New to TE, trying to shift gears after 12 years so far in IT

Squished

Hi All, new to the group here. I've been in IT for roughly 12 years now. Started off like everyone as a desktop analyst and have most recently for the last 8 years been Manager/Director of IT for a decent size ($10m) non-profit with a few people working under me. The job I miss the most I think is working for a private DoD contractor in the InfoSec line of work. I was very entry level doing it 9 years ago, but I should have pursued it, and didn't.

At this point now, my career is stale due to the non-profit. Totally sucks. Haven't got a raise/promotion in 6+ years (no where to go) and due to the nature of the business we're not even getting cost of living increases. I need a change. I managed to convince my office to allocate some funding for me for some training so with that my intention is to back and get my A+, Network+, Security+, Cloud+, and Project+ certifications within in the next 4-5 months and I already enrolled to start a Master's program in the fall. I already have ITIL v3 Foundation, but haven't quite decided how far to pursue that yet.

I know the first thing people will say is don't bother with A+, but I figure since my career has been so stale, the more letters with +'s I can put next to my name, the quicker opportunities may come available for me to move on. I really think I'm going to push back towards the InfoSec field and realize I'm probably going to have to take 5 steps backwards in my career to do it, but I think it could be rewarding.

Do you all think I'm a little too ambitious going for 5 certifications in 5 months and then starting a Master's program? Will someone hire a mid-senior level manager like me without the Master's degree or should I just plan on staying here for a few more years? Not sure I have it left in me!

Looking forward to seeing what people think. Thanks!

scaredoftests

Yes, quite ambitious. Why don't you send out your resume to jobs that you are interested in and see if you get any bites?

JDMurray

Squished wrote: »

Do you all think I'm a little too ambitious going for 5 certifications in 5 months and then starting a Master's program?

You sound very motivated, but is your intent to really learn the material or just get the paper? Five certs in five months is just cramming for paper. You need to be able to demonstrate in an interview (and on the job) that you really know your stuff. Certs on your resume only help you get a first-round interview, but the education you acquire from studying for the certs is what you use to get the job.

Squished wrote: »

Will someone hire a mid-senior level manager like me without the Master's degree or should I just plan on staying here for a few more years? Not sure I have it left in me!

How will staying in your current, dead-end job few more years make you more attractive to hiring managers? If your job is not demanding, and it pays your bills, then it sounds ideal to stay while you are working through a Masters program (1.5-3 years). Without the Masters degree you are behind all of your competition that does have a Masters. And please, try and learn something.

Squished

scaredoftests wrote: »

Yes, quite ambitious. Why don't you send out your resume to jobs that you are interested in and see if you get any bites?

Have been and been getting bites, so that's a good thing! Interviews next week.

scaredoftests

He has been at the job for 8 years....

Squished

JDMurray wrote: »

You sound very motivated, but is your intent to really learn the material or just get the paper? Five certs in five months is just cramming for paper. You need to be able to demonstrate in an interview (and on the job) that you really know your stuff. Certs on your resume only help you get a first-round interview, but the education you acquire from studying for the certs is what you use to get the job.

I actually genuinely do want to learn the material, especially the Security+ stuff. A+ and Network+ are refreshers for me. I had them and let them lapse figuring I won't need them again. Wrong. I just did the A+ exam with my eyes closed and suspect Network+ is going to be just alot of brushing up on stuff I haven't used in a while.

JDMurray wrote: »

How will staying in your current, dead-end job few more years make you more attractive to hiring managers? If your job is not demanding, and it pays your bills, then it sounds ideal to stay while you are working through a Masters program (1.5-3 years). Without the Masters degree you are behind all of your competition that does have a Masters. And please, try and learn something.

It won't. Staying in this position is detrimental to my career at this point. The only thing I can do right now is education/training/certification to make me more attractive. I can't get promoted, I can't do anything different, and we have no money for new initiatives. The job itself is not demanding, but due to lifestyle changes (kids) it's just barely keeping me above water on the financial end.

Trust me, the plan is to LEARN. I've missed too much staying in this job sadly. It sucks.

averageguy72

Is the Network+ for the Masters program? If not, CCNA would probably give you more bang for the buck if you're going to be job hunting.

Squished

averageguy72 wrote: »

Is the Network+ for the Masters program? If not, CCNA would probably give you more bang for the buck if you're going to be job hunting.

