And this is why I hate ALL recruiters

cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior MemberPosts: 6,594Mod Mod
I really try to give recruiters the benefit of the doubt every now and then but their soulless beings always disappoint me. A few weeks ago I came across that one job posting that stands out of the noise and make you got "Hmm...".

Recruiter 1 pitches the role through LinkedIn. I am intrigued so I ask for compensation right off the bat. Given the 10-15 hits I receive on a weekly basis this is my gating. He replies with the number. The base was a substantial increase over my compensation, similar benefits, same industry; it's a specialization extremely in line with my expertise. I'm honest and tell him that I have been eternally disappointed by recruiters. He says he's ben in the game for 20+ years, specializes in critical high profile hires, blah blah blah, and give me more details on his relationship with the current client. I like what I hear so I ask him for a time to talk. Then he goes radio silent. It has been 2 weeks now.

Recruiter 2 from another company pitches me the exact same role. Message seems canned so my BS radar goes off. I tell her that the roles does pique my interest, that another recruiter reached out and then ghosted me, but I was willing to hear more from her. She says that "given that another recruiter has already reached out to you on this position, it will be an overlap on my part. Will keep you posted on other suitable positions.” I get triggered and answer back indicating that this is an example on why I hate recruiters. I had to ELI5 that I never agreed to anything with previous recruiter and therefore her comment did not make any sense. She then replies with “send updated resume, your expected compensation, and your current one”. That is all I need to know to move on and add her to the wall of shame.

Recruiter 3 and 4 reach out with same job. Immediately ignore them because of multiple typical red flags.

Recruiter 5 reaches out. I tell him upfront I have received this exact same role from now 5 recruiters all claiming to be preferred vendors for the hiring company. I tell him sorry but coming off strong and that I am interested in the role but refuse to work with non-transparent agencies that give recruiters a bad name. He says he understands and even gives me names of people he has placed in the hiring company. I recognize two so he gets point in his favor. This guy seems like the real deal. I ask him about next steps if interested. He then tells me he got more info from the hiring manager and gives me this "Application security focus. Develops App Sec strategy, contributing to the broader security strategy." There’s a small problem: this role has zero to do with AppSec. I question him on this and he stands by it and says it came directly from the hiring VP. Weird. I then ask about next steps. He says that he “tried submitting someone today into the job portal but it said they weren’t accepting additional candidates, submissions may be resumed later. I’ll let you know what I hear”. I then go to the company’s portal directly and see that there’s no issue applying for that specific role. What the heck!

At this point I’m losing all interest. You may ask, why I didn’t apply directly to the company? Well’ the Infosec leadership at this company came from my current company. I know that in the past they have reached out to my current leadership to inquire about candidates that work/worked for us and were looking to move over there. I’m not ready for that call to happen since I’m only in an exploratory phase to see if the role is a good fit so my hope was that a good recruiter could relay this to the hiring manager before a formal application is submitted.

TLDR: Recruiter suck and always will!
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Comments

  • mactexmactex Posts: 70Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I don't post much on this forum; but I just logged in to say "wow". I've come across a few bad recruiters; but nothing like that.
  • LordQarlynLordQarlyn Posts: 535Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I've never been successfully placed by a recruiting or staffing agency. Every time I've been contacted it always has fallen through. Every job I've gotten I've applied and managed to navigate the ATS or get past the HR filters, or, I got in direct contact with the hiring manager, often both. I've never had recruiters like that but neither have I had any success with them.
  • networker050184networker050184 Posts: 11,962Mod Mod
    Pretty typical. Don't take it personal. The company is their client not you.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • iBrokeITiBrokeIT Posts: 1,151Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    ...but did you show them your CEH? Probably wouldn't have been ghosted if you did! icon_lol.gif
  • johndoeejohndoee Posts: 115Member
    Good Luck. I hope things get better.
  • gespensterngespenstern Posts: 1,243Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    Haha, good laugh!

    Also, direct applications all seem to be on taleo these days and it takes literally 30 mins of your time to go through it, not counting the time if you want to adapt your resume etc. The result is typically close to zero, i.e. it is a waste of time.
  • E Double UE Double U Posts: 1,467Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    I've only dealt with one recruiter that I felt was worth my time. Ended up landing me one of my favorite jobs throughout my career. That was my first time dealing with a recruiter so I wouldn't develop my negative view towards recruiters until years later.
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • PCTechLincPCTechLinc Senior Member King City, CAPosts: 545Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    iBrokeIT wrote: »
    ...but did you show them your CEH? Probably wouldn't have been ghosted if you did! icon_lol.gif

