Middle Aged Man Needs Help with Career Change....Can YOU help?

ek247

[FONT=&quot]Hi,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have been lecturing in Economics for nearly a decade, however I always wanted a career in IT and I believe the time is now right for me to take the plunge.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I have looked into various IT fields available and the the two which stood out for me were Cloud (Azure and AWS) and Cisco. Reason being that I like being 'hands on' and my programming skills is very limited.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have set aside approximately 12-15 hours a week for the next two years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What I need help with is:[/FONT]

• Which route would be ideal for a long term career option
  
• Would I be able to learn cloud without any prior knowledge of server/ infrastructure
  
• Would undertaking a 70-740 be an ideal qualification to undertake before moving into cloud and taking the AZ-100 (assuming I go towards the Azure route).
  
• Or any other options within the IT spectrum.
  
  Thank you and I will appreciate all feedback provided.
  
  
  

TechGromit

A career change mid-career is a difficult transition, it's a little easier when your unemployed, because making less is easier to swallow. You basic situation is you have 10 years experience in your current field, you probably earning 60 to 70k a year, you want to educate yourself to make a smooth transition and I'm guessing without a significant cut in pay. I'm going to say that's going to be a tough sell, without any experience in the field your looking at a pay cut for several years before your wages recover to what your making now.

So on to your question, there's different levels cloud services, everything from they host your server, but you do all the back end grunt work remotely of managing it, to turn key operations, where the cloud provider does it all for you. In the former case yes your going to have to know how to manage servers, in the latter case, why do I need you as an employee again? As for long term employability, I would say Cyber security is a good one, but this isn't an entry level position, it's something your going to have to work you way into as a long term goal.

Jon_Cisco

The first thing to do is gets started with studying. Pick something entry level and just start because if you find you hate studying and you don't have previous IT experience your gonna have a hard time.

I am not going to pretend to know the best path but I think you should look into an entry level certification that catches your interest and take the test. Give yourself a short period of time to study for it and don't be surprised if you fail the first time. This short time frame couple hundred dollar experiment will give you a really good indication of what it's like to pursue IT certifications. Money well spent in my opinion and it could get you started before Christmas.

Now if you still like IT after that then I suggest you start saving for the transition. Unless you get lucky your probably gonna take a pay cut for a couple years. Make sure you are in a position to deal with that. Either you can live frugally or you need to save up a bunch before hand.

paul78

What exactly does middle age mean to you? I'm guessing you are in your late 40's. There's been a few threads from people who have made a mid-career transition successfully.

If you have an interest in cloud technologies - having a solid understanding in server and network infrastructure is required unless your interest is in cloud app roles like salesforce, gsuite, o365, etc.

If you have no real technology experience, you best bet is to start with some basics. Get yourself a decent computer for a lab - perhaps start with something like the material from A+ or Server+. Maybe through in Net+. If you are committed and passionate - you can do that in year 1.

In year 2 - you can create a free one year AWS, Azure, or GCP account. After doing the Comptia certs in year 1, it will give you a better idea of the type of IT roles that you enjoy and you can focus on that.

In the meantime - depending on what you have in your area - check out various Meetups and see what Meetups you can attend - even if you don't have professional experience, it will give you exposure to technology professionals who can give you a flavor of what to expect.

ek247

By middle aged I meant late 30’s.
In relation to cyber security will I need to learn programming as a prerequisite

In relation to pay, I do not mind taking a pay cut as long as I know that I will earn as much or more by year 6-7.

I have started 70-740 but it seems so broad and at times feel lost as to how much more I need to learn before moving to AWS or Azurez, compared to Cisco CCNA which seems more specific and ‘defined’

paul78

ek247 wrote: »

By middle aged I meant late 30’s.

LOL - that's hardly middle-age... Ok - you have a lot more time to go in your career.

ek247 wrote: »

In relation to cyber security will I need to learn programming as a prerequisite

It depends - non-technical roles such as in governance and compliance typically would not require any programming. Many security roles may require an understanding of software development techniques or perhaps simple scripting but that's about it. Programming is mostly in the more highly technical roles such as in exploit dev or reverse malware engineering.

ek247 wrote: »

In relation to pay, I do not mind taking a pay cut as long as I know that I will earn as much or more by year 6-7.

