Quality/reputation of Cyber masters schools

johnnycrypto

Greetings. I've been thinking a lot about getting an MS in Cyber now that I have a security position with a company that offers tuition reimbursement.

The challenge I'm facing is whether I should put in tons of pre-requisite coursework for one of those top tier masters programs (JHU, Carnegie Mellon) or go for my original choice (UMUC), which is also a fraction of the cost.

NYU Tandon would probably be another top choice but a single course takes up the majority of the allotted funds I'm given per year.

So my question is, are graduate Cyber masters programs even viewed that way by employers or in the security community? In other words, does someone look at your background and say 'oh you went to UMUC, nevermind', or 'oh wow, you have a masters in cyber from Hopkins - that changes things.' In my experience, I've come across a lot of very talented people in the military who were quite alright with UMUC. And it is an NSA CAE, as well.

Reason I ask is I noticed UMUC requires no GRE and no prior coursework. I have a million security certs and 10+ years of experience in tech/security, but because I majored in the humanities way back when, I am now taking courses on my own dime to meet the prerequisites for data structures, discrete math, and object oriented programming that are required for JHU and Carnegie. I could stop all this if I wanted to start at UMUC. Your thoughts?

devilbones

Nobody cares. Do it for you.

TechGuru80

Among a lot of the NSA centers of excellence schools, you are looking at a similar curriculum. It sounds like JHU and CMU have more of a computer science level type of program, and that makes sense because both of those schools are heavily engineering-based. A degree is only good if you can get through the program and seeing as how that isn’t really aligned with your background to go to JHU or CMU, you might have a harder experience.

What is your budget? What are your long term objectives? Have you ever take a SANS course? I definitely see value in getting a technical degree for you, as that can help when your resume gets compared to others, it’s just a matter of which type of degree will be right.

BlackBeret

I just graduated the UMUC MS in Cybersecurity program, and I had a job offer pending my completion that I start next week. When it comes to employers and further education the big difference I've found is it's either Computer Science, or it's not. No one seems to have cared what school my degree came from.

Starting over, I'd probably have gone to WGU to get it done as quickly as possible. SANS if I wasn't paying 50% out of pocket. Universit of Advancing Technology is another good school as far as classes go. I completed my AS there years ago and probably learned more in that program than my BS or MS.

johnnycrypto

Thanks so much. I have really wanted to hear about what NSA CAE means for curriculum. My ultimate aspiration is to work in national security/defense. I worked for over a decade in information engineering with the government and work as a security architect now, but my liberal arts degree from 20 yrs ago is haunting me when it comes to UMD, JHU, NYU, Carnegie etc. So I'm taking a Java course recommended by Carnegie as fulfilling a pre-requisite. Since I spent a decade in an environment with computer scientists, I think I could make it through any program. But I will admit I don't get up in the morning wanting to fire up python modules.

I am taking my first SANS course in a month. I have a CISSP, CCSP, Sec+, 3 AWS certs, a VMware cert, and some other non-technical certs.

My budget is basically zero. I would never consider this unless I had the tuition reimbursement option. I do like that UMUC has an Information Assurance degree, but their Cybersecurity Technology MS is also interesting to me. NYU is very interesting because as far as I can tell, it's the only graduate program that is a CAE in CyberOps - that is really where I want to be. Really appreciate your input. UMUC does offer the Cyber Management and Policy degree, which is the one that least interests me, but maybe I should reconsider.

johnnycrypto

Hey BlackBeret. Congrats - that's exciting right there. Which track did you do at UMUC? I noticed they lump cloud architecture in with Cybersecurity, which is an interesting option. Trying to understand cyber technology vs information assurance.

TechGuru80

johnnycrypto wrote: »

1. Thanks so much. I have really wanted to hear about what NSA CAE means for curriculum. My ultimate aspiration is to work in national security/defense.

2. So I'm taking a Java course recommended by Carnegie as fulfilling a pre-requisite. Since I spent a decade in an environment with computer scientists, I think I could make it through any program. But I will admit I don't get up in the morning wanting to fire up python modules.

