Catch-22: A Majority of Security Positions Require A Security Clearance

dizzy_kitty

I had a conversation with a classmate last night about how so many cyber security and some network positions require a security clearance. I understand why. I understand that due to the position one is exposed to sensitive information. The puzzling piece of this is how do you get a clearance when the jobs that require a clearance demand that you already have an active clearance? (Besides joining the military - and thank you to everyone who has served ) Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation? Is it a different situation, as in not a common requirement, around your location?

NetworkNewb

I see it sometimes as a requirement but not very often in my area. MN

MIME

I live in an area where this is a BIG issue (DC metropolitan). Tons and tons of jobs require clearances since so much of this area involves government contracting where the need for clearances is extremely common. I don't have a magic answer for you except for finding a job/company where they are willing to put you in for a clearance. I know that people will sometimes take an offer with one company where the job won't start until they have a clearance and then work another job while waiting for the clearance to go through and then once they have clearance leave the second job.

ITSec14

I have only seen that requirement if it's for federal contractors.

LordQarlyn

Try applying anyway. Sometimes, particularly for time and materials contracts, or cost plus, or any other type contract that the company gets paid per billable hour, they get desperate enough to sponsor a clearance for qualified individuals. Especially for Secret level clearances which tend to be much easier to obtain.

dizzy_kitty

LordQarlyn wrote: »

Try applying anyway. Sometimes, particularly for time and materials contracts, or cost plus, or any other type contract that the company gets paid per billable hour, they get desperate enough to sponsor a clearance for qualified individuals. Especially for Secret level clearances which tend to be much easier to obtain.

Ahh! Didn't know that was a possible situation. I won't get my hopes up but
... the worst they can say is no.

dmoore44

LordQarlyn wrote: »

Try applying anyway. Sometimes, particularly for time and materials contracts, or cost plus, or any other type contract that the company gets paid per billable hour, they get desperate enough to sponsor a clearance for qualified individuals. Especially for Secret level clearances which tend to be much easier to obtain.

Most staff aug contracts are written as CPFF or T&M - if it was simply FP or cost, there'd be too much risk forced back on the contractor, and only those trying to break in to the industry would bid, which would be too risky for the government. Anyway, the reason(s) that contracting companies want you to have a clearance in hand is due to the fact that they (a) cost money and (b) take time to adjudicate. Even if contracts are written as CPFF or T&M, the government may include a clause that stipulates no reimbursements for clearances, so the contractor is stuck holding the bag. Further, the government wants people to start RFN and not wait until a clearance has been adjudicated (this is especially true for TS and greater clearances). And finally, assuming that you find a contract where the government will reimburse clearance related costs, and is willing to wait, contractors are still reluctant to sponsor people without clearances because they don't want to risk spending the time/money to help you obtain something so valuable, only to have you bolt at the first higher paying job offer from a competitor. Anyway, back to OPs point... It is a bit of a catch-22, and there aren't many ways around it. The easiest way is obviously joining the military in some capacity. After that, it would be find a GS position - there are tons of internships and lower level positions open. If you're a recent graduate, talk to your school about STEM related government recruitment programs. After that, you're really searching for the unicorn contractor that's going to be willing to sponsor you for a clearance, and you see how difficult that is.

dizzy_kitty

dmoore44 wrote: »

Most staff aug contracts are written as CPFF or T&M - if it was simply FP or cost, there'd be too much risk forced back on the contractor, and only those trying to break in to the industry would bid, which would be too risky for the government. Anyway, the reason(s) that contracting companies want you to have a clearance in hand is due to the fact that they (a) cost money and (b) take time to adjudicate. Even if contracts are written as CPFF or T&M, the government may include a clause that stipulates no reimbursements for clearances, so the contractor is stuck holding the bag. Further, the government wants people to start RFN and not wait until a clearance has been adjudicated (this is especially true for TS and greater clearances). And finally, assuming that you find a contract where the government will reimburse clearance related costs, and is willing to wait, contractors are still reluctant to sponsor people without clearances because they don't want to risk spending the time/money to help you obtain something so valuable, only to have you bolt at the first higher paying job offer from a competitor. Anyway, back to OPs point... It is a bit of a catch-22, and there aren't many ways around it. The easiest way is obviously joining the military in some capacity. After that, it would be find a GS position - there are tons of internships and lower level positions open. If you're a recent graduate, talk to your school about STEM related government recruitment programs. After that, you're really searching for the unicorn contractor that's going to be willing to sponsor you for a clearance, and you see how difficult that is.

