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Is your employer requiring Covid-19 Vaccine?

TechGromitTechGromit Member Posts: 2,156 ■■■■■■■■■□
edited November 2021 in IT Jobs / Degrees
My girlfriend's employer drawn a line in the sand, get your Covid-19 Vaccine by Monday, Nov. 22nd, or your FIRED!  The companies position was due to mandates from the Federal government that any company that is a Medicare-certified health care facilities, providers, and suppliers to ensure their employees are vaccinated. We are both vaccinated, but it boggles our mind that some people are so resistant to getting vaccinated that they are willing to lose there jobs over it.  A registered nurse or other professional, you can't just go down the street and get a job at another company that doesn't have this requirement, because every organization that engages in  healthcare will have the same requirement. Is the conviction so strong that they will willing to give up there career and go work at McDonald's?! 

My employer has issued orders that if your a senior manager and above or a new hire you must get the Vaccine or look for another job. No directive yet for lower level employees, but I can see they will be requiring it sooner or later, given Biden order for employers of 100 or more employees must get the 
Vaccine. Is your employer mandating you get the Covid-19 Vaccine?
Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Not at my employer or anyone else's that I know of here in NL. Though my wife and I are vaccinated so would not be a problem for us. 
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    yparkypark Member Posts: 120 ■■■□□□□□□□
    My employer is requiring vaccinations if you will be in the office. Going into the office is optional for my team but the other teams that need to be on site need to be vaccinated.
    2022 Goals: [PCNSE] [JNCIS-SP] [JNCIS-SEC] [JNCIS-DevOps]
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    UnixGuyUnixGuy Mod Posts: 4,566 Mod
    mandatory if you want to go in the office, I believe going to the office will be mandatory soon
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    JDMurrayJDMurray Admin Posts: 13,048 Admin
    Reporting your current vaccination status is mandatory, but so far no word on actual vaccination requirements or consequences for the unvaccinated. Masks in-office are mandatory regardless of vaccination status.
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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited November 2021
    I work at a bank...
    they stated you MUST be vaccinated in order to Work from the Office.

    Everyone is remote for now... so it's kinda moot.

    But they are planning a hybrid/voluntary 'return to office' beginning in January.
    I'll be waiting for the fireworks as soon as they drop the 'voluntary'  ;)



    TechGromit
    said:
    but it boggles our mind that some people are so resistant to getting vaccinated...

    Whelp... have you tried engaging any of them to find out why?

    I did;
    one of my colleagues stated it plainly:

    He already contracted covid19 (unfortunately).
    But at least it didn't kill him (fortunately).
    And now, he has antibodies (quantitatively proven via his bloodwork).
    So WHY does he need a vaccine?
    --

    Well obviously, i stated because the Vaccine gives 'extra' protection.
    He asked me if i could source him any peer-reviewed studies supporting this claim.
    Turns out.... i could Not. i could find plenty of talking-points saying as much... but not any actual science.

    He then told me to read about israel's situation. Read about their population's 78% vaccination rate. Read about their population's waning antibody levels.

    He then wondered aloud why no one has bothered to undertake a study tracking longterm antibody-levels of people like him (those with natural immunity).

    Maybe the longterm antibody-levels of this population is comparable to those who already took the vaccine?
    (Wouldn't that actually be GOOD news?)

    Or maybe their antibody-levels are even better?
    Or maybe they're worse off?
    Either way... isn't it worth finding out?

    Best case,
    if the antibody-levels are comparable/better.... then maybe the prospect of herd immunity could still be attainable after all.


    But we're Not have that conversation.
    It's just Shuddup and Take this Shot; whether you need it or not.

    At the end of the day,
    I suppose Big Pharm sees it as an unneccasry risk if we explored these possibilities.

    After all.... perpetual Covid Boosters are probably great for the bottom line.
    ;]

    just say'in...