    That would only work if it's Revoked. :D
    Master of Business Administration in Information Technology Management - Western Governors University
    Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance - Western Governors University
    Bachelor of Science in Network Administration - Western Governors University
    Associate of Applied Science x4 - Heald College
  • scaredoftestsscaredoftests Senior Member behind youPosts: 2,587Mod Mod
    Agreed!
    Never let your fear decide your fate....
  • McxRisleyMcxRisley Eye of Barad-dûr Posts: 435Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I send all recruiters that I respond to the same message. Remote penetration tester in my area, 120K+ salary, non-negotiable. That gets rid of about 95% of them immediately. Of course I do this because I'm not really looking to change jobs but if something comes up that meets my criteria I "may" be interested.
    I'm not allowed to say what my previous occupation was, but let's just say it rhymes with architect.
  • NotHackingYouNotHackingYou Posts: 1,452Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    If I had a nickel for every time a recruiter said "send me your resume and...", then radio silence...
    When you go the extra mile, there's no traffic.
  • MalwareMikeMalwareMike Posts: 124Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    I dont know which one is worse, used car salesman or tech recruiter....
  • cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior Member Posts: 6,594Mod Mod
    OK, obligatory story of car salesmen. In the late fall/ early winter 2016 I was looking to buy a fun car, something I wanted to buy and certainly did not need (I told him this upfront). Went to see a left over new 2016 Mustang. Car was very nice. Advertised price was $35k. After I test drive the guy says price is $41k. I politely told him he was wrong and asked him to double check. He's a kid so I don't fault him, he had to go talk to the big guy for everything. Comes back saying the advertised price "was a mistake" but the would "do me a favor" and give it to me for $35k. Strike one. Next, I ask about the warranty. He says something that didn't make sense, like 20 months. Turns out they had to title the car for some reason and the warranty started counting a while ago. Strike 2.

    Finally, sensing more BS I purposely test him by saying I wanted to trade my daily driver (I had zero intention of doing this). Car is a near mint, low mileage German easily in the top 5% of similar cars in the region. The kid goes talks to the big kahuna and gives him the keys. After examining the car the kid comes to me and says kahuna offers $20k. Car was at least worth $30k in dealer trade-in, way more private party. I again ask him to double and triple check with kahuna because the number made zero sense. I reminded him that my car was the top trim in pristine shape with low miles. Kahuna then comes and starts "well, let me explain how cars work, they depreciate and are never worth what you pay...". Right then and there i loudly say 'STOP! Do I look 19? Do you patronize all your serious potential customers?" Kahuna's eyes opened wide as he wasn't expecting the backlash. I firmly said: "Last chance: is $20k your final offer?" He said yes, so I stood up, grabbed my keys and left. It was glorious seeing kahuna through my rear view mirror yelling and motioning me to please come back.

    I was so upset that the next day woke up early to go to the Chevy dealer down the road and ended up buying a Camaro from a superb salesman.

    TLDR: Most car salesmen, like recruiters, are the scum of the earth.
  • SquishedSquished Posts: 191Member
    I just won't work with them anymore. They are ALL the same, regardless of what they tell you. Have a nice talk with them and never hear from them again. The only ones I talk to now are recruiters from within the company the job is for. The rest of them just waste incredible amounts of time.
    [2018] - A+ 901 (PASS), A+ 902 (PASS), Project+ (PASS), Security+ (PASS), Network+(PASS), CySA, Cloud+
    [2018] - MBA - IT Management - WGU (PASS)

    HR: “What if we train them and they leave?”
    ME: “What if we don’t train them and they stay?”
  • E Double UE Double U Posts: 1,467Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    cyberguypr wrote: »
    "well, let me explain how cars work, they depreciate and are never worth what you pay...".

    You just seemed like you needed some mansplaining. He was only trying to help :D
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • PhalanxPhalanx I have many leatherbound books... United KingdomPosts: 330Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    E Double U wrote: »
    You just seemed like you needed some mansplaining. He was only trying to help :D

    When a daddy cardealer and a mommy car owner love each other very, very much...
    Data Privacy & Project/Service Management: PECB GDPR DPO/Practitioner | ITIL 2011: Foundation
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    Currently Studying: Project+
  • paul78paul78 Posts: 2,801Member ■■■■■■■■■■
    If I had a nickel for every time a recruiter said "send me your resume and...", then radio silence...
    For me, what usually happens is that I tell the recruiter "send me your job description..." and then I get radio silence.
  • nisti2nisti2 Posts: 442Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I hate recruiters they always do the same approach and once you are on their database there's no way out!.
    2018 Year goals:
    CCNA Cyber Ops [Done!]
    Extra goals: VCP6-DCV [1%] , CCENT-CCNA [2%]
    "Certs... is all about IT certs!"
  • NutsyNutsy Posts: 136Member
    These are my rules for dealing with recruiters:

