Realistic Expectations

MontagueVandervort

Hi, I've been lurking around here for a while but haven't been able to get up the chutzpah to post. What I'm hoping for is that someone can break up my thought process in terms of "expectations" (hopes really).

I'm 45 yrs old and I'm not saying I'm going to let that get in my way (if possible), but I would like to know what to honestly expect.

I have NO work history more or less (complicated story, please don't judge) and even the very little that I could put on my resume is almost 4 yrs old. So either way I've got a 4 yr gap.

I have very little education but I did finish both programs I started (and with honors, not that this probably even matters).

What I would like to understand is how realistic are my expectations in terms of the following sets:

1. I can't get anywhere at all. It's a hopeless cause (I'm leaning towards this being untrue if I try hard enough).
2. I can just expect a small amount of success enough to be able to at least support myself (This is where I mostly lay now in terms of where I think I should STOP my expectations).
3. I can become more successful than the average person (This is where I was where I was for a while but I'm starting to think it's unrealistic.)

Tell me what you think. Which one of the above is the most likely to happen. Or does it sit somewhere in between two of the numbers?

I know I'll get some responses that more or less say we can't know what will happen but I'm looking for unbiased logic. I don't know if I'm seeing things clearly or being too hopeful or not hopeful enough. I just don't know.

networker050184

Unfortunately, you're right, it's really hard to say what will happen without more info.

Assuming your gap isn't from prison or something else really crazy, I think you certainly have a chance to be more successful than the average person with hard work and dedication. It's not going to be quick or easy without a lot of qualifications, but hard work and self study pay off quick in this field once you can get someone to take that first chance on you. Getting above the average income in your area in 3-5 years time is certainly realistic.


Good luck!

PCTechLinc

In MY opinion, if I see no or little qualifications, what I look for is drive. If you are just starting for whatever reason, what are you doing to get to where you want? When I was an instructor at a local college, I had a student that was 65 that retired from fixing cars, and wanted to work in IT. Zero experience, but he showed up every day, did his work, asked questions, and eventually got his A+. I haven't heard from him in a while, but I think he's working as a Network Admin making around $25/hr.

Granted you may not be able to get the large salary right away, but if you start at the bottom and show your determination, you should be able to climb the ladder fairly quickly. That's not to say that unlawful discrimination doesn't happen, but if you don't quit, your persistence will eventually get you where you want to be.

It's NEVER too late, and the only person who is going to hold you back is you. Best of luck!

MontagueVandervort

Thanks networker! That's really not the reply I was expecting lulz.

I thought like that for a long time but then I don't know. I was trying to regauge my mentality to make sure I was being realistic and logical in my approach. No my gap's not from prison. It's not from anything that would show up on paper or in a background check.

MontagueVandervort

PCTechLink ok thanks. It looks promising so far from what I'm hearing in feedback here. More promising than I thought after I was starting to reassess my ideas. I thought maybe I was being delusional about it all and needed to "come down" to a more realistic stance.

paul78

You probably won't really know until you try. Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised.

So to elaborate on what others have said - if you have no experience - you have to be prepared to explain why drives you and why you want to be in a tech profession. Assuming that you work hard and earn some qualifications as a start - maybe get a certification in the area you are interested.

As you submit your resume - your resume will simply look like someone looking for his/her first job - so at that stage - you are likely on equal footing with any other job-seeker. It's during the interview process that you will have to win the job. I don't usually interview people for entry level positions. But as a hiring manager, if someone in your position was to interview with me - first - I would never ask about personal background as it is inappropriate. I would generally start with why you want to be in this profession, what drew you to technology, and what you have learned so far. But to be blunt - if you looked other than a typical kid looking for a first job I would probably pose the question "can you tell me what other unrelated work experience you have which may not be on your resume?" as a way to see how you would answer.

Good luck.

scenicroute

This may be relevant to your situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ieyj7_n6XA

NetworkNewb

I know some people are not a fan of that guy, but I like his videos. Just says whatever he thinks.

scenicroute

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I know some people are not a fan of that guy, but I like his videos. Just says whatever he thinks.

Yeah, he's pretty straightforward. Also the comments on his videos can be helpful for information and opinions as well.

mzx380

Without more information it would be tough to say. Why do you have a gap? What career track are you looking at? I'm not saying it's going to be easy but it is doable. The only thing you have against you is that you do not a whole lot of time to figure things out and must have laser-like focus in developing a career track for yourself. You are not "over the hill" yet but the time for you to develop work experience so you do not suffer from discrete ageism is NOW.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

yoba222

My vote is set #3. You can get there after a couple of years in my opinion. And this can be done by demonstrating a couple years of history of valuable work. But you'll need to get your foot in the door first. To get hired entry level in tech you'll need some certs at a minimum, since college degree is obviously not realistic today. So likely a few weeks to months of getting certs is step one.