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    Johnhe0414Johnhe0414 Registered Users Posts: 191 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Our clinic programs have to wear masks regardless of vaccination (all staff) and our administrative buildings do not have to wear masks but it is encouraged. It will be interesting to find out what will happen if we move forward with mandatory vaccinations.
    Current: Network+ | Project+ 
    Working on: PMP
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    JDMurrayJDMurray Admin Posts: 13,048 Admin
    It will be interesting to find out what will happen if we move forward with mandatory vaccinations.
    I think it will be even more interesting when boosters and public vaccination records are mandated for the rest of our lives. It's a good thing Bill Gates-funded organizations have already been working on these technologies for years. :|

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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    So the message of this thread is to hold on to my stock in vaccine makers  B)
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    JDMurrayJDMurray Admin Posts: 13,048 Admin
    If you bought Moderna 1+ years ago, and you haven't sold yet, you are doing very well.
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    TechGromitTechGromit Member Posts: 2,156 ■■■■■■■■■□
    edited November 2021
    volfkhat said:

    Whelp... have you tried engaging any of them to find out why?

    I did;
    one of my colleagues stated it plainly:

    He already contracted covid19 (unfortunately).
    But at least it didn't kill him (fortunately).
    And now, he has antibodies (quantitatively proven via his bloodwork).
    So WHY does he need a vaccine?
    I don't know, maybe it because if you don't get it, your company will fire you and you will not be able to find another job at anywhere but the smallest of employers, which will likely be outside your current field. Are you really will to throw away 10 or 15 years experience in a field like Nursing or other professional job where you work years to get your degree, license and put your time in to get a good paying seniority level to go work as a landscaper without benefits over your principals?    While my own employer doesn't require us to get vaccinated yet, all new hires MUST be vaccinated. 
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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    Johnhe0414Johnhe0414 Registered Users Posts: 191 ■■■■■□□□□□
    edited December 2021
    volfkhat said:

    Whelp... have you tried engaging any of them to find out why?

    I did;
    one of my colleagues stated it plainly:

    He already contracted covid19 (unfortunately).
    But at least it didn't kill him (fortunately).
    And now, he has antibodies (quantitatively proven via his bloodwork).
    So WHY does he need a vaccine?


    When i was a teen working my second job, i remember my manager telling me: "work is a privilege not a right"

    Current: Network+ | Project+ 
    Working on: PMP
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    DZA_DZA_ Member Posts: 467 ■■■■■■■□□□
    Our employer is making it mandatory to declare whether you have taken the shot or not. Mandatory for having the vaccine isn't enforced at corporate office roles but at branch level I believe vaccines are mandatory. At the end of the day it is a public health issue. Our org is aligned with federal and provincial recommendations on COVID guidelines.
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    JDMurrayJDMurray Admin Posts: 13,048 Admin
    DZA_ said:
    At the end of the day it is a public health issue. Our org is aligned with federal and provincial recommendations on COVID guidelines.
    How many other mandates has your employer enacted for other public health issues identified by Federal and Provincial health agencies?


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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited December 2021
    DZA_ said:
    Our employer is making it mandatory to declare whether you have taken the shot or not. Mandatory for having the vaccine isn't enforced at corporate office roles but at branch level I believe vaccines are mandatory. At the end of the day it is a public health issue. Our org is aligned with federal and provincial recommendations on COVID guidelines.

    Or stated another way,

    it's a Public Health Issue for the plebians who work at the Branch level.  But for the Corporate office roles.... it's apparently NOTPublic Health Issue.

    Funny how that works...
    :]
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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited December 2021
    I don't know, maybe it because if you don't get it, your company will fire you and you will not be able to find another job at anywhere but the smallest of employers, which will likely be outside your current field. Are you really will to throw away 10 or 15 years experience in a field like Nursing or other professional job where you work years to get your degree, license and put your time in to get a good paying seniority level to go work as a landscaper without benefits over your principals?    While my own employer doesn't require us to get vaccinated yet, all new hires MUST be vaccinated. 
     :D:D 

    So basically..... "Because i Said So".
    right?