That depends on what you make now.

ek247 wrote: »

I have started 70-740 but it seems so broad and at times feel lost as to how much more I need to learn before moving to AWS or Azurez, compared to Cisco CCNA which seems more specific and ‘defined’

I would not recommend starting with a vendor specific path - especially not Microsoft if you are interested in AWS. It's very rare to come across a company that would be using Microsoft stack on AWS.

yoba222

ek247 wrote: »

[FONT=&amp]Hi,[/FONT]

• Would I be able to learn cloud without any prior knowledge of server/ infrastructure

No, I don't think you can unfortunately. With IT, you can't really skip the entry level skills and knowledge. You can progress through them at an accelerated pace, but you'll still need to go through them. This is also usually true for for jobs in IT, unless you have really good connections.

In my opinion a dedicated person in their late 30s has a considerable advantage over a person in their teens as far as speeding up the process.

scaredoftests

Oh please that is hardly middle aged! LOL I am 59 and have changed my career many times. Just don't paint yourself in a corner learning one thing. Learn a variety of things.

EANx

Trying to do cloud without some sort of server admin experience would be like someone trying to be an economist but skipping classes in statistics.

ek247

Ahhh! That makes sense!

I can see from you signature that you have specialised in Cisco, would you say that Cisco provides a more focused path from point of entry (CCNA) to whatever/ where ever you want to go? i.e CCNP/ CCIE

ek247

paul78 wrote: »

LOL - that's hardly middle-age... Ok - you have a lot more time to go in your career.


It depends - non-technical roles such as in governance and compliance typically would not require any programming. Many security roles may require an understanding of software development techniques or perhaps simple scripting but that's about it. Programming is mostly in the more highly technical roles such as in exploit dev or reverse malware engineering.


That depends on what you make now.


I would not recommend starting with a vendor specific path - especially not Microsoft if you are interested in AWS. It's very rare to come across a company that would be using Microsoft stack on AWS.

In terms of pay I am currently on $50,000 with a good pension and reasonable holiday. However, I feel my career has stagnated and demoted myself from Head of School to focus on career progression in IT.

38 seems ancient to me compared to some people I see within the IT sector, but thanks for making me feel young

In terms of Cyber security which route if any would you be able to recommend a "coming towards middle aged" person.

mactex

I am a few years into my second career. Age is a mindset; your have lots of life experience. Use it to your advantage. Dabble in all technologies and find out what you like to do. Set goals and achieve them. Long term, after you have established yourself and have some skills; you may want to transition into Cybersecurity if it interests you.

TechGromit

ek247 wrote: »

By middle aged I meant late 30’s.
In relation to cyber security will I need to learn programming as a prerequisite

No, most of my job is compliance paperwork. i don't do any programming, but it also depends on what you do, being a pentester that can automate tasks can be very helpful.

EANx

ek247 wrote: »

Ahhh! That makes sense!

I can see from you signature that you have specialised in Cisco, would you say that Cisco provides a more focused path from point of entry (CCNA) to whatever/ where ever you want to go? i.e CCNP/ CCIE

I think it's "a" path. Whether it's more focused than others is a topic for discussion. Personally, I think that networking is one of those areas where someone can start without having a background elsewhere. You learn how traffic operates and/or is filtered and you can get a job in a NOC (Network Ops Center). "Entry-level" can get you a job on the night shift but that's probably only in an area that has demand. Not many NOCs, probably not much opportunity. I'd say take a look at job postings for your area asking for a CCNA.

Tekn0logy

• Would I be able to learn cloud without any prior knowledge of server/ infrastructure
• Would undertaking a 70-740 be an ideal qualification to undertake before moving into cloud and taking the AZ-100 (assuming I go towards the Azure route).

Go for the cloud. Amazon has a TON of free training material to get your feet wet and figure out what you like/dislike.
Avoid cybersec like the plague as it seems that unless you have CS/CIS/IS/IT Bachelors degree + EXPERIENCE you will not get hired unless you know somebody on the inside.

ek247

EANx wrote: »

I think it's "a" path. Whether it's more focused than others is a topic for discussion. Personally, I think that networking is one of those areas where someone can start without having a background elsewhere. You learn how traffic operates and/or is filtered and you can get a job in a NOC (Network Ops Center). "Entry-level" can get you a job on the night shift but that's probably only in an area that has demand. Not many NOCs, probably not much opportunity. I'd say take a look at job postings for your area asking for a CCNA.

Thank you, just did a quick google and found many opportunities for a Network Operations based near to where I live (West Midlands, UK) asking for CCNA based qualifications with experience. I do not mind working voluntary for 12-15 hours a week if that is what will help me get a foot in the dorr in the future

Pseudonym

If you're in the UK, I've found Microsoft certs to be more sought after than Cisco. But it really depends what you want to do. I still think you should have a look at the A+ first though, just to get an idea where you're at in terms of knowledge.