Thanks for the insight and advice. I'm already employed and making a salary that I'm happy with but it kind of seems like a company I'm forced to stay with. Great company. There are a few things that are iffy though that I rather not say to avoid putting the organization on blast on a tech forum. I bring resources to the table that I don't feel are being fully utilized because of a change of direction (beyond my control). The best I can do is mold my position to add on additional duties that will utilize my skills/graduate education/credentials. I'm have no problem with that but there are limitations of how far I can push the limits because of roles/job duties. So that causes me to feel like I can't grow into my full potential. The only way I see that happening is if I take a 50% pay cut or relocate.

Long story short. Although there are an abundant amount of positions available (woohoo!) a GOOD majority (90-95%) of jobs available require that handy dandy security clearance.
Does that possibly explain the shortage of cyber security personnel?

shochan

If your resume is good, they will hire you and put you thru the clearance procedure and be a contractor. I have no military experience and hold a public trust clearance...I worked in the private sector for 14yrs.

johndoee

shochan wrote: »

If your resume is good, they will hire you and put you thru the clearance procedure and be a contractor. I have no military experience and hold a public trust clearance...I worked in the private sector for 14yrs.

Point taken.

What has to be understood is that the requirements for obtaining a public trust clearance is nothing compared to a secret, or higher clearance. You can't compare a public trust to a secret just like you can't compare a secret to a top secret.

Truth be told, a public trust is the easiest to get. The key word in that sentence is easiest.

BlackBeret

This is definitely a problem in certain areas, but doesn't explain a shortage in the sector as a whole. The entire clearance process is related to government jobs. If you can get hired on as a GS/GG (direct government employee) they'll get you a clearance. Same goes for applying directly for any agency, military civilian personnel positions, etc. The only time it's really a catch-22 is if you live in an area heavy with government jobs and are trying to work for a contractor.

As others mentioned, most contractors will try to avoid hiring employees without a clearance, although some still will. It depends on the expertise of the person and what the company needs. Good reverse engineers for example are hard to find, contractors will hire them and sponsor them for a clearance. Everyone keeps mentioning money, but in the area I work all of the contract companies stopped sponsoring when the clearance process went from a few months to 18+ after USIS was dropped and OPM breached.

Another thing to keep in mind, is the cleared positions typically pay more, but a lot of the larger contractors (BAH, Lockheed, GDIT) have plenty of non-cleared contract jobs as well. I've known several people to start with them in one position, be put in for a clearance, and once it's processed moved over to another position. Same thing with internships at the contractors as well.

If you really want a clearance to open more doors, apply to every direct government and agency position that requires one, if you get hired, they'll process it. Also apply to non-cleared positions that you want at contractors with cleared jobs, then apply internally if they'll allow it.

shochan

johndoee wrote: »

Point taken.

What has to be understood is that the requirements for obtaining a public trust clearance is nothing compared to a secret, or higher clearance. You can't compare a public trust to a secret just like you can't compare a secret to a top secret.

Truth be told, a public trust is the easiest to get. The key word in that sentence is easiest.

I still had to tell my life story in 3hrs with FBI. But yeah, I didn't get a cavity search like a secret position would require.

EANx

BlackBeret wrote: »

The entire clearance process is related to government jobs. If you can get hired on as a GS/GG (direct government employee) they'll get you a clearance.

Not every Federal government job requires a clearance. If your job doesn't require it, you don't get it. I'm guessing that not many Forest Service Rangers have a clearance.

TechGuru80

Depends on the position, the company you are looking at, and the area of the country. If you live around a large military presence then yes a lot of jobs will require a clearance. Generally any company or department dealing with government will have large staffs because of stringent requirements...thats why they have a lot of jobs. Regular companies tend to run lean on staff. You can try applying to the jobs if you don't have a clearance, but depending on how bad somebody is needed and the job requirements or milestones...the company might not be willing to take a chance. If that is the area you want to get into, I would try to find jobs that say you must able to obtain the clearance...that's verbiage for they will sponsor you...but you cannot get one without a sponsor (company you are working for).

I would also max out the 8570 because a lot of jobs require some sort of certification...the more qualified you are the better chance you have.

mikey88

TS/SCI is the real unicorn with the most openings and biggest shortage of qualified personnel. Secret is not that bad. There are companies willing to sponsor, overseas especially.

yoba222

There are companies out there desperate enough to fill positions for a not so great role, where they'll pay for the clearance process to meet their gov contract's SLA. That's one way to get one, then you leave that job for something better.

LordQarlyn

yoba222 wrote: »

There are companies out there desperate enough to fill positions for a not so great role, where they'll pay for the clearance process to meet their gov contract's SLA. That's one way to get one, then you leave that job for something better.