Mainly just staying in the CompTIA realm because I enjoy iy. I also want to grab S+. Maybe I will do CCNA as well.

N7Valiant

Seems redundant. Your experience will matter far more than certs. You can just grab only the Sec+ to ensure you're somewhat up-to-date on current security threats. I grabbed all 3 because it was the beginning of my career. But if your practical knowledge and skills outstrip all that, only higher level certs would help get you noticed.

Squished

N7Valiant wrote: »

Seems redundant. Your experience will matter far more than certs. You can just grab only the Sec+ to ensure you're somewhat up-to-date on current security threats. I grabbed all 3 because it was the beginning of my career. But if your practical knowledge and skills outstrip all that, only higher level certs would help get you noticed.

The reason this came up for me is what I'm seeing on a lot of mid-to senior level jobs is that they are asking not only for progression in the job itself, but also progression in training/education/certification. Basically they know you're going to get experience on the job, but they also want to see you're keeping up with yourself. Which unfortunately for me, I haven't been.

Squished

JDMurray, it won't seem to let me reply to you. I submitted a reply but then said it needs to be approved for posted. Sorry, not ignoring you!

mzx380

I'd have to agree with your initial assessment that the CompTIA suite of certifications is too basic. For some substance, you're better off jumping right into a senior certification that aligns with your career goals. Also, I'd have to agree with another post here that if your job is not going anywhere anytime soon, then you are better off completing your graduate degree. Also, have managed expectations about what the next steps are going to look like. As someone who also worked for an NGO, please note that just because you were a Director of IT there doesn't mean it will immediately translate to something in the private sector especially if your skills are stale.

I've been where you are now. I made a post about this very same thing a few years ago, have a look, it might provide perspective.
Good luck

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/123500-my-whirwind-year-things-i-learned-2016-a.html

Squished

mzx380 wrote: »

I'd have to agree with your initial assessment that the CompTIA suite of certifications is too basic. For some substance, you're better off jumping right into a senior certification that aligns with your career goals. Also, I'd have to agree with another post here that if your job is not going anywhere anytime soon, then you are better off completing your graduate degree. Also, have managed expectations about what the next steps are going to look like. As someone who also worked for an NGO, please note that just because you were a Director of IT there doesn't mean it will immediately translate to something in the private sector especially if your skills are stale.

I've been where you are now. I made a post about this very same thing a few years ago, have a look, it might provide perspective.
Good luck

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/123500-my-whirwind-year-things-i-learned-2016-a.html

Thanks for the message. No doubt the initial CompTIA ones are basic, but I can get them now which is better than nothing and it's going to be a few years before I get my Master's. It's not one or the other, I'm actually going to do both. Obviously timing is everything. I actually hope to continue through the Security suite with CompTIA CySA and CASP exams as I can.

110% understand managed expectations. I expect to go quite a few steps back to get out of those role and I'm comfortable with that. I figure at this point in time I'll transition out of this role to start learning some new skills and then in 3 years when I finish my Master's, I'll transition again to a new senior level role. I have quite a few years of experience, but I still am very young in my overall career. Plenty of time to move around.

I'll read over your post as soon as I get a chance! Thanks!

NetworkNewb

I think you have a good idea of what you want to do, I'm just surprised anyone cares about most of those Comptia's certs outside of very entry level positions. At least the ones you mentioned. I agree with mzx380 in going for more advance certs that aligns with your goals on what exactly you want to do. Besides the Sec+ don't know if I ever see the ones you mentioned in info sec job ads.

Sounds like CISSP would be right up your alley with your experience. And then add on another cert that specializes in the area of security you want to focus on. Would be my plan anyways.

Squished

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I think you have a good idea of what you want to do, I'm just surprised anyone cares about most of those Comptia's certs outside of very entry level positions. At least the ones you mentioned. I agree with mzx380 in going for more advance certs that aligns with your goals on what exactly you want to do. Besides the Sec+ don't know if I ever see the ones you mentioned in info sec job ads.

Sounds like CISSP would be right up your alley with your experience. And then add on another cert that specializes in the area of security you want to focus on. Would be my plan anyways.

Agree. They do and they don't look for it. Again it comes down to timing. Reality is I'm not passing CISSP in 2-3 weeks. For the future, I'd love to do it. Just not a reality at the moment. I can pass Network+ and probably Security+ in 2-3 weeks intervals though. Security+ maybe a little longer, I haven't taken a look at the content yet. Remember, I essentially have a blank resume at the moment other than experience. My Bachelor's degree is more than 10+ years old, with no certs in between and my Master's degree is only going to be an "in process" with an "expected date". Just trying to get something on paper.

