool management. Any type of volunteer work or internship you can get to gather some experience and exposure. Practice, practice, and practice.

Best of luck out there!!

volfkhat

fyi,

i know a Senior System Admin who earned his degree (in the 1990's) in Accounting.
Kind of unusual... but not really.

Just because you have an IT degree focusing on X... doesn't mean that you can't do Y.
Getting your Degree is what matters.

If you want to be a Server guy; figure out what O.S. you want (Windows, Linux, etc);
then put the approiate certification (mcsa, Linux+, Rhcsa) on your todo list.

good luck!

faintingheart

Dakinggamer87 -Thank you so much for your advice.

volfkhat - thank you for your advice. I totally appreciate it.


I'm going to start my hustle on! I'm excited and ready.

dialectical

faintingheart wrote: »

I want to be a System Administrator instead of a Network engineer. I'm going to change my BS-IT to Network Administation path asap at wgu.

You will then be getting a MCSA in Server 2012 R2 as a required part of your degree, and fortunately will no longer have that hurdle of the CCNA-Sec.

I am extremely biased to say the least, but what I believe you really need to learn for this career track is VMware. Unless you're working for someone trying to keep the Bronze Age alive, those Windows Servers will probably be running on VMware. Most of your job will be interfacing with vSphere. The VCP certification requires a college course (or a very expensive online class around $5k). But that would be your main gig and will dictate how you interface with the guest Operating systems (Windows Server instances). When RDP is down you can still console into everything with vSphere, even while the VMs are booting up. Also snapshots let you roll a system back if a patch breaks the core apps - rather than re-imaging the whole thing. If you want to get really good at VMware for free, then you can use their hands on lab pods indefinitely (here). Also, CloudCredibility.com is a fun site that will give you points and a global ranking as you prove master of concepts one at a time.

Regarding the day-to-day with Windows Server, you will be doing something called STIGs, this would/should be true whether you are working for private or government sectors. Use your .edu email to register at imagine.microsoft.com and get free full versions of Windows Server there (up to 2016). Then download StigViewer (click here for that). Then download one of those XSL files (do not attempt to download the one which is FOUO - it won't let you anyway). Last stop is to download SCAP Workbench (here for that). You would probably use a different form of that in the field but that tool will scan IPs from Windows Servers that you manage and give you a score on how compliant they are according to those XSL files you downloaded. The academic details from your MCSA studies will cover the rest such as how to use a domain controller.

Might sound like a lot but it's not. Do all that, practice, and you're good to go as a (Windows) server admin. Feel free to reach out to me if you want help or guidance with any of the VMware stuff. That's what I am betting on for the long run.

volfkhat

dialectical wrote: »

I am extremely biased to say the least, but what I believe you really need to learn for this career track is VMware... That's what I am betting on for the long run.

just say'in...

dialectical

Those charts should not be a surprise to anyone. I don't want to threadjack here but, since we are discussing the sysadmin fate of the OP, it feels necessary to raise some questions about them.

That marketshare for Hyper-V is automatic because it ships out of the box as a native service of Windows Server 2016 and is fully integrated onto the main dashboard as default.

However, it is surprising that vCloud is doing as well as it is in those rankings because it's still being defined and is extremely early in the strategic planning phases and also early in the certainty of its future as a core platform. Public cloud is not VMware's niche. The performance of AWS speaks well for their strategic partners, however, because VMware is actively engineering solutions which allow vSphere as a service to roll out of AWS containers. While AWS extremely recently has came out with some offline private stack tricks, it's not their niche at all to manage local private clouds, which is instead the dominant role that VMware plays.

Regarding Hyper-V versus VMware, I challenge you to find a single Microsoft engineer who will not openly admit that Hyper-V's progress, as it stands in 2016 Server, is any further than VMware's iteration of vSphere 4.1 (vSphere is currently on 6.5). Hyper-V simply comes along natively with the Windows Server technology, but if you want advanced clustering features, distributed firewalls, or VDI then you need to look elsewhere. Microsoft does not even stand behind a VDI solution of its own which is why it is opting to partner strategically with Citrix and stand behind their VDI. However, I'm yet to see objective comparisons which score Citrix's performance above VMware's.