That's right, especially for contracts with bottom feeders that require a minimum percent of the slots to be filled, they have little choice but to take anyone and try to sponsor a clearance.

JDMurray

Defense contractors would prefer to hire people who already have clearances so they don't need to spend the time and money hiring and processing candidates who may not pass the clearance vetting. If you have an expired clearance, just having a copy of your SF-86 will expedite processing and prove that you were cleared in the past and will be quicker to vet--assuming that you have kept your nose clean.

cshkuru

shochan wrote: »

I still had to tell my life story in 3hrs with FBI. But yeah, I didn't get a cavity search like a secret position would require.

I had a permanent secret with presidential access authorized (I had screened for both White House and Camp David duty at one point when I was in the Navy) and no one was ever contacted as part of the background check. I also never interviewed with the FBI although NIS (now NCIS) did comeby and ask me a couple questions about where I was born and had I ever been a communist. I contracted with DOE and had to get a position of public trust clearance and they contacted a number of former employers, my landlord and 3 of my friends. I think the difficulty all depends on who is doing the screening or maybe it's just a point in time thing. I initially got my secret clearance in 1985.

Blucodex

I don't agree that a majority require a clearance.

mbarrett

If most jobs require a clearance, and if it's true that a lot of jobs go un-filled, then one of two things will happen.
- Either they will get staffed by people holding the clearance but with less than desired skills - this is really hard to do in the DoD because of 8570 cert requirements.
- Or They will get staffed by people with the correct skillset, but not necessarily holding the clearance coming in the door. If a company decides to go this route, then it will be with the understanding that the company will sponsor the person for the security clearance. Many times, especially for the lower level clearances, people can be granted an interim clearance which will allow you to do the job while your security clearance application is still being processed.

dmoore44

dizzy_kitty wrote: »

Does that possibly explain the shortage of cyber security personnel?

Only in areas of the country where a clearance matters

We have plenty of InfoSec positions open here in Texas that are not government related, and it's incredibly hard to find qualified people; as such, the two outcomes are usually (1) hiring someone whose not really a fit for the role, hoping we can mold them to it, or (2) finding someone from DC or the Silicon Valley who wants to move somewhere more affordable.

dhay13

Not very common around Pittsburgh that a clearance is required for security positions. In fact, none of the maybe 25 or so interviews I have been to have required it. I currently work for a gov't contractor and had to get a public trust clearance but was hired without it and the agency sponsored me. Pretty simple process for Public Trust.

Moldygr33nb3an

If they need bodies, they will give you an interim. Ive seen it all the time. Like someone said, unless they specifically ask for it (usually 6-12month temp positions), apply for it anyway.

NOC-Ninja

its depend on how bad do they want you. they will usually get guys that have clearance coming from the desktop support.
there are different waves of people are applying:
1. guys that have clearance but are still looking for more money.
2. guys that have clearance but got laid off and looking for a job.
3. guys that are former military that had clearance, going to IT.
4. guys that have so much work experience, certs and credentials, but has no clearance.
5. me - guys that have clearance , certs , work experience and degrees, but looking for more money.
6. guys that have connection, a family or close friends of the employees in the company.

the best way to do it is find a job that will get you clearance even if its not a cybersec job.
In my experience, there are a demand of network guys.

scaredoftests

Apply for the job anyway. Especially if Secret. Some companies will sponsor.

McxRisley

A 3 hour interview with the FBI for public trust?!? I'm sorry but I don't buy that story. A Public Trust clearance is for any job that requires access to materials considered BELOW Secret. Also according to the government, a Public Trust clearance is not actually considered a clearance. I know that probably doesn't make sense to most but that is their official stance on it.

shochan

Oh, I just gonna make up $hit & post it here. <insert sarcasm>

the_Grinch

I'll offer a suggestion that probably won't go over well, but here it goes. My buddy's fiancee just completed her Masters in Public Administration and wanted a job. They're in the MD/VA/DC area so obviously that is all government and clearance work. She couldn't find anyone to sponsor her for a clearance in position she was interested in and was consistent with her training. Thus what she did was take a secretarial position with the clearance level she would require for jobs she wanted. Bam she gets the job, gets cleared and can now apply when she's ready for a different position.

Thus my suggestion would be to take a position perhaps you are overqualified for in order to get the clearance and then (perhaps after some time) apply for other positions. Your company might have positions that fit the build or you can look elsewhere. Want a security spot? Take a desktop support position and get cleared. Keeps you in the tech arena and gets you cleared.

scaredoftests

That is what I did. Nothing wrong with that.