Imposter Syndrome

genoshyngenoshyn Member Posts: 48 ■■■□□□□□□□
Has anyone here experienced imposter syndrome? I'm just curious because sometimes I doubt myself.

Comments

  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    I think it's another way of branding self-doubt.  I would think some of us have it more than others.  Personally, I think it can be a good thing sometimes.  That little light bulb that goes on in your head and says hey "name here" you really aren't that good at this {task, role, job, activity} etc.  You may want to explore other ventures that align with your skill sets.  

    With that said I think other times you let emotions in and begin to form irrational opinions.  This isn't a good thing either.  

    If you just looking for validation, then yes I have experienced this, both rationally (I wasn't good at that type of work) and (irrationally, I was really damn good at the work but I had a lot of self-doubt).  
  • JDMurrayJDMurray MSIT InfoSec CISSP SSCP GSEC EnCE C|EH Cloud+ CySA+ CASP+ PenTest+ Security+ Surf City, USAAdmin Posts: 12,479 Admin
    I have decided not to go for specific certifications and degrees because I felt that having them (on my resume/LinkedIn/etc.) would misrepresent me as something that I am really not. I suppose that is my way of avoiding the possibility of experiencing Imposter Syndrome, but it might also be a lack of confidence to achieve something that I do not see myself as being worthy of. What is that called--Imposter Avoidance Syndrome?
  • genoshyngenoshyn Member Posts: 48 ■■■□□□□□□□
  • E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 1,978 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I never experience that because I am too foolish to acknowledge it lol
    Alphabet soup from (ISC)2, ISACA, GIAC, EC-Council, Microsoft, ITIL, Cisco, Scrum, CompTIA and more.

    2021 goals: AZ-303, AZ-304, maybe CRISC.

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • beadsbeads Senior Member Member Posts: 1,520 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Imposter syndrome is generally associated with women and minorities of color who view themselves as successful due to EoE policy not because of what they have accomplished.


    - b/eads

  • genoshyngenoshyn Member Posts: 48 ■■■□□□□□□□
    I forget to exclude troll, racist and misogynistic opinions 😒
  • UnixGuyUnixGuy Are we having fun yet? Mod Posts: 4,370 Mod
    yeah it's normal. Understand that not everyone knows everything even when they look like they do
    Certs: GSTRT, GPEN, GCFA, CISM, CRISC, RHCE

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  • egrizzlyegrizzly B.Sc (Info. Systems), CISSP, CCNA, CCNP, Security+ Member Posts: 490 ■■■■■□□□□□
    I experience it sometimes as interviews progress to the later stages during my job search.  However, a-times it's usually triggered by the interviewer though.  Even though I very well know skills like "Creating Cybersecurity Policies".  Sometimes they're like "Now this position involves creating policies for major companies.."

    My self-doubt and imposter syndrome will kick in after that.

    Anyway, one fix to that is to list all the relevant skillsets and consciously remind yourself that your a badass at all those skillsets you're getting ready to go discuss at the boardroom or go into an interview for.
    B.Sc (Info. Systems), CISSP, CCNA, CCNP, Security+
  • JDMurrayJDMurray MSIT InfoSec CISSP SSCP GSEC EnCE C|EH Cloud+ CySA+ CASP+ PenTest+ Security+ Surf City, USAAdmin Posts: 12,479 Admin
    UnixGuy said:
    yeah it's normal. Understand that not everyone knows everything even when they look like they do

    This is essential to understand when trying to spot the Silicon Valley "Fake your way to the top" people. These people convince themselves that they are much better than they really are and some of them project it well. Politician also try this method and many fail miserably at it. When you bend your critical ear to what  they are actually saying, there is no logic or substance there.
  • chrisonechrisone Senior Member Member Posts: 2,231 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Imposter syndrome is perceived differently per person. 

    Imposter syndrome means for me:
    • Comparing my success to others
    • Honesty in knowing I haven't put in 1000 of hours into the topic
    • I feel unable to completely teach the topic
    • Said topic, is not part of my daily work tasks, so I really don't have the work experience/history to talk about.
    • I don't have any interesting fun stories about said topic
    • FOMO Cert, fear of missing out on the latest hot cert!
    I am starting to let go of a lot of these self doubting thoughts. Many of these perceptions have come from an ego that wanted the best certifications to prove whatever nonsense was roaming around in my head.

    Wisdom comes with age. 

    Certs: CISSP, OSCP, CRTP, eCTHPv2, eCPPT, eCIR, LFCS, CEH, SPLK-1002, SC-200, AZ-900, VHL:Advanced+, Retired Cisco CCNP/SP/DP
    2022 Goals: Taking most of the year off.
    Certs: EnCE
  • Fulcrum45Fulcrum45 Member Posts: 620 ■■■■■□□□□□
    I had/ have this problem dealing with other IT professionals also. It took a long time for me to realize that, more often than not, I knew more than the technician on the other end of the phone and that it was all a matter of translation. Or sometimes they're just doing a little nerd posturing to prove to me they know what they're doing. Either way I think it's normal. Especially if you've been an IT generalist for a while. 
  • beadsbeads Senior Member Member Posts: 1,520 ■■■■■■■■■□


    genoshyn said:
    I forget to exclude troll, racist and misogynistic opinions 😒
    As I said. Typically affects women and people of color. Just because you cannot fathom anyone not as 'woke' as yourself does not mean they are wrong but only in that your fail to understand the comment. Research here is key: https://hbr.org/2021/02/stop-telling-women-they-have-imposter-syndrome This is a typical article on the subject.