AWS, vSphere, and Hyper-V are different enough that it is difficult to glean meaningful insight from infographics which put them side by side. However, what I'm excited about is seeing how the partnership between vSphere and AWS unfolds. If that's a breaking success then there might not even be a vCloud, in which case, like I said I'm surprised that vCloud is even on the map there nonetheless outperforming most on that list.

VMware's true competitors are Citrix, KVM, and Xen. Another reason for strong Hyper-V marketshare would be its fundamental position in the Azure stack, which again, is public cloud. Also, Azure is supposed to be doing better than AWS or at least very well, so I'm surprised to see AWS out as far as it is on your chart. But I do not eat subnets for breakfast so perhaps you have an up to date infographic that compares private clouds rather than private vs public?

UncleB

I'm in agreement with volfkhat on this - in the last 5 companies I have worked with, only 2 used VMWare and anoher 2 were moving away from it to Azure due to the lower overheads.

VMWare is useful but my experience in the UK is that it is being surpassed by Microsoft (hyper-v) and cloud technologies (Azure, AWS and Google) everywhere I see. I certainly wouldn't plan my career around a technology on VMWare now although having the skills to look after it are relevant for now. Costs are the main reason, alongside the scarcity of skills (probably linked to the absurd cost of VMWare training).

Plenty of companies still have a significant investment in VMWare and are locked into using it so it isn't going anywhere in a hurry, but it is becoming a legacy environment that is little used and often ends up broken with no-one knowing how to fix it as the company won't invest in a training course for them (or several training courses in most cases).

Based on the job market a this time, as a sysadmin (looking to up-skill) I would think Azure is the best option for the next few years, followed by AWS and finally VMWare if you are looking for best return on effort.

For the record I did just invest in my VCP in 5.5 and 6.0 in January this year using Stanley CC (ie on a shoestring budget) so it isn't that I have an issue with it, I'm just responding based on how I see work demand here in the UK.

dialectical

I am actively pursuing certification both in Azure and AWS, and so would be one of the last to be discounting their value, but I'm still at a loss as to how they somehow compete against VMware.

If your business applications are being managed entirely by AWS then you have a serverless environment and your data is being hosted by outsiders. However, if you want to set up private cloud (inside the perimeter of your network) and take ownership of your most sensitive data, are you saying that you can do this with AWS or Azure?

Let's not forget about the OP who wants to manage Windows Servers. Standard vSphere administration does not take much preparation (although yes the price of training is brutal). Especially if you're just doing snapshots and some basic stuff, it makes the whole Windows Server thing much easier really. It's Azure and AWS that would be more difficult to use (although at that point I am venturing into opinion and admittedly some ignorance).

Regarding government jobs where you are dealing with sensitive information, you can bet that AWS is going to be completely off the table. But Azure has some hope which is why I wish VMware could establish some rapport with Azure. I guess you could build some kind of mini AWS data center inside your network perimeter and then use AWS skills, but VMware is getting a lot easier to use, especially with storage. VMware was just awful in the 5.0 era when there was NetApp everywhere. I bet your broken legacy situations used vSphere 5.x and some awful NAS/SAN solution which you couldn't remove without killing the data with it. Now VMware can make the storage native to the hypervisors themselves and with better performance than any NAS.

The OP is just getting started and I find it hard to believe (although I would be pleasantly surprised) if learning AWS or Azure as a means to support Windows Server is somehow easier than just using Windows Server and/or some basic VMware data center virtualization.

UncleB

Hello dialectial, looking at what skills the OP will get most use from means we should consider the fact they will be probably starting at the bottom of the ladder in the workplace and will have to work their way up to the likes of a sysadmin or network grunt. Their security degree is unlikely to get them a security job without getting their feet wet doing basic support and proving their ability to play well with others.

To that end, if we consider that the vast majority of companies use a Microsoft base then it will be the most obvious choice to look at a Microsoft approach - and if security is still the desired field then something like the securing server 2016 (70-744 exam) would be a way to open doors on the sysadmin side while they look at other areas (CEH, Pentest, Security+ etc) that will support their aims.