I struggled with the A+ with no experience, (took a long time to study for it before taking the exam and passing.) then after doing net+, I started on Microsoft certs and they were a HUGE step up from CompTIA. Yeah, the Microsoft exams are broad, but the Azure exams (I did 70-533 as my MCSE elective.) requires ALL of the knowledge gained from the server track, plus networking knowledge (designing VNETs, DNS, firewall rules.), plus security knowledge, plus a LOAD of scripting. I really feel like you're underestimating how much you're going to have to learn. Going straight to Azure will be a monumental struggle.

malachi1612

ek247 wrote: »

Thank you, just did a quick google and found many opportunities for a Network Operations based near to where I live (West Midlands, UK) asking for CCNA based qualifications with experience. I do not mind working voluntary for 12-15 hours a week if that is what will help me get a foot in the dorr in the future

I would start with entry level certs. Such as A+, N+ then move onto something vendor specific like Cisco or Microsoft. Just the get base covered first, my friend is doing the same as he wants to get into IT from his boring admin job and doing N+ to get him noticed.

You live in the same area as me, I work in Birmingham city centre and there are plenty of 1st line support roles you can start with once you get a basic cert.

ek247

malachi1612 wrote: »

I would start with entry level certs. Such as A+, N+ then move onto something vendor specific like Cisco or Microsoft. Just the get base covered first, my friend is doing the same as he wants to get into IT from his boring admin job and doing N+ to get him noticed.

You live in the same area as me, I work in Birmingham city centre and there are plenty of 1st line support roles you can start with once you get a basic cert.

Pseudonym wrote: »

If you're in the UK, I've found Microsoft certs to be more sought after than Cisco. But it really depends what you want to do. I still think you should have a look at the A+ first though, just to get an idea where you're at in terms of knowledge.

I struggled with the A+ with no experience, (took a long time to study for it before taking the exam and passing.) then after doing net+, I started on Microsoft certs and they were a HUGE step up from CompTIA. Yeah, the Microsoft exams are broad, but the Azure exams (I did 70-533 as my MCSE elective.) requires ALL of the knowledge gained from the server track, plus networking knowledge (designing VNETs, DNS, firewall rules.), plus security knowledge, plus a LOAD of scripting. I really feel like you're underestimating how much you're going to have to learn. Going straight to Azure will be a monumental struggle.

Thank you both for your insight into the best way moving forward. I am currently working in Birmingham, so commuting in and out would not be a problem.

@malachi1612 if you don't mind me asking, is your friend self studying from home or has he enrolled to a local college/ training centre?

Phileeeeeeep651

Out of curiosity, why cloud/Cisco? Any interest in programming? I have to imagine that with 10 years of economics and being somewhat proficient in a programming language could open some doors into a FinTech type career field.

ThePawofRizzo

I agree with malachi1612 and Pseudonym on aiming first for the more foundational CompTIA A+ and Network+ certs. Whatever you learn starting there will carry further into later, more specific vendor certs. In fact, if you complete A+ first - which you may think is tough to study for since it sounds like you have limited experience with computers - you will likely later find the Network+ has a lot of overlap with A+, so progressive certs will get easier to prep for as time goes on. Also, you have to earn CPEs/CEUs to retain your A+ and N+, and later certs like CCNA or Microsoft can be used as CEUs for the CompTIA exams.

If you are wanting to get into Cybersecurity, these foundational steps would likely be necessary. If you don't know the basics of how a network or computer works, securing them would be pretty impossible. That isn't to say you'd need a decade of IT experience to eventually get into cybersecurity; at my company we've hired a couple analysts that had done mostly desktop support for a couple years to assist the IT Security team.

You're age won't be a big deal. I made the hop to IT in my early 30s. Took an initial cut in pay, but if you keep learning - keep certifying to have a "paperwork trail" showing you are learning new tech - within three or four years you could get back into a comparable pay raise, and then later make more than you'd ever make in a lot of other career fields.

If it helps, I started with a BA in English. Initially got a job providing patient care/glorified customer support for a home health care company. I Pursued a couple AAS degrees in Computer Science just before I changed to an entry-level desktop support role. And after a few hops around every couple to few years, I'm making way more in this field than I could have in the customer service arena I was working in for my first job out of college. Be patient, but you can entirely make the transition with some effort.

malachi1612

ek247 wrote: »

Thank you both for your insight into the best way moving forward. I am currently working in Birmingham, so commuting in and out would not be a problem.

@malachi1612 if you don't mind me asking, is your friend self studying from home or has he enrolled to a local college/ training centre?

My friend is self studying from home, I gave him the idea as all the MS cert I have I did through self studying.

ek247

Thank you all for proving me with such valuable insights to help me towards my long and arduous journey in IT.