In my opinion, rising above the average person is easier than it sounds simply because the average person is lazier than they should be.

PCTechLinc

I saw this article a few years ago, and although it's not by any means practical, it's still worth a read:

Michigan Man Has 29 College Degrees and Isn't Stopping - ABC News

volfkhat

my 2 cents:
First,
You need to have a legitimate PASSION for some discipline of I.T.

Second,
you need to have some LUCK.

that's about it.

If you're trying to do IT because you heard you can "make a lot of money blah blah"...... you probably ain't gonna make it.

If you local community-college has a worthwhile program, you can build a great Foundation earning your Associates.
Or you can self-train (which is harder; but youtube is your tool; check out -> Professor Messer).

ANd you definitely need to find people who are More Knowledgable than you; and willing to Mentor and teach you.


The resume is easy; Don't worry about the previous 47 years.
Assume you are 17 yrs and coming out of highschool.
Start building from there.

MontagueVandervort

Thank you all for your responses and wishes of good luck.

Individual responses: (you can just skip these and go to the "general response" if you don't want to read a huge wall of text)

I really liked paul78's potential question of "Can you tell me what other unrelated work experience you have which may not be on your resume?" I wish someone would ask me something like this during a job interview because a lot of my experience is from self-learning/teaching.

scenicroute, thanks for the vid share.I wouldn't mind anything he says about the responsibilities. In fact, I would really enjoy all of that lulz. Also, I really don't care about the hourly pay. The monthly and annual pay is much more important to me as I'm more concerned about being able to save for the future. In terms of the whole personality thing. I don't know. I haven't seen that in IT so far. Everyone I've met in IT so far seemed too laid back about everything. Even if he is right (which he probably is?), I have no issues with that. I would like to see that! I think I mostly met people who went into IT because of $ and not because of passion. It was disappointing.

mzx380, thanks for the confirmation on the whole "not a lot of time, must have laser-like focus" idea. I feel that it's crucial that I don't waste time. I just wasn't sure if I was out of time already or not.

Agree with yoba's statement of the average person being lazier than they should be. I've also noticed most people really don't have much of a drive.

PCTechLink, for a while I wondered what the point of the article was but then at the end I realized you must have given it to me because of the "never give up your aspirations" point. Point taken, thank you.

volfkhat, I have a passion for EVERYTHING I.T or electronic. I eat it. It's nothing to do with money. I just want enough (money) to live.


General Response:

To sum it all up of what I see is a common theme in everyone's responses is a need for more info.

My life is something like this...
Had a great fascination for anything electronic as a kid. Dabbled in anything I could get my hands on. In my mid 20s, started playing around with OS (Win), Hardware, DOS and (VERY little) Linux. Played around with Programming but came to the conclusion that I didn't like it so stuck with OS and Hardware.

When I was 37 I went to school for a Computer Technology type of certificate at a community college but then there were two free engineering classes advertized, so I took them (in addition to my regular classes) since I thought it would be interesting/challenging. That was a summer semester, my first semester. Got an A in everything and that led me to have a lot more interest in Networking. I now have 2 community college certificates (1 Networking, 1 CISCO).

Had three jobs while I was in school but they're not that great.

Job 1 - I went through paid training but then was never "instituted" (federal lulz)
Job 2 - Was 6 months but it wasn't an official job - just a volunteer position I took to have some experience on my resume
Job 3 - Was work-study in school

Only jobs 2 and 3 are IT. Summer of 2013 I finished my second (community college) cert and my work-study ended. That's where my gap starts.

I have a gap that goes from there to now. I guess I'm worried about this more than anything else. Why do I have a gap of almost 4 yrs? In a way I wish I could answer that, but it's better that I don't. It doesn't have anything to do with lack of interest though.

Definitely fully decided on Networking (Cisco) as my track.

So far of what I've seen I really need to focus on studying for a CCNA and learning VMware and then try to get employed. That's as far as I've gotten in the thought process that's solid. If anyone has any other thoughts/recommendations, feel free.

volfkhat

MontagueVandervort wrote: »

I have a gap that goes from there to now. I guess I'm worried about this more than anything else. Why do I have a gap of almost 4 yrs? In a way I wish I could answer that, but it's better that I don't.

Well,
you're going to have to come up with an answer, my friend.

It doesn't have to be the Truth... but it does have to sound believable :]

Be as creative as you want; as long as your "answer" can pass a criminal-background-check... i wouldn't worry.
Then, craft a resume that corroborates your "answer".


CCNA and VMWARE are different disciplines.
You probably need to choose one; and focus your efforts there.

If you get your ccna... with Zero direct Experience..... you can still land a NOC position somewhere.

If you get a vcp-something... with Zero direct Experience... maybe you can land a job at McDonalds (imo).