This thread isn't the right place to argue over the merits of one virtualisation platform over another - I was just relaying my anecdotal experience of declining use of one regardless of the quality of the product.

I'm training on Azure at the moment and it is fairly straightforward after years of using other Microsoft server technologies so I guess any difficulties are probably related to what people know so far - its biggest challenge is the rapidly evolving nature of the interface and the fact that the official training materials are hopelessly out of date (not really any worse than the VMWare practice of using loads of obscure factoids in the exam questions though, both seem needlessly painful).

On the subject of cloud security, here in the UK I worked for the government a few years ago and we were researching on moving away from the VMWare platform to a provider in the G Cloud (government approved supplier framework including secure cloud services) and we looked closely at Azure in the cloud back in 2014 as it met government level security requirements with the right config. Secret classified material and above were required to be kept on airgapped servers onsite (old school stuff).

I guess you need to consider the sorts of companies that have moved their confidential data out to the cloud to realise that it is safe is setup properly - well as safe as internet connected IT systems can ever be of course...

Maybe the OP should consider focusing on security of cloud systems to have his near term career path enhanced.

EANx

I think it's a mistake to point to a solution losing or increasing installations as customers deliberately choosing one solution over the other. In addition to hyper-v coming with Windows 2016, greater efficiencies within ESXi continue to allow for more VMs to sit on a single instance of vSphere resulting in fewer instances of vSphere installed over the same number of VMs. VMware is also hitting a plateau on the number of features organizations are willing to upgrade thee hypervisor for and more of their revenue is gradually related to vCenter, NSX and vROPS.

AWS has a FedRAMP product that allows for the U.S. federal government and healthcare to store PII and other forms of SBU in a non-prem cloud. The DOD has also engaged with Amazon for a classified AWS cloud (on-prem).

volfkhat

dialectical wrote: »

Those charts should not be a surprise to anyone.

Perhaps.
Or perhaps the OP was not aware?
i wasn't poo-pooing your post... just providing an alternative viewpoint for someone trying to "break" into IT.

dialectical wrote: »

That marketshare for Hyper-V is automatic because it ships out of the box as a native service of Windows Server 2016 and is fully integrated onto the main dashboard as default.

That's an interesting counter that i didn't consider;
that maybe the Hyper-V marketshare #s are inflated? hmmm...

dialectical wrote: »

But I do not eat subnets for breakfast so perhaps you have an up to date infographic that compares private clouds rather than private vs public?

Nope, none at all. Just did some random googling to find evidence that supported my already-made-up-mind ;]
But there is a lot of FUD/SPIN/CRAP out there... so you really have to know where/how they arrive at their figures.

Case in point, look again at my first chart.... it says that Hyper-V rocks and ESX sucks, but it's for "x86 Servers".
Seriously?? Is it possible M$ is cherry-picking their data?
:]

dialectical wrote: »

The OP is just getting started and I find it hard to believe (although I would be pleasantly surprised) if learning AWS or Azure as a means to support Windows Server is somehow easier than just using Windows Server and/or some basic VMware data center virtualization.

The overall theme i'm sensing is that You are discounting Hyper-V.
Hyper-V today = ESX4.x (according to you?)

Well, even if that were true,
just having the Superior product (Today) does NOT guarantee future Success.

Vmware's licensing model is atrocious (my opinion).
I'm sure they had their reasons for revamping it back in 2011... but it created a Vulnerability for them.
It opened the door for a competitor to walk in and (essentially) give away a similar(inferior?) version of the Product that you are CHarging for.

Don't underestimate how compelling "good enough" can be; especially when "cheap enough" is the primary factor.

And when you consider that this "competitor" has the Reserves to keep investing/improving in the product....
it just doesn't bode well (imo).

Or maybe i'm the one who's blinded by their bias.

Do you remember R.I.M?
or Novell?
I'm sure UncleB does...

dialectical

Agreed that the OP should target cloud security. There is no room to deny that all the major tech companies have been systematically axing their non-cloud personnel. This also goes for people who can only run Windows Server on bare metal.