The reality is, and there's no sense BS'ing about it, I've been a bit complacent in my job for the last 8 years and it's kinda screwed me! The experiences I've learned though......those can't be replaced. I've installed IT systems in so many third world countries and other exotic places, it's been an awesome ride.

Squished

Also, for what it's worth. I've had two phone interviews already and not one, but both asked me about my technical capability given my years in management. I feel like even the basic A+, Network+, Security+ certs will help my case on this question regardless of what my response is on the phone. Maybe I'm wrong on this one?

UnixGuy

Can you elaborate more on what exactly within 'InfoSec' that you wish to do?

I'm going to advise against doing any CompTIA certs at all to be honest, maybe just do Security+ that's enough

If you want to do cloud security security stuff, do some Amazon AWS Certs, for example. If you want to get into Network Security do CCNA (don't waste time on you Network+), if you want to get into pentesting then look into some SANS certs (if your employer pays for them!) or some eLearnSecurity certs, think about eJPT as an entry level pentesting but will also give you a good background in security. or eLearnSecurity network defender certs..all those certs have a lot more value (knowledge-wise) than CompTIA+

Squished

That's a great question. I don't think I'm quite ready to answer that one completely. Back when I was a contractor for the dod I did a lot with malware and digital forensics which really interested me. I also have an interest in penetration testing. It was never a full-time job doing it so I really only got my feet wet. The other thing is I still love the management aspect of Information Technology overseeing an entire department and the budget that is involved. Project work, etc. Right now I just need to change into anything, I'm burnt out.

EANx

Squished wrote: »

Also, for what it's worth. I've had two phone interviews already and not one, but both asked me about my technical capability given my years in management. I feel like even the basic A+, Network+, Security+ certs will help my case on this question regardless of what my response is on the phone. Maybe I'm wrong on this one?

What types of jobs did you apply for? If they were supervising the people doing the work then I'm not surprised you were asked about your technical ability. With some organizations, they expect the immediate supervisor to be able to understand most of the roles there. Maybe not as a SME but enough to have an opinion when presented with options and asked "what do you think?" Other organizations want the supervisor to be able to do the work if necessary. When I hire a supervisor, I want that person to know what's going on and know if someone isn't doing their job right. That's a hard thing to do when you have no technical skills.

Depending on the role, the various certs may or may not be helpful. If you're interviewing as a deskside support manager, I could see A+ and Net+ helping while it would be a waste or even a detriment in other areas.

UnixGuy

To be honest, if you like the management side of things, then your masters degree should be management related (MBA, masters of management,..etc)

Look at CISM and CISSP


For Pentesting & Digital forensics, eLearnSecurity Courses are affordable, SANS if your employer pays


As far as CompTIA is concerned, I wouldn't do more than Security+ if I were you....

N7Valiant

Squished wrote: »

The reason this came up for me is what I'm seeing on a lot of mid-to senior level jobs is that they are asking not only for progression in the job itself, but also progression in training/education/certification. Basically they know you're going to get experience on the job, but they also want to see you're keeping up with yourself. Which unfortunately for me, I haven't been.

Well, speaking as someone fresh on the IT boat, those certs give you a broad foundation of knowledge and is just basically there to make sure you know the gist of things.

I can't say any of them actually helped me do my job at Help Desk in the least. IMO, it's just there so that you're not completely stumped when you're looking at an e-mail saying your website's certificate is going to expire soon. Would not impress anyone.

Bjcheung77

Basically, I always recommend 3 things on this board: 1) Degree, 2) Experience, 3) Certifications. You have the degree, you have years of experience, you're missing the certifications. I would recommend the CompTIA CASP. Anyways, since you mentioned you're into CompTIA - review theirs with this link, stack-able certifications: https://certification.comptia.org/certifications/which-certification/stackable-certifications

Squished

EANx wrote: »

What types of jobs did you apply for? If they were supervising the people doing the work then I'm not surprised you were asked about your technical ability. With some organizations, they expect the immediate supervisor to be able to understand most of the roles there. Maybe not as a SME but enough to have an opinion when presented with options and asked "what do you think?" Other organizations want the supervisor to be able to do the work if necessary. When I hire a supervisor, I want that person to know what's going on and know if someone isn't doing their job right. That's a hard thing to do when you have no technical skills.