    I mean... that's all fine & dandy....  let's just Not call that a "science-based" argument.
    :]


    But for what it's worth....
    i am guessing the ones who legitimately have 10-15 of experience/expertise.... in say, "Information Technology" (for example)...

    they've probably made a risk assessment/calculation to Bet on Themselves.
    You know... counting on landing a future Remote position where they can continue to operate within their same domain.

    Or maybe even... leverage their years of expertise/degrees/licenses/etc into an opportunity to start their own business/consultation?

    I kinda feel... it's a halfway plausible outcome.
    <3
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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    JDMurray said:
    It will be interesting to find out what will happen if we move forward with mandatory vaccinations.
    I think it will be even more interesting when boosters and public vaccination records are mandated for the rest of our lives. It's a good thing Bill Gates-funded organizations have already been working on these technologies for years. :|

    New trending GIF online season 3 episode 12 laughing mr burns office  3x12 mr burns evil laugh
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    JDMurrayJDMurray Admin Posts: 13,048 Admin
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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited December 2021
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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    volfkhat said:

    But we're Not have that conversation.
    It's just Shuddup and Take this Shot; whether you need it or not.



    Far from an expert in this area so feel free to take everything I say with a grain of salt lol.

    The "take this with a smile and love it approach" seems to me like a better safe than sorry mentality mixed in with doing some catching up as some nations feel that measures were not taken fast enough in the beginning to contain this. Seems like a no-win situation when decision makers are facing criticism from those that feel that not enough was being done and then criticism from those that don't agree with the measures that are being taken. Beyond the vaccinations themselves there are people that not only refuse additional measures such as wearing masks and social distancing, but even go as far as protesting against these actions. 

    It is great for people like your colleague that was infected and did not experience the worst case scenario, but obviously there are plenty of people that are. My brother-in-law and his girlfriend work in hospitals and strongly recommend the vaccinations based on what they are witnessing daily. Not to mention I know someone that requires an urgent/critical surgery that continues to be postponed because she would be required to go to ICU for recovery which is not a possibility because they are packed to capacity here. 99% of the people that I know which have been infected have recovered while one person was not so fortunate. If forcing the rest of us to be vaccinated to protect the vulnerable is the mandate then I am ok with it honestly because I thought part of the point of having more people vaccinated helps stop the spread. I naturally have an over rather than under mentality so would lean towards vaccinating more than necessary instead of not enough. 

    Full disclaimer: IT is my expertise - not pandemics, viruses, and vaccines  :p
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    LordQarlynLordQarlyn Member Posts: 693 ■■■■■■□□□□
    The government here is not only requiring mandatory vaccinations, with 6 month boosters required, we are required to get PCR tested every 2 weeks to maintain "green status" on the government health app. Going dark on the app basically means we are not allowed to enter malls, hotels, cinemas, gyms, clubs, or just about any other venue. Additionally some private employers even go further and require employees to get the nasal swab every week.
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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited December 2021
    E Double U said:
    If forcing the rest of us to be vaccinated to protect the vulnerable is the mandate then I am ok with it honestly because I thought part of the point of having more people vaccinated helps stop the spread

    Whelp... that's definitely what we were all told.
     :D

    But common sense kinda raises obvious questions:
    https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/all-14-air-passengers-from-south-africa-with-omicron-were-vaccinated-dutch-authorities

    i think it would be more fair to claim that Maybe getting vaccinated will help stop the spread.
    lol
     

    but again,
    i guess the main point that i was trying to ask:
    How do we really know if People with "Natural Immunity" should still get the Vaccine... if we won't bother to run a case-study to prove it either way?