    1) Internal recruiters for a company are usually good.
    2) Most solicitations from 3rd party companies are garbage.
    a) As paul78 mentioned asking for the job description, and any other specifics, usually kills the conversation.
    3) My resume is my resource. Recruiters ask for them so they can fill their "pipeline" with them. IE: I had a conversation with a former recruiter once who said they keep a matrix of resumes for each position. Thus, they have to have one for Jr/Mid/Sr for a give role at all times.
    4) Be skeptical at all times with recruiters.
    5) The end client is paying them, and the client is the customer. As a candidate, you are the resource.
    6) At the end of the day, the recruiter gets paid to fill a position. Thus, don't ever expect to get any big pay bump when going through a recruiter.
  • josephandrejosephandre Posts: 314Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    I am not here to stick up for recruiters, because they are a constant thorn in our collective sides, but these are all recruiters for the same role / company so it's hard to really count this as multiple strikes vs grouping them all together.

    I really loathe dealing with them though, my tactic has typically been when I get cold called I give them a number well above what I make or am looking for because it typically gets them to leave me alone immediately, or occasionally I'll get surprised and they'll say they can do it lol.
  • cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior Member Posts: 6,594Mod Mod
    I always been a recruiter hater, only reason I engaged them was becuase this is a $200k+ job. i would've thought at that level the usual games would not be an issue. Boy was I wrong.
  • LeBrokeLeBroke Posts: 484Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Recruiters are fine if they have you in mind for a specific role, and it's not a serious stretch (newly minted manager for an F500 director role).

    Ask for a JD, ask for salary, and if they don't line up with what you want, or can't provide it, tell them to pound sand.

    If they're hiring for a specific role, and it's a role you want, they're usually worth engaging. Definitely better than filling out applications on Taleo all day.

    Haven't had to really apply for a job in the last 3 job changes thanks to recruiters, so there's that. I just treat it like online dating and assume they're going to flake out on me, and the profile pic... job description is probably photoshopped.
  • PCTechLincPCTechLinc Senior Member King City, CAPosts: 545Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    LeBroke wrote: »
    I just treat it like online dating and assume they're going to flake out on me, and the profile pic... job description is probably photoshopped.

    Haha, I love that.
    Master of Business Administration in Information Technology Management - Western Governors University
    Master of Science in Information Security and Assurance - Western Governors University
    Bachelor of Science in Network Administration - Western Governors University
    Associate of Applied Science x4 - Heald College
  • TechGromitTechGromit Completely Clueless Ontario, NY Posts: 1,818Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    cyberguypr wrote: »
    Went to see a left over new 2016 Mustang. Car was very nice. Advertised price was $35k. After I test drive the guy says price is $41k.


    I think I would have walked when he told you it was 41k, when you said you liked it. If you really liked it would the price than be 43k? Loved it 45K?
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
  • LordQarlynLordQarlyn Posts: 535Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    cyberguypr wrote: »
    I always been a recruiter hater, only reason I engaged them was becuase this is a $200k+ job. i would've thought at that level the usual games would not be an issue. Boy was I wrong.

    No way, dude, they are usually worse the higher you go up! Honestly being qualified for that kind of a job, you should just find out the hiring manager and follow up after you did the formality of applying. They will appreciate getting a qualified candidate while bypassing the red tape and games of recruiters while not waiting around for the ATS to spit out someone. You cut through the BS and red tape.
  • cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior Member Posts: 6,594Mod Mod
    I did find out the hiring manager and reached out but the guy is not getting back to me. Oh well. I'm not actively looking but thought it was worth pasively exploring. Like I said earlier, I wasn't interested in applying blindly/directly becuase I wanted to avoid the new company calling contacts in my current place.
  • UnixGuyUnixGuy Are we having fun yet? Posts: 3,835Mod Mod
    iBrokeIT wrote: »
    ...but did you show them your CEH? Probably wouldn't have been ghosted if you did! icon_lol.gif

    That would scare them for sure
    Goal: MBA, March 2020
  • NetworkingStudentNetworkingStudent Posts: 1,272Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    cyberguypr wrote: »
    I really try to give recruiters the benefit of the doubt every now and then but their soulless beings always disappoint me. A few weeks ago I came across that one job posting that stands out of the noise and make you got "Hmm...".

    Recruiter 1 pitches the role through LinkedIn. I am intrigued so I ask for compensation right off the bat. Given the 10-15 hits I receive on a weekly basis this is my gating. He replies with the number. The base was a substantial increase over my compensation, similar benefits, same industry; it's a specialization extremely in line with my expertise. I'm honest and tell him that I have been eternally disappointed by recruiters. He says he's ben in the game for 20+ years, specializes in critical high profile hires, blah blah blah, and give me more details on his relationship with the current client. I like what I hear so I ask him for a time to talk. Then he goes radio silent. It has been 2 weeks now.