    Should you have a problem with something someone says or think you heard, try asking that person exactly what it is that bothers you rather than implying they are a 'troll, racist or misogynistic' in act or opinion. None of which would be true or accurate. I will say I am a bit blunt and to the point but that comes with years of hard earned experience and a lack of touch with my 'feminine side'.

  • genoshyngenoshyn Member Posts: 48 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Guy one article doesn't speak for every person on the planet. You think you can read 1 article and that gives you right to be throwing around vast generalizations about a topic? Go and watch Ted Talks on YouTube, 80% of people talking about their experience with imposter syndrome are very successful (millionaires) white males. There are countless videos on YouTube talking about the topic and the one constant across all of them is that this affects most people regardless of sex or race.
  • beadsbeads Senior Member Member Posts: 1,520 ■■■■■■■■■□
    genoshyn said:
    Guy one article doesn't speak for every person on the planet. You think you can read 1 article and that gives you right to be throwing around vast generalizations about a topic? Go and watch Ted Talks on YouTube, 80% of people talking about their experience with imposter syndrome are very successful (millionaires) white males. There are countless videos on YouTube talking about the topic and the one constant across all of them is that this affects most people regardless of sex or race.

    How many articles on the subject does one have to ignore before reaching your conclusion? I can list dozens of similar articles but if you cannot afford to read anything, its your loss.
  • chrisonechrisone Senior Member Member Posts: 2,231 ■■■■■■■■■□
    edited March 25
    beads said:
    Imposter syndrome is generally associated with women and minorities of color who view themselves as successful due to EoE policy not because of what they have accomplished.


    - b/eads

    Not going to lie, I kind of read this as being a little racist. Assuming and categorizing that only minorities are subjected to imposter syndrome. "Please correct me if I misunderstood you here" 

    I will be clear I know you weren't trying to be racist and I am in no way offended, but ALL people have emotions and deal with their own disappointments. Everyone has struggles in life and are always comparing and competing with each other. That is the nature of human beings. Being white, black, brown, etc, doesn't exclude you from these emotions. 
    Certs: CISSP, OSCP, CRTP, eCTHPv2, eCPPT, eCIR, LFCS, CEH, SPLK-1002, SC-200, AZ-900, VHL:Advanced+, Retired Cisco CCNP/SP/DP
    2022 Goals: Taking most of the year off.
    Certs: EnCE
  • JDMurrayJDMurray MSIT InfoSec CISSP SSCP GSEC EnCE C|EH Cloud+ CySA+ CASP+ PenTest+ Security+ Surf City, USAAdmin Posts: 12,479 Admin
    I'm still thinking that "Imposter Syndrome" is just a modern re-labeling of a "momentary crisis of self-confidence."
  • Mike7Mike7 Member Posts: 1,107 ■■■■□□□□□□
    Reminds me of Dunning Kruger effect. At one end, you thought you know everything when you do not. At the other end, you have doubts about your competency. 

    The key to this is self awareness; be humble, open minded, acquire fundamental skills, acknowledge and confirm skills. See The Dunning-Kruger Effect and the Importance of Self-Awareness
  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    edited March 28
    Mike7 said:
    Reminds me of Dunning Kruger effect. At one end, you thought you know everything when you do not. At the other end, you have doubts about your competency. 

    The key to this is self awareness; be humble, open minded, acquire fundamental skills, acknowledge and confirm skills. See The Dunning-Kruger Effect and the Importance of Self-Awareness
    That's funny you posted this.  It reminds me of a host of people who I previously worked with who act extremely confident and competent but really aren't very good at what they do.  Ironically some of these folks make more than me and our in higher-level position.  

    On the flip side of that, the folks who truly are excellent at their work seemed to move on as well to big and better things.  So what I have found is they both get promoted, regardless of their level of aptitude or ability, lol.

    Maybe it does pay to be ignorant of your shortcomings.....
  • JDMurrayJDMurray MSIT InfoSec CISSP SSCP GSEC EnCE C|EH Cloud+ CySA+ CASP+ PenTest+ Security+ Surf City, USAAdmin Posts: 12,479 Admin
    DatabaseHead said:

    Maybe it does pay to be ignorant of your shortcomings.....

    Or just have an amazing capacity to ignore them. I think overly-confidant people can to this the way good salesmen can convince themselves that anything they are selling is truly a great product. They are literally lying to themselves and enjoying being lied to.
  • Mike7Mike7 Member Posts: 1,107 ■■■■□□□□□□
    That's funny you posted this.  It reminds me of a host of people who I previously worked with who act extremely confident and competent but really aren't very good at what they do.  