    Seriously.... how many "boosters" is it gonna take before folks say "hey.... what a minute...."
    :D


    in other (more hopeful) news,
    Cuba's two vaccines are in process of being approved by the WHO.

    and it Sounds very promising... 
    Their Abdala vaccine was engineered in an entirely different way than Pfizer/Moderna/others.
    It may render Endless Boosters obsolete.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYW-IxUnPGA#t=259s

    (read more here)
    https://theconversation.com/cubas-covid-vaccines-the-limited-data-available-suggests-theyre-highly-effective-172725

    Bad news for BIG PHARMA...
    good news for everybody else
    :]

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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    volfkhat said:
    E Double U said:
    If forcing the rest of us to be vaccinated to protect the vulnerable is the mandate then I am ok with it honestly because I thought part of the point of having more people vaccinated helps stop the spread

    Seriously.... how many "boosters" is it gonna take before folks say "hey.... what a minute...."
    :D


    Hopefully never as I look at my stock portfolio lol. Though if no one raises an eyebrow at annual flu shots because there is no cure (as far as I know) then I am not sure why this would be treated any differently. 

    Regarding how would we "know", well as someone that does not have the resources (i.e. knowledge, facilities, etc) to test hypotheses myself then I am always relying on someone else's research anyways so it would seem like an exercise in futility for me to argue with anyone on this lol. 

    If people that have once been vaccinated can still be infected then it could mean that the vaccination only lasts for so long. Depending on when some got the shot one technically could no longer be vaccinated. If that indeed does lead to endless boosters then CHA-CHING  o:)

    Disclaimer: Far from being a medical professional and based on decisions I made in my 20s I should be one of the last people giving any type of medical advice hahaha. 
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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited December 2021
    Hopefully never as I look at my stock portfolio lol. 

    ha!
    Kidding... but kinda Not kidding,
    right?  :]

    When you mandate people to take the vaccine because it will "stop the spread".... i think we can all Rationalize why that makes sense.

    But what happens when that argument begins to falter (based on scientific evidence).... what's the rationalization then?



    E Double U said:

    Though if no one raises an eyebrow at annual flu shots because there is no cure (as far as I know) then I am not sure why this would be treated any differently. 
    Well.... are Flu Shots Mandated?
    Could that be the reason "No one raises an eyebrow" ?

    And, if Covid19 should be treated no differently than the Flu...

    then how do we justify that annual Covid19 boosters be Mandated.... but Not annual Flu vaccines?


    E Double U said:

    Regarding how would we "know", well as someone that does not have the resources (i.e. knowledge, facilities, etc) to test hypotheses myself then I am always relying on someone else's research anyways so it would seem like an exercise in futility for me to argue with anyone on this lol. 
    Right, same here.
    But it's Not rocket science.

    It COULD be done... somewhat easily.
    instead of FIRING people from there jobs for Not complying... give them the option to enroll in a scientific-study monitoring their status.

    But again, we're not having that conversation...


    E Double U said:

    If people that have once been vaccinated can still be infected then it could mean that the vaccination only lasts for so long. Depending on when some got the shot one technically could no longer be vaccinated. 

    Okay... so now we're approaching the DANGER Zone lol

    Here's the thing:
    the Vaccine was NEVER promised to prevent you from becoming Infected.

    It was only promised to Prevent you from ending up on a Ventilator (aka, serious illness).
    Look it up & see for yourself (if you don't believe me).

    This doesn't exactly support the whole "stop the spread" argument...


    --
    I'm double-jabbed... but i'm Not interested in those endless boosters.

    Gonna keep a close eye on that Abdala vaccine... see how it holds up over time.
    If it is proven to be Robust against future variants... i'll try to sign up for that instead.
    :]
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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    volfkhat said:
    Hopefully never as I look at my stock portfolio lol. 

    ha!
    Kidding... but kinda Not kidding,
    right?  :]

    When you mandate people to take the vaccine because it will "stop the spread".... i think we can all Rationalize why that makes sense