I spent some time today going through A+ and was quite relieved that most of the information provided were things I already knew. I had a brief look at Network + and somehow knew from previous years what the OSI model was as well as the basics of cabling and TCP/IP applications.

In relation to why do I not want to focus on programming - I find it extremely hard to grasp and get to grips with. The fear is also that I have no idea what career options are available and AWS, Azure and Cisco seem to provide a pathway towards an end goal.

Phileeeeeeep651

ek247 wrote: »

In relation to why do I not want to focus on programming - I find it extremely hard to grasp and get to grips with. The fear is also that I have no idea what career options are available and AWS, Azure and Cisco seem to provide a pathway towards an end goal.

Completely understandable. I felt the same way for a long time until I ended up going to a coding bootcamp (*I'm not advocating for this, but I'm glad I did it) and it really clicked. Either way, AWS, Azure, and Cisco are good choices.

I will say this though, Azure/Microsoft is more going to align more towards SysAdmin, Sys Engineer, Cloud/DevOps type roles while Cisco would be more down the NOC, Net Admin, and Net Engineer path. I think that AWS without a fundamental knowledge in either of those would be pretty difficult and not really beneficial, someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Exploring some of those careers and what the jobs entail might help narrow down what technologies really interest you.

DatabaseHead

ek247 said:

[FONT=&quot]Hi,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have been lecturing in Economics for nearly a decade, however I always wanted a career in IT and I believe the time is now right for me to take the plunge.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have looked into various IT fields available and the the two which stood out for me were Cloud (Azure and AWS) and Cisco. Reason being that I like being 'hands on' and my programming skills is very limited.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have set aside approximately 12-15 hours a week for the next two years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What I need help with is:[/FONT]

• Which route would be ideal for a long term career option
  
• Would I be able to learn cloud without any prior knowledge of server/ infrastructure
  
• Would undertaking a 70-740 be an ideal qualification to undertake before moving into cloud and taking the AZ-100 (assuming I go towards the Azure route).
  
• Or any other options within the IT spectrum.
  
  Thank you and I will appreciate all feedback provided
• 
  
  

Sorry to asking....

Do you have any recommendations on good economic books around the bank industry.  Recently read a crypto book and it really poked me to researching banking etc.....

Moon Child

Well I will say the problem with the IT field is age discrimination, more then just about any other field I have seen. I met several guys in mid 50's in trucking school and during the brief period while I did trucking who were former IT professionals. They told me they found themselves unemployed and so took up truck driving. They couldn't find an IT job and they said the reason was because of their age so they gave up and started truck driving. So at your age even though you may be qualified for a job they might just disqualify you based on your age. I am experiencing it myself even in late 30's I am viewed as too old for help desk jobs. I got my degree in Computer Information Systems probably over a decade ago, had an internship but couldn't land any IT jobs so I took jobs that weren't in the IT field and later got a Master's Degree in Education with a teaching license.

Even though I have a degree in computers, 3 years of work experience and lots of certifications I keep getting turned down for help desk and desktop technician jobs. The "hint" I am getting is recruiters think I am too old for a guy in late 30's to apply to help desk roles. I get called on the phone by many young female recruiters in their very early 20's only to get turned down when they start figuring out hold old I am. Of course they tell me I don't have experience in some areas, but I am starting to think the real reason is my age.

You will see a lot of entry level IT job postings that will say "only recent college grads apply" or ones saying if your not a recent graduate they will throw away your resume and not even consider you for the job. This is blatant age discrimination. When they say only recent college grads that means they want some young 22 year old, not a guy in his late 30's, 40's, or 50's applying to the job.

Then you will get the line that because of your age they think your skills are outdated and your obsolete.  I have gotten the line from recruiters telling me it's been some years since I got my degree in Computer Information Systems and ask me how have I kept my skills up to date. Even though I tell them currently been in an IT job for past 2 years as a Laptop Technician, kept certifications renewed and up to date, that I do a lot of side IT jobs for people from making web pages for them to doing troubleshooting with their computers and home networks, etc ... it still seems it is not enough to convince them. My gut tells me they think because of my age they think I am too outdated for this work. Even in late 30's the message I am getting is your too old to be applying to this help desk job.

I have fixed all kinds of computers, printers, laptops, networking problems, and built lots of webpages for people for a small price for many years as a hobby while I worked other jobs that were not in IT. I started building my own Desktops from scratch and setting up my own home networks at age 16. Yet some recruiters will talk to me like I don't even have even basic computer skills and I think a lot of this is because of my age.