Depending on the role, the various certs may or may not be helpful. If you're interviewing as a deskside support manager, I could see A+ and Net+ helping while it would be a waste or even a detriment in other areas.

Client Services Management roles, whether they are Manager of the help desk, Manager of IT Operations, etc. I can certain backup my technical ability, but I just think it's nice to have something on paper alluding to that fact as well, as simple as A+, Network+ and Security+ may be. There's no question right now given my career experience I'm better suited for one of these roles, but I don't think I want it being my long term role.

Squished

Bjcheung77 wrote: »

Basically, I always recommend 3 things on this board: 1) Degree, 2) Experience, 3) Certifications. You have the degree, you have years of experience, you're missing the certifications. I would recommend the CompTIA CASP. Anyways, since you mentioned you're into CompTIA - review theirs with this link, stack-able certifications: https://certification.comptia.org/certifications/which-certification/stackable-certifications

The stackable certs is exactly what I am going for. It's been almost 8 years since I took any CompTIA exam, so doing the A+, N+, S+ are just getting my feet went back into test taking and gives me a little title next to my name. After I finish S+ I plan to move to Cloud+. The more I read the more I am starting to think Project+ is useless, but we'll see. Maybe I'll swap out the CySA+ cert for that which would give me 3 stackable titles.

A comment was made that some certs can be detrimental. I would have to disagree with that. As a hiring manager, it shows me that regardless of your experience, you care somewhat about your industry versus someone who has the same experience with no industry certifications and/or training. Are some not needed for specific jobs? Absolutely. That doesn't mean they don't look good on the resume for the next potential gig. That's my biggest problem right now, I let myself get 5 steps behind my peers and now I need to play catch up and get on level ground and then get myself 5 steps ahead of them.

I do like the stackable certifications though from CompTIA. They seem like very reasonable stepping stones.

Squished

I just wanted to reiterate a thanks for all the comments so far. I realize I'm way behind the 8 ball on this one. I spent the last 8 years at this job investing in my house and my family while my company paid for me to travel to multiple countries on all continents overseeing all sorts of IT systems in the process. I've been fortunate enough to travel to Cambodia, Tanzania, Peru and other countries doing IT systems while learning incredible international business skills. However, now everyone else is taken care, time to invest in me. I realize it's not going to be an overnight thing or even a 2-3 month thing, but it's certainly the time.

mikey88

Sounds like you already have your mind made up about taking the CompTIA certs. Do what you think is best. 5 certs in 5 months is difficult but not impossible. I do agree with many others posters that a masters degree or senior level certs will benefit you more.

Squished

mikey88 wrote: »

Sounds like you already have your mind made up about taking the CompTIA certs. Do what you think is best. 5 certs in 5 months is difficult but not impossible. I do agree with many others posters that a masters degree or senior level certs will benefit you more.

No doubt. The Master's is happening I just won't have it for 2 years. Problem is I don't have 2 years left in this job. 100% pursuing the senior level certs....I'm just going to progress through all of them instead of skipping right to them.

yoba222

Squished wrote: »

. . . Remember, I essentially have a blank resume at the moment other than experience. . .

8 years experience as an IT director is not a blank resume. In fact, I'd say that alone is worth more than every Comptia plus exam combined.

Getting in five certs in five months borders on cramming just to get the pieces of paper. Cramming won't help on the advanced certs and it would have been for five pieces of paper you don't need.

Once you get a new job and that aspect is stable, I'd aim for a pace of 3-4 entry to mid-level per year.

Squished

yoba222 wrote: »

8 years experience as an IT director is not a blank resume. In fact, I'd say that alone is worth more than every Comptia plus exam combined.

Getting in five certs in five months borders on cramming just to get the pieces of paper. Cramming won't help on the advanced certs and it would have been for five pieces of paper you don't need.

Once you get a new job and that aspect is stable, I'd aim for a pace of 3-4 entry to mid-level per year.

Yep, I plan to do 1-2 advance per year after securing a new gig. I should have done it all along but didn't. Live and learn.

Squished

The more I read on this forum, the more I'm getting lost in the acronyms. I know where I want to get to, but I'm just not seeing a clear path there right now. Not one that makes me take so many steps backward that I simply can't afford.

scaredoftests

What are you interested in? If you are working, would your company pay for it? If so,go on from there.