3. I am taking my first SANS course in a month. I have a CISSP, CCSP, Sec+, 3 AWS certs, a VMware cert, and some other non-technical certs. My budget is basically zero. I would never consider this unless I had the tuition reimbursement option. I do like that UMUC has an Information Assurance degree, but their Cybersecurity Technology MS is also interesting to me.

1. https://www.nsa.gov/resources/students-educators/centers-academic-excellence/ ... Make sure you hit 8570 certifications for the different categories you haven't covered yet. If you are willing to move wherever, you obviously have a higher chance.

2. A lot of programs (MIS especially), like to teach people Java because a lot of enterprise software utilizes it. The downside is Security relies a lot on C, C++, and Python...as well as PowerShell and Bash (Shell).

3. I do not mean your personal budget necessarily, but how much can you spend on tuition? SANS has a masters degree that forces you to get the industry leading certifications employers love. If memory serves me correct, I believe the total cost is around $45,000 (I calculate UMUC to be about $24,000). Honestly, I would be tempted to go with the SANS degree if you can stomach paying the extra or get them to pay more. GIAC certifications hold a lot of weight, and the cost barrier keeps the numbers of people holding them low. If I was looking at Masters programs again, I would have given SANS a harder look knowing what I know now...a lot of the theory and such you are going to learn in other programs can essentially be linked directly to the CISSP domains......however with SANS you are getting top tier vocational training by an authoritative source (SANS) trusted by the entire industry.

Outside of those facts, whichever school you choose just make sure they have a good placement rate post graduation....it's worthless if people who graduate aren't employed. Even though you are employed, it's still a relevant consideration.

johnnycrypto

Gotcha - great info TechGuru much appreciated.

Well I get 10K a year fixed tuition reimbursement. I had looked at the SANS masters but wasn't sure about it vs state schools, others on the list. I will reexamine. UMUC's program and cost definitely is attractive to me. I'll probably have 2 GIACs in the next year as my company wants people to have those.

I had not fully understood the Java pre-requisite for these programs. To their credit they did say 'object oriented programming', but at least one required Java in particular. Oh well. I've paid my fee already for Java so I'll go down that rabbit hole. I figure it's good to understand anywho. Many thanks for these insights.

TechGuru80

johnnycrypto wrote: »

Gotcha - great info TechGuru much appreciated.

Well I get 10K a year fixed tuition reimbursement. I had looked at the SANS masters but wasn't sure about it vs state schools, others on the list. I will reexamine. UMUC's program and cost definitely is attractive to me. I'll probably have 2 GIACs in the next year as my company wants people to have those.

I had not fully understood the Java pre-requisite for these programs. To their credit they did say 'object oriented programming', but at least one required Java in particular. Oh well. I've paid my fee already for Java so I'll go down that rabbit hole. I figure it's good to understand anywho. Many thanks for these insights.

$10k is definitely not too shabby. I would at least do one or both of the GIAC certs before you make your decision if you can since the SANS Masters is basically a lot of courses/certs and then writing papers on those subjects....so you will know exactly what it will be like if you go that route.

Yeah it is not uncommon for a program to try and jam Java down your throat for the simple fact that "all the MIS degrees and ERP systems are doing it..." but getting into an infosec role that actually requires Java is fairly uncommon. Knowing Java isn't terrible....and knowing OOP is valuable for sure, but they would probably be better off forcing people to learn Python...it's easier and more practical.

devilbones

johnnycrypto wrote: »

Thanks so much. I have really wanted to hear about what NSA CAE means for curriculum. My ultimate aspiration is to work in national security/defense. I worked for over a decade in information engineering with the government and work as a security architect now, but my liberal arts degree from 20 yrs ago is haunting me when it comes to UMD, JHU, NYU, Carnegie etc. So I'm taking a Java course recommended by Carnegie as fulfilling a pre-requisite. Since I spent a decade in an environment with computer scientists, I think I could make it through any program. But I will admit I don't get up in the morning wanting to fire up python modules.

I am taking my first SANS course in a month. I have a CISSP, CCSP, Sec+, 3 AWS certs, a VMware cert, and some other non-technical certs.