Jon_Cisco

I will say this. I was considering a career change about 15 years ago into IT. And at the time I wondered if my age would be a problem because I was already making more then an entry level tech and I know companies like that young cheap labor force. Now 15 years later I am still considering making a change into IT and I still wonder how age is going to effect me. However I know that each employer has a goal and I am not going to want to be hired by the one that is looking for young cheap labor. I want to be hired by the one who is looking for a solid dependable work history and the ability to get tasks done. Experience has value but it is more useful after help desk. It might not get easier with age but it is not impossible as long as you have the skills.

EANx

Moon Child said:

Well I will say the problem with the IT field is age discrimination,

Even though I have a degree in computers, 3 years of work experience and lots of certifications I keep getting turned down for help desk and desktop technician jobs. The "hint" I am getting is recruiters think I am too old for a guy in late 30's to apply to help desk roles. I get called on the phone by many young female recruiters in their very early 20's only to get turned down when they start figuring out hold old I am. Of course they tell me I don't have experience in some areas, but I am starting to think the real reason is my age.

You will see a lot of entry level IT job postings that will say "only recent college grads apply" or ones saying if your not a recent graduate they will throw away your resume and not even consider you for the job. This is blatant age discrimination. When they say only recent college grads that means they want some young 22 year old, not a guy in his late 30's, 40's, or 50's applying to the job.

When you see those job ads or get questions that are related to age without being related to experience "so, how old are your kids? We just need to know for health insurance purposes", those questions (for U.S. residents) should be forwarded to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), part of the Department of Labor. Otherwise it's kind of like you're living in a slum complaining about the crime and drugs but not willing to call the police, except here, there's no one ready to get revenge on you. Step up and report the problem otherwise the problem just gets worse.

sfportaro

ek247 said:

By middle aged I meant late 30’s.
In relation to cyber security will I need to learn programming as a prerequisite

In relation to pay, I do not mind taking a pay cut as long as I know that I will earn as much or more by year 6-7.

I have started 70-740 but it seems so broad and at times feel lost as to how much more I need to learn before moving to AWS or Azurez, compared to Cisco CCNA which seems more specific and ‘defined’

Wow. I am 55. What does that make me? Please don't answer that..

UrbanBob

I'm going to say do not get your A+. Net+ Server+ Security+ and CASP are the only good ones with Comptia. I would study them all in general to figure out what you want to do but only get Sec+ and Server+ if you are trying to get security clearance otherwise certs don't mean much.

It sounds like this is just something your interested in but don't really understand. If you are going to start with IT I would check out some youtube videos to see if you even like it.you 

Most likely you will not go straight in to AWS and Azure but straight in to helpdesk which is usaully 25k-45k a year. If you go the cisco route your more likely to find a better job with a clear career path but networking isn't for everyone and and there is now more to learn with IPV6

Moon Child

EANx said:

When you see those job ads or get questions that are related to age without being related to experience "so, how old are your kids? We just need to know for health insurance purposes", those questions (for U.S. residents) should be forwarded to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), part of the Department of Labor. Otherwise it's kind of like you're living in a slum complaining about the crime and drugs but not willing to call the police, except here, there's no one ready to get revenge on you. Step up and report the problem otherwise the problem just gets worse.

Recently I had an online video interview last Friday and during the interview the recruiter asked me what my age was during the interview!

 It was from some recruiting company never heard of before. I was going to say the name of the company online, but decided not to. I have had several interviews with Robert Half and other recruiting firms and they never once asked my age during the interview. 

 At first the recruiter was saying how great a candidate I was. I definitely have the technical skills for the job. He seemed very excited for me to come in for an in person interview this past Wednesday and was asking me for a time that was good for me. I was excited about the job because it was a boost in pay for me $18-22/hr. Then he asks me if I had anymore questions. I ask about health insurance and he says yes they do offer health insurance but he would have to know my age to tell me what it would be. So I told him my age and his face just drops and then he says he will get back to me and let me know how expensive health insurance would be for someone in that age bracket with their company. He ends the interview rather rudely with a perturbed look on his face. I try calling him back this past Monday about the interview for Wednesday, but suddenly it gets pushed back to Thursday, then I am getting no return phone calls. Wednesday and Thursday go by without him returning my calls. So I leave him an angry voice message that my cousin is a lawyer and he told me that he is not suppose to ask about my age during the interview and I also say that when I had the video conference at Mcdonald's he was on speakerphone and employees who work there heard everything he said during the interview. I tell him I am going to file a complaint with the EEOC and I am not working for a company that violates Equal Opportunity Employment.

Weather I do file a complaint or not I don't know still undecided.