If you know you like O.S. & Hardware... then maybe you should think about the A+ certification. With a little luck, you could work towards being a desktop tech.


In the meantime, go find a part-time job. ANY job.
helpdesk.
IT callcenter.
Non-IT callcenter.
Fastfood.
Stocking shelves.
security guard.
hardware store.
movie theater.
front desk.
bartender.
janitor.
whatever.

just find something to build some employment history...

EANx

volfkhat wrote: »

If you get your ccna... with Zero direct Experience..... you can still land a NOC position somewhere.

If you get a vcp-something... with Zero direct Experience... maybe you can land a job at McDonalds (imo).

If I had someone with a VCP-DCV who talked about his home lab and the stuff he had learned playing around with hand-on labs, I'd probably give him a shot as a junior admin. Passion for IT and a drive to learn are the most important qualities I tend to look for.

volfkhat

EANx wrote: »

If I had someone with a VCP-DCV who talked about his home lab and the stuff he had learned playing around with hand-on labs, I'd probably give him a shot as a junior admin. Passion for IT and a drive to learn are the most important qualities I tend to look for.

Fair enough.

Home-labs are great for trying to be a desktop tech.
Home-labs are great for trying to be a "server" admin.
Home-labs are great for a lot of things.

But for someone with No prior experience (desktop/server/anything).... i'm not sure jumping straight into VMware is going to pay off

(but what do i know)

MontagueVandervort

volfkhat wrote: »

Well,
you're going to have to come up with an answer, my friend.

It doesn't have to be the Truth... but it does have to sound believable :]

I don't know about that. I don't want to lie. I'll work it out somehow. I just haven't figured out how yet.

volfkhat wrote:

CCNA and VMWARE are different disciplines.

I realize that, but I see it on about 80% - 85% of job ads, plus I have the interest, so I figured it's a solid idea. I'm going to hit the CCNA material first though.

volfkhat wrote:

If you know you like O.S. & Hardware... then maybe you should think about the A+ certification. With a little luck, you could work towards being a desktop tech.

I actually thought about this, but I did that for so long and feel I've moved on from it. It didn't seem like a good idea to go backwards in steps though. I thought it best to continue on from where I left off. Also seems like more of a future in CCNA than in just A+.

volfkhat wrote:

In the meantime, go find a part-time job. ANY job.

Soon but not yet. I have too much on my back right now to add a job to it. I want to use whatever time I do have for studying. I hope to start in six months to a year. Hopefully more around the six month mark than the year mark, but I'm only one person and doing the best I can.

alias454

Truth of the matter is, if you don't provide an answer/cause/whatever, people will make up something on their own. You want to control the narrative to place yourself in the best possible light when looking for jobs.

I also recommend not lying. It seems like you are adverse to this as well, which is good. Honesty is the best policy.
We all make mistakes (some larger than others) but how we deal with the result says a lot about a person's character. It might make your go tougher but in the end, you will be better off.

MontagueVandervort

Yeah I don't know what to do in terms of an answer if someone asks. I guess I'm hoping someone won't or that I can somehow put what I've actually been doing for the time on my resume. I don't know. I've been wracking my brain out for months trying to organize these thoughts.

Yeah I don't want to lie. It's just not right and then also puts that bad karma on you. Definitely not the way I want to go. And yeah I haven't really made any mistakes or done anything wrong. I just haven't been able to work for the time.

I just hope somebody won't ask, or I can find a way to hide the gap. I don't know.

TechGromit

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I know some people are not a fan of that guy, but I like his videos. Just says whatever he thinks.

I agree with him, I think along the same lines. Take an electrician for example, after you obtain your license, earning 60k a year, it's minimal effort to maintain in and there hasn't been radial changes to the field in 30 years. Sure new electrical codes come out every 3 years, new products come along, but it's not like technology where you could be at the top of your game, making 60k a year supporting 3Com network equipment and OS/2, only to have new technology or even a shift in company policy for the vendor your an expert in make your knowledge irrelevant. IT can be a brutal industry, if you specialize too much in any one vendors product, you could end up starting from square one again.

Iristheangel

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I know some people are not a fan of that guy, but I like his videos. Just says whatever he thinks.

My big thing with Eli is that outside of his YouTube channel and his computer repair shop, what's he been doing in the IT field? For example, he's talking about how he hates being woken up in the middle of the night and how he worked all these hours in the video above, but he doesn't take into account non-ops jobs like architecture. He's also talking about support jobs and the technology disappearing but not every IT job is a random support job.

He may say whatever he thinks but I would say take it with a grain of salt because from the sounds of it, his experience in the wide world of IT is somewhat limited to his youtube channel and some experience back in the day where he was oncall a lot. Does a lot of enterprise jobs have oncall portions? Sure.... but there's also a lot of options where you never had to be oncall or supporting a certain technology. Sounds like he was a bit jaded by the experience.