Manager Leaving: Possible Promotion and Raise

f16jetman

My manager put in his 2 weeks yesterday and is moving out of country. He told me I need to ask for a job title change to Sys Admin (I wanna ask for Senior Sys Admin), a 20,000 raise and not settle for less than 10,000. He said I am worth the money and I should be able to get something since I will be the sole IT guy now.

I am going to talk to HR and the CFO on Thursday.

If you are a praying person send up a prayer for me!

PCTechLinc

Best of luck! I'm curious to see how it goes!

Danielh22185

Good luck! Curious why it took him leaving to tell you to ask for what you are worth.

greg9891

I Got you man. Will send up a prayer for ya.

ratbuddy

Make sure to go in there with more than just 'I deserve more money.' Play up how you'll be taking on more (and bigger) responsibilities going forward.

100k

Good luck guy!

shimasensei

Great opportunity, good luck!

f16jetman

Well looks like no raise for this guy soon. Apparently, a layoff is happening in 2 days and I was going to be on the original layoff list. Now that my boss is leaving I am off the list. The CFO told me he will change my Job title to System Administrator and have the possibility of a raise in 2-3 months.

I am learning Linux as best as I can because a Facebook Data center is opening up 5 minutes from my house next year and I want to be one of the few hired. So I will hang out here for just a little bit longer.

PCTechLinc

Well at least you get to stick around a bit longer. Good to know that you're no longer on the list, but definitely means you could be on a list later on. Hope you get to stay until FB shows up, then you can jump ship.

UnixGuy

What a sneaky way to decline the raise:

"Oh we were going to lay you off....now you get to keep your job!!!!!!"

UncleB

f16jetman wrote: »

Well looks like no raise for this guy soon. Apparently, a layoff is happening in 2 days and I was going to be on the original layoff list. Now that my boss is leaving I am off the list.

Get out of there as soon as you possibly can. This shows they considered you quite dispensable and as soon as a new manager comes in, you will be kicked out in the next wave of layoffs or even as soon as you train the new manager in what you do.

Expect tasks of documentation to be added to your workload any day now on the pretext it is to help get the new manager trained up, but it will be to take the knowledge from you before they cut you loose.

That would be my interpritaton of your current situation, sorry if it is a little harsh but I've seen this too many times for comfort.

I would kick the certification planning into high gear, rework your CV and approach companies around you with a view to seeing if they would be interested - all the while job hunting through the normal channels.

scaredoftests

..well that stinks..

f16jetman

UncleB wrote: »

Get out of there as soon as you possibly can. This shows they considered you quite dispensable and as soon as a new manager comes in, you will be kicked out in the next wave of layoffs or even as soon as you train the new manager in what you do.

Expect tasks of documentation to be added to your workload any day now on the pretext it is to help get the new manager trained up, but it will be to take the knowledge from you before they cut you loose.



That would be my interpritaton of your current situation, sorry if it is a little harsh but I've seen this too many times for comfort.

I would kick the certification planning into high gear, rework your CV and approach companies around you with a view to seeing if they would be interested - all the while job hunting through the normal channels.

They aren't replacing the manager I am in a sense taking his place without his title (or pay).

Mike7

I concur with UncleB; they can still migrate everything to the cloud and outsource your role to external vendor. Start beefing up your CV, upgrade your skills and search around.


I think it is too risky to wait for Facebook DC more than 8 months later. Not sure about Facebook, I expect AWS, Azure and most cloud provider DCs to be highly automated. Facebook may be looking for just two or three highly experienced engineers to manage the entire infra.

UncleB

f16jetman wrote: »

They aren't replacing the manager I am in a sense taking his place without his title (or pay).

Or - they need you to do his role while they find a replacement for can cover both you and him. Unless you already have good management skills you are not a natural fit in the upper managemeny eyes.

They have already made it clear you are mostly surplus to requirements now and if they thought you a natural replacement for him then they would have sacked him and given you his responsibilities anyway (instead of dumping you and keeping him as they planned - you would be cheaper).

I've seen this happen many times and one way to confirm your suspicions is to ask in writing if you can be promoted to the position - if you get an evasive answer then you are just the soldier being ordered to lie on the barbed wire so the new manager can walk over you when they get hired (this can take several months to hire so expect discussions of "lets see how you do for the rest of the year and we will talk again").

Keep a close eye on the places the company advertises vacancies and as soon as you see a role that matches this one (it may well be more vaguely worded than normal for legal reasons), you know your days really are limited.