    Recruiter 2 from another company pitches me the exact same role. Message seems canned so my BS radar goes off. I tell her that the roles does pique my interest, that another recruiter reached out and then ghosted me, but I was willing to hear more from her. She says that "given that another recruiter has already reached out to you on this position, it will be an overlap on my part. Will keep you posted on other suitable positions.” I get triggered and answer back indicating that this is an example on why I hate recruiters. I had to ELI5 that I never agreed to anything with previous recruiter and therefore her comment did not make any sense. She then replies with “send updated resume, your expected compensation, and your current one”. That is all I need to know to move on and add her to the wall of shame.

    Recruiter 3 and 4 reach out with same job. Immediately ignore them because of multiple typical red flags.

    Recruiter 5 reaches out. I tell him upfront I have received this exact same role from now 5 recruiters all claiming to be preferred vendors for the hiring company. I tell him sorry but coming off strong and that I am interested in the role but refuse to work with non-transparent agencies that give recruiters a bad name. He says he understands and even gives me names of people he has placed in the hiring company. I recognize two so he gets point in his favor. This guy seems like the real deal. I ask him about next steps if interested. He then tells me he got more info from the hiring manager and gives me this "Application security focus. Develops App Sec strategy, contributing to the broader security strategy." There’s a small problem: this role has zero to do with AppSec. I question him on this and he stands by it and says it came directly from the hiring VP. Weird. I then ask about next steps. He says that he “tried submitting someone today into the job portal but it said they weren’t accepting additional candidates, submissions may be resumed later. I’ll let you know what I hear”. I then go to the company’s portal directly and see that there’s no issue applying for that specific role. What the heck!

    At this point I’m losing all interest. You may ask, why I didn’t apply directly to the company? Well’ the Infosec leadership at this company came from my current company. I know that in the past they have reached out to my current leadership to inquire about candidates that work/worked for us and were looking to move over there. I’m not ready for that call to happen since I’m only in an exploratory phase to see if the role is a good fit so my hope was that a good recruiter could relay this to the hiring manager before a formal application is submitted.

    TLDR: Recruiter suck and always will!



    Recruiters have their place. They can get you past the Application Tracking Systems.



    Likes:
    1) They can stream line the process to get you an interview.
    2) In a few conversations they can present several jobs to you.
    --What do you think of this job.. or that job?
    3) The process of lining up an interview with a recruiters client /customer is a lot quicker, than with a company that does not use a recruiter.


    Dis Likes:
    1) Come to my office for an interview, I might have some roles for you. After the interview they say, "I'm sorry I don't have any roles right now."

    I have had some recruiters do this to me. Maybe recruiters get free gas, but I DO NOT. I have to pay for my gas. Why are you wasting my time to have me come to your office, and pay $5.00-$10.00 for gas, just tell me you MIGHT have some roles. Can you company do web sessions, or Skype? Other recruiting companies that you compete against with can do virtual interviews, why can't you? Get with the times!!

    2) I have some roles for you I want to submit you for. I submitted you for this role, but you didn't get it. Me: Why not? Oh they didn't tell us they wanted someone with xyz technology experience for this role.

    Odd shouldn't you know what your customer wants? Did you even read my resume? Oh wait I forgot you're a Senior recruiter, so you shouldn't know how to do your homework and find out what your customer wants or needs.


    3) They never really seem to know anything about the role. Here are the requirements---A generic job description is sent.


    4) They care more about their commission, than you having the right role/job.


    5) They got college degrees in fields not related to HR, but some how recruiting seemed like a good fit. I really feel like anyone could be a recruiter.


    ---I heard they pay contractors less, so that they can make a bigger profit. Is this true?


    There are some good recruiters out there, but they're few and few between. I think majority of the recruiters just look out for number one.
    When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened."

    --Alexander Graham Bell,
    American inventor
  • Basic85Basic85 Posts: 147Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    How much do you trust a used car salesmen? That's how much you should trust a recruiter. Recruiter's are basically sales of people. I've encountered so many horrible recruiters that it's not even funny anymore. Are all recruiters bad? No but the good ones are far few in between.

    I've encountered recruiters flat out lying through there teeth, one didn't tell me that the position had already been filled and that the interview was just a quota but I backed out at the last second due to a bad gut feeling, nasty attitudes specially from an HR manager, and the list goes on.

    Contractors do generally get paid less because staffing agency have a bill rate to the client and so the less they pay you the more they pocket. For example, the client pays the recruiter/staffing agency $100 an hour and from that they pay you the contractor say $20 an hour so they pocket $80 an hour. I understand they have overhead to pay but they want to get as much of that as possible.

    Finally, good luck!
  • wayne_wonderwayne_wonder Posts: 215Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    Recruiters in the UK are pointless too i really cant stand them but sometimes they're needed!

    I hate when you go for a role and they're all nice and friendly on your case honing etc but as soon as the role goes cold you cant even get a reason why or feedback bunch of classless morons
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