I was not aware of AWS/FedRAMP, which means that I was wrong about Azure having the exclusive rights and path to store sensitive information. However, this is good news to me because this thread has already "ramped" up my motivation to jump faster into AWS. You may find my next point stubborn, but this realization in no way diminishes my perceived value of VMware; to the contrary, I see many early adopter opportunities in being the first to master VMware's ability to roll out of AWS (and maybe even Docker or Kubernetes as a service).


@volfkhat No, Hyper-V 2016 mapping to vSphere 4.1's features does not come from me. I got that from a Microsoft trainer just a couple weeks ago in a Windows 10 class. I see Microsoft field engineers often and rather than use them for their intended purpose I like to ask them eveything they know and gather their opinions on the industry. They are trained to evangelize Microsoft products and features, and they generally do a stubbornly good job of that. For example, they would never be caught saying a good thing about AWS, but I got it directly from them that Hyper-V's clustering and virtualized network and security functions are extremely basic compared to VMware's, and is six years behind the curve with its features. They still had reasons up, down, left, and right why that doesn't matter because Microsoft offers a complete package - minus VDI. Like I said their native VDI solutions failed and they don't stand behind them. Not coming from me.


So that leads to an important question (we want the OP to succeed after all): what vendor has the best VDI solutions? VDI success stories are all over the headlines. Microsoft formally recommends Citrix. Bottom line is that VMware vSphere has lost its competitive edge (you've already listed reasons). I admit and VMware admits it. However, their new high paying rolls are in Horizon View (VDI) and NSX (network virtualization). Learning vSphere, however puts you on that path. This returns to my original statement that VMware's only true competitors are Citrix, KVM, and Xen. VMware is not fighting AWS they joined them.


But VDI with AWS? Not really, right? There is Amazon Workspaces but it uses Xen to function. Does that matter and is it good enough? I don't know. Does AWS have network functions comparable to NSX? If so then maybe I should take a step back with my career goals. I hardly have two years of industry experience but am just trying to run up the wall into the best thing out there. You guys have way more experience so I'm just going to sit next to the OP and listen.

UncleB

dialectical wrote: »

...I am just trying to run up the wall into the best thing out there.

I think an important thing to be aware of is that it is probably more effective to find the most adopted thing rather than the best thing as this is where the jobs will be. History is littered with the corpses of better technologies that were not successful because the inferior ones had better marketing / access to market so learn to spot winners and get into them early and move on when they become saturated with skilled staff and move into the next big thing.

I see the market in the UK is crying out for skilled Azure engineers so you can make a good career in this for a few years then while doing this, learn about whatever is going to replace it next and get in early while rates are high.

VMWare and Citrix are not in demand skills any more here except in a few situations as there seems a lot more interest in SAAS and PAAS solutions which mean the company don't need the same overhead of infrastructure staff / training courses etc. There are lean times ahead so saving costs is an important issue and the likes of Azure with their pay-as-you-go offerings are a godsend to finance departments where they can control this month to month without annual service/maintenance/licensing contracts to worry about.

For my view, cloud infrastructure and cloud security are the current places to be for the next few years to make good money and have an interesting (if challenging and often changing) workload.

dialectical

Ok, but that being said, would holding out in a full-time VMware admin position be a decent way to clock months/years of experience? Even if I wanted to cross the divide into Azure? I worry that my job is just vSphere-based and the lack of exposure to Horizon View or NSX will end up making it look like a help desk job?

I just stand at my desk until/if something breaks and am in a position where I can study almost all day and work on certs, finish up my degree, and work on blog posts. They ask almost nothing of me which means that it's empty experience on a resume that "might" look good on paper, but it's up to me to fill in that time with efficient studying and research.

So many threads here, including this one, say to do what it takes to get into a SOC/NOC and then from there the cards will fall in your favor. But if I wanted to apply to Azure jobs with only full-time "VMware" experience, then could I overcompensate for that with advanced certifications like MSCE or CCSP? Either way, before I make any plans, I'm going straight for the CCNP because I believe every single tech job out there would respect that since everything runs on networks (even if you're just doing API programming on network-aware applications). My job enables me to prepare for a CCNP because I sit next to the network guys and get to chat with them, but I am not getting actual networking experience of any substance.