Managers prefer to hire other managers with proven experience rather than take a risk and promote a techie, largely because we rarely have the social skills to cut it as a leader. Unless your bosses boss really has your back, I think you will just not be seen as a realistic long term fit I'm afraid.

There are steps you can take to raise your profile further up the chain but I would strongly suggest preparing to leave as there are multiple red flags here.

volfkhat

f16jetman wrote: »

Well looks like no raise for this guy soon. Apparently, a layoff is happening in 2 days and I was going to be on the original layoff list. Now that my boss is leaving I am off the list. The CFO told me he will change my Job title to System Administrator and have the possibility of a raise in 2-3 months.

lol
that's a good one!! i'll have to remember that excuse; the next time i need to dodge responsibility.

Negotiation is all about leverage:
Either YOU have it... or your employer does.

i guess the thought of being laid off "in 2 days" is a devastating scenario for your finances?
If so... then i guess you didnt have any leverage

But i digress.
Let's point out the obvious:
Your Boss just put in his 2-week notice.
Your employer is gonna do layoffs in 2 days.
Coincidence?

Conclusion:
Your Employer is a sinking ship... and your Boss just hopped into a lifeboat.
Should you be trying to stick around for the next 6+ months?

I know you had a plan:
Stick with current employer until FB datacenter opens,
then immediately Quit and work at FB.

Good plan.
except, you almost got fired this week (assuming the layoffs are legit).... so you would have been out of a job, regardless.

So... maybe you need a backup plan?

cyberguypr

f16jetman wrote: »

The CFO told me he will change my Job title to System Administrator and have the possibility of a raise in 2-3 months.

Translation: "We told him what he needs to hear now. Let's keep moving along trimming where we can and plan for his replacement".

This is the exact same thing that happened a my previous employer. They did 3 rounds of layoffs totaling 20% of the company out the door when they were supposed to just trim "a few positions". You need a backup plan NOW.

NetworkNewb

cyberguypr wrote: »

Translation: "We told him what he needs to hear now."

I feel like this happens a lot, at least to me at my last couple jobs. Not the same situation as the OP, but Managers saying certain things will happen, and they never actually get around to happening... Pretty sure they just say things so I just stick around longer. I've just learned to take everything with a grain of salt until they actually happen. Always look out for yourself and don't depend on others to make things happen.

blargoe

I agree with the above... keep your ear to the ground for another role. If you were already kinda a system administrator before, now you have the title and you can use that to your advantage. Do all the learning you can toward whatever you want your next role to entail.

sillymcnasty

"They're gonna pay you what all jobs pay; less than you're worth but just enough to keep you crawling back for more."

anhtran35

Look for a new OPPT ASAP. This company doesn't deserve you.

f16jetman

Everyone's reply makes perfect sense and I agree with all of the above.

To answer a few questions:

Yes, the layoff is happening starting today. IT was given a list of who is being separated from the company.
Yes, I was originally planned to be laid off, but now I am not because my boss is leaving.
My boss did NOT know about the layoff until he put in his notice, thus finding out I was slated to be laid off.
My boss and I have been suspicious for a few weeks that a layoff was in the works.

I have only been at my current position for 3 months, I came here because I was laid off from my last job so I know first hand that my days are probably numbered, even though I have been assured they are not replacing my manager or bringing in an MSP.

My only problem is I gave my word while in the interview process that I would not seek employment for a year after being hired. I know that was probably foolish to promise in an interview, but I did so that's that. Considering the special circumstances I am going to get advice about leaving from my dad and my pastor and possibly some other wise people.
I want to maintain my integrity even if my employer will not do the same. If I am advised to seek other employment you better believe I will, but if I am advised to stay due to my original commitment I will stay for another 8 months before leaving.

In the meantime I get hands on with VMware and all the Windows servers I could ever want. I will truly be the System Administrator.

PCTechLinc

Regardless what happens, I'm going to pray that it works out for the best for you.

UncleB

f16jetman wrote: »

My only problem is I gave my word while in the interview process that I would not seek employment for a year after being hired. I know that was probably foolish to promise in an interview, but I did so that's that. Considering the special circumstances I am going to get advice about leaving from my dad and my pastor and possibly some other wise people.

While I respect your moral standpoint here, don't you think the employer has broken this bond of trust by setting you up for disposal already? They would have known of the layoffs at hiring time at least at an HR level so they were clearly acting in bad faith (not your manager as they kept him in the dark too).