My budget is basically zero. I would never consider this unless I had the tuition reimbursement option. I do like that UMUC has an Information Assurance degree, but their Cybersecurity Technology MS is also interesting to me. NYU is very interesting because as far as I can tell, it's the only graduate program that is a CAE in CyberOps - that is really where I want to be. Really appreciate your input. UMUC does offer the Cyber Management and Policy degree, which is the one that least interests me, but maybe I should reconsider.

I got my BS and MS from an online school. I received 4 job offers from NSA/CIA for Cyber fields and they never once questioned the source. I have several Security Certs, NSA only counts 4 when they are calculating your initial starting point. The recruiters are not as in tune with the job as they think they are so once you receive your CJO contact your hiring manager or the person that interviewed you with your initial offer if you think its too low. They can/will help you get a higher grade. Good luck. Like I said, the school you choose is only up to you.

johnnycrypto

Thanks devilbones. You have accomplished what I dream to achieve, and this thread has given me a bit of hope in getting into that realm, which is really my reason for posting. I'm really starting to think UMUC based on all this, unless there is some scholarship for SANS. Will investigate. The NYU Tandon CyberOps specialty sounds awesome, but again, ~5700/course is rough stuff.

ITSec14

If you're not looking to move into management or teach university courses as an adjunct professor, I don't see how a masters alone helps anyone in their careers. At least not in this industry. Getting a masters is not a guarantee in promotion or pay raise by itself. People also need to weigh the additional costs, if any. The IRS allows you to receive around $5,000 or so (may be off a little) in tuition reimbursement from your employer without any tax liabilities. Anything over that you will have to pay taxes on.

Don't pursue a masters just because you think you need it. Really ask yourself the reason for wanting to pursue it and determine if that's the route you have to take to achieve your goals. It has to make sense financially as well.

Some industries/organizations may have different requirements, but I'm just going off the advice from other coworkers/senior leadership in my office. I'm personally pursuing my masters to teach part time at night and it's a requirement. If I didn't have that goal, then I likely would not pursue it. Just my .02.

jeremywatts2005

If you want to go for the digital forensics side of the house of security. MSDFS Champlain College is awesome heavily recognized in industry. Went from 65K in 2013 to making over 150K now. I even had my first Masters in InfoSec from CTU it got me a job in a tech college as a Dean till I went back to school for my MSDFS. That degree has more than paid for itself. I have been in field since 1997 never made this much.

Danielm7

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

If you want to go for the digital forensics side of the house of security. MSDFS Champlain College is awesome heavily recognized in industry. Went from 65K in 2013 to making over 150K now. I even had my first Masters in InfoSec from CTU it got me a job in a tech college as a Dean till I went back to school for my MSDFS. That degree has more than paid for itself. I have been in field since 1997 never made this much.

Congrats, definitely not the norm for someone who already has an MS and getting another. Were you not in forensics before and you switched after?

jeremywatts2005

Danielm7 wrote: »

Congrats, definitely not the norm for someone who already has an MS and getting another. Were you not in forensics before and you switched after?

Nope was not in Digital Forensics at all. Had one yr in Security actually before I got my MSDFS. I had worked on the IT side of the house. Servers, imaging and things along those lines mostly. The degree put some good credentials that are recognized by many companies on my name. The company I work for now one of the largest telecoms in the world and others recruit from Champlain. Also the gov heavily recruits from Champlain. That is how I got on a contract for DHS.

supafish9

What made/pushed you to working with digital forensics from the security side of the house?

I haven't heard of Champlain before, but looking at the MSDFS program at a glance, I see that some of the courses work with EnCase and Carbon Black. We have EnCase at my company but nobody really knows how to use it. Previous guy didn't leave any documentation so we have a licensed version just chilling on a server.

landoncarlson85

Georgia Tech just announced that they are making available their Cybersecurity masters program online (previously just in the classroom). The best part....you can complete it for just under 10k.

I have applied to the program and am anxiously awaiting my (hopeful) acceptance letter.

Madmd5

landoncarlson85 wrote: »

Georgia Tech just announced that they are making available their Cybersecurity masters program online (previously just in the classroom). The best part....you can complete it for just under 10k.

I have applied to the program and am anxiously awaiting my (hopeful) acceptance letter.

Thanks for the info! Will definitely give this a hard look for the price.