You're kind of scaring me that I would never be able to brute force my way into full-time AWS or Azure work with certifications alone, education, and "related" cloud experience.

However, back to the OP, that renewed goal to get an MCSA would be a good primer for the MCSE (it's now just one elective away from being an MCSE in Cloud Platform and Infrastructure) and that depending on your elective would be all about Azure. You've also talked me into blitzing this MCSA/MCSE track after my CCNP.

volfkhat

well.. this thread is definitely OFF the Rails.
lol

Just a few thoughts:
Why are you thinking about getting a CCNP (routing?) if you really want to be a "Cloud/virtualization" guy?
i understand that "more knowledge" is never a bad thing.... but it feels more like a "side-step" towards where you really want to be.

And then, after that, you would go straight for a MCSA & MCSE?

I've never met someone with CCNP & MCSE; (sure its a real thing).... but wouldn't it generally be One or the Other?
(If i were applying for a job, and they wanted BOTH these certifications.... i'd laugh in their face).

For someone with less than 3 years EXP... i'm just not sure it's a good ROI.
Certs alone are NOT going to get you a Higher tier position.
You want the Cert with the EXP.

Given your current job situation...
Why not focus your efforts on more VMware products/certs, or the MCSA, or maybe even start going down the AWS road Now?
Hell, i'd even consider start learning Python (or other scripting language) before trying to get my CCNP.
Plus, i think you'd be able to "massage" your resume-exp to better align with the Cloud progression(?).

You say that you can hang with the Network guys a bit..... Do they have MCSEs?
Conversely, do your Server/Virtual guys tend to have CCNPs?
just wondering...

dialectical wrote: »

But if I wanted to apply to Azure jobs with only full-time "VMware" experience, then could I overcompensate for that with advanced certifications like MSCE or CCSP?

Nope, not in my opinion.
But you could LIE on your resume and say that you support both Vmware AND Azure on the job :]
You would still want to get the Certs, and Learn/Lab the heck out of the tech.
Heck, pay microsft directly for Azure's service.
If you can Learn the product Well enough to PASS any technical interviews.... what can anyone really say?

dialectical wrote: »

Either way, before I make any plans, I'm going straight for the CCNP because I believe every single tech job out there would respect that since everything runs on networks... but I am not getting actual networking experience of any substance.

a CCNP without CCNP experience... probably wont get you very far (my opinion).

dialectical wrote: »

You're kind of scaring me that I would never be able to brute force my way into full-time AWS or Azure work with certifications alone, education, and "related" cloud experience.

Meh... it's not impossible.
but Again, it kinda depends how far you are willing to stretch the truth on your resume :]

It might be time to think about "Abandoning Ship" on S.S.VMware...
(or, at least, time to prep the lifeboats)

UncleB wrote: »

I think an important thing to be aware of is that it is probably more effective to find the most adopted thing rather than the best thing as this is where the jobs will be. History is littered with the corpses of better technologies that were not successful because the inferior ones had better marketing / access to market

Another eloquent gem by UncleB :]

NetworkNewb

The network architect at my company has their MSCE and CCNP... And the Network Admin at the company I worked at before that had their MSCE and CCNP. Not sure if that is the norm, just my experience.

volfkhat

NetworkNewb wrote: »

The network architect at my company has their MSCE and CCNP... And the Network Admin at the company I worked at before that had their MSCE and CCNP. Not sure if that is the norm, just my experience.

lol
i knew this post was coming :]

I guess i'll say this:
I can see someone starting as a Server guy... and then earning his MCSE after 5-7 years.
At some point later,
They get bored, and decide to jump into Networking... and 5-7 years later --> CCNP (or CCIE).

Now, ThaT scenario makes sense.
But, to only have 2-3 years of EXP... and then deciding "I'm getting Both".... without yet having any hands-on EXP...
/shrug