    This is another form of imposter syndrome.
    You are not the imposter here, these people are  ;)




  • DatabaseHeadDatabaseHead Teradata Assc 16, Querying Microsoft SQL Server 2012/2014, CSM Member Posts: 2,712 ■■■■■■■■■□
    edited March 29
    JDMurray said:
    DatabaseHead said:

    Maybe it does pay to be ignorant of your shortcomings.....

    Or just have an amazing capacity to ignore them. I think overly-confidant people can to this the way good salesmen can convince themselves that anything they are selling is truly a great product. They are literally lying to themselves and enjoying being lied to.
    Nauseating even to think about that but you are probably right.  If I had to guess I would make the assumption most of us (on this forum) understate our abilities.  Just saying.
  • E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 1,978 ■■■■■■■■■■
    edited March 29
    That's funny you posted this.  It reminds me of a host of people who I previously worked with who act extremely confident and competent but really aren't very good at what they do.  Ironically some of these folks make more than me and our in higher-level position.  

    On the flip side of that, the folks who truly are excellent at their work seemed to move on as well to big and better things.  So what I have found is they both get promoted, regardless of their level of aptitude or ability, lol.

    Maybe it does pay to be ignorant of your shortcomings.....
    Guilty as charged lol
    Alphabet soup from (ISC)2, ISACA, GIAC, EC-Council, Microsoft, ITIL, Cisco, Scrum, CompTIA and more.

    2021 goals: AZ-303, AZ-304, maybe CRISC.

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 1,978 ■■■■■■■■■■
    JDMurray said:
    DatabaseHead said:

    Maybe it does pay to be ignorant of your shortcomings.....

    Or just have an amazing capacity to ignore them. I think overly-confidant people can to this the way good salesmen can convince themselves that anything they are selling is truly a great product. They are literally lying to themselves and enjoying being lied to.
    It is like you have known me forever :-)
    Alphabet soup from (ISC)2, ISACA, GIAC, EC-Council, Microsoft, ITIL, Cisco, Scrum, CompTIA and more.

    2021 goals: AZ-303, AZ-304, maybe CRISC.

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • beadsbeads Senior Member Member Posts: 1,520 ■■■■■■■■■□
    chrisone said:
    beads said:
    Imposter syndrome is generally associated with women and minorities of color who view themselves as successful due to EoE policy not because of what they have accomplished.


    - b/eads

    Not going to lie, I kind of read this as being a little racist. Assuming and categorizing that only minorities are subjected to imposter syndrome. "Please correct me if I misunderstood you here" 

    I will be clear I know you weren't trying to be racist and I am in no way offended, but ALL people have emotions and deal with their own disappointments. Everyone has struggles in life and are always comparing and competing with each other. That is the nature of human beings. Being white, black, brown, etc, doesn't exclude you from these emotions. 

    No, not being racist but ironically taking a cue from SHRM.org material and experience dealing with numerous people who feel themselves inadequate in there promotion to a new level. My experience with this has primarily and SHRM backs this up as well as the LinkedIn search I linked, that imposter syndrome is most closely associated with 'Peter Principled' subjects. Women first and foremost are most likely to feel as though they have been promoted beyond their abilities. Second people of color, particularly in the 1980s were promoted quickly to fill quotas and gaps. That's not racism coming from me but I have seen this, particularly at very large corporations. I had a Hispanic boss that would gleefully tell staff he had no idea why he was promoted beyond the fact he was a minority. Didn't care back then, don't care today. Same goes for conversations I have had with any number of Blacks, AAPI, Hispanics or another other number of minorities in this country. How about those with disabilities or mixed racial characteristics? Guess what? I have hired them all! Promoted most categories in my career while you look for a reason to bring the conversation down to a base level you are most comfortable - the gutter. Yeah, its en vogue to do so today '\but without meeting self declared crisis head on you become part of the larger problem in society today.

    I posted links anyone could follow on LinkedIn but evidently you people went to the source your most comfortable - you opinions. If you have access to SHRM's (Senior Human Resource Manager) site you will see most of the dialogue revolves around females, particularly those of color as having the most problem with Imposter syndrome, once called 'Peter Principled'. Yes, it happens to white men as well. Even happens to good capable handicapped people as well (I fall into this range as well).

    If you have links to actual data or a discussion that shows real proof that this phenomena only affects successful white men, then please show us the demonstrable facts instead of empty conjecture and false platitudes.
  • CyberSecurityCyberSecurity CISSP, CHFI, CEH, A+, Project+ Member Posts: 85 ■■■□□□□□□□
    In a Socratic way of thinking, "I know that I know nothing", has helped me remove this feeling whenever it creeps back. No one knows everything and we're all, hopefully, learning new things daily.
    Ph.D. IT [UC] - 50% complete
    M.S.C.I.A. [WGU] - Completed 6/2018
    B.S.I.T.M. [WGU] - Completed 4/2017
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