I would say the bond that holds you to your word has been broken so you need to look for what is the right thing for you now, and that is to get a job somewhere that does not treat you as disposable.

cyberguypr

Gave your word? Why in the world would you do that? A new employee has ZERO guarantee that a new role will be a good match for either part. To me it would be irresponsible to make such promise. If I'm the hiring manager and hear this during an interview it would throw me an immediate red flag and signal possible desperation on the candidate's side. If the hiring manager asks you to make such statement, that's even a worse red flag.

Listen man, you need to look out for yourself, no one else will. If you think your word is worth been unemployed and you can take the potential financial hit, then mark it as a lesson learned and now you just know better for next time. Very personal decision for sure.

f16jetman

cyberguypr wrote: »

Gave your word? Why in the world would you do that? A new employee has ZERO guarantee that a new role will be a good match for either part. To me it would be irresponsible to make such promise. If I'm the hiring manager and hear this during an interview it would throw me an immediate red flag and signal possible desperation on the candidate's side. If the hiring manager asks you to make such statement, that's even a worse red flag.

Call me young and naive. I had been unemployed for six weeks when I had the interview. When the HR director asked about my short tenure at some jobs she asked me if I would be willing to work there for at least a year, because they didn't want to hire someone who would be gone in a few weeks or months. I did what I had to do. I have a stay at home wife and young son, making me the sole bread winner.

And yes, if it came down to it my integrity would be worth being laid off or unemployed.

NetworkNewb

f16jetman wrote: »

I have a stay at home wife and young son, making me the sole bread winner.

And yes, if it came down to it my integrity would be worth being laid off or unemployed.

I'd lean towards providing for the family over my integrity personally.

But maybe you have a lot saved up and it would be OK for you.

DigitalZeroOne

f16jetman wrote: »

Call me young and naive. I had been unemployed for six weeks when I had the interview. When the HR director asked about my short tenure at some jobs she asked me if I would be willing to work there for at least a year, because they didn't want to hire someone who would be gone in a few weeks or months. I did what I had to do. I have a stay at home wife and young son, making me the sole bread winner.

And yes, if it came down to it my integrity would be worth being laid off or unemployed.

I guess I would consider myself old(er) and wise(r), that's what I tell myself at least. I've been in IT over 15 years, it's really close to 20, but I feel younger saying over 15. Unless it's in writing, I would leave as soon as you find something else...unless, and you seem to already mention this...unless you're about to get a lot of hands-on with new products.

You should really try and find out why you would have been let go, is it because you weren't needed due to lack of knowledge and experience? If that's the case, if you're about to gain experience with VMware and other technologies (assuming you want that), I would stay, gain the knowledge and then leave.

I'm confident that if I were let go, I would easily find something else very quickly, my 'job security' is what I know. I work as a vSphere Admin, I do some SAN Storage, a lot of PowerShell/PowerCLI, some SQL, and Windows administration. Years back I would have and did stay at jobs that I wanted to leave because I felt I lacked experience, now, I'll leave in a second.

A company will get rid of you, and they don't care about your wife, mortgage, kids, or anything else. It's good to have integrity, I won't leave a job just for more money, or just just because I don't like someone, or anything similar, if I like the job and what I'm doing, but if they treat me bad, I'll find a company that will treat me good.

Stay and learn if you feel that's the right move for the moment, but use this potential layoff as motivation to learn and gain experience, so that when you resign, they'll want to offer you more money to stay.

UncleB

f16jetman wrote: »

I have a stay at home wife and young son, making me the sole bread winner.

And yes, if it came down to it my integrity would be worth being laid off or unemployed.

You can't pay the rent or feed your family on integrity alone so you need to weigh up whether risking being homeless and hungry is worth doing so you can feel good about it. While your integrity is to be admired, I feel it is misplaced here and you need a reality check with your responsibilities.

I hope it all works out for you as I don't get the feeling you are likely to change your mind. Good luck sir.

cyberguypr

Nothing wrong with valuing integrity. I know tons of people that will gladly die at the hands of an attacker rather than defending themselves or protecting their loved ones. I rather see it the other way around. Best of luck.

anhtran35

f16jetman wrote: »

Call me young and naive. I had been unemployed for six weeks when I had the interview. When the HR director asked about my short tenure at some jobs she asked me if I would be willing to work there for at least a year, because they didn't want to hire someone who would be gone in a few weeks or months. I did what I had to do. I have a stay at home wife and young son, making me the sole bread winner.

And yes, if it came down to it my integrity would be worth being laid off or unemployed.

Young and naïve comparison to those here that seems to be OLDER and WISER. Did your HR Director mention that you would be on the layoff list after less than 3 months? Didn't think so. You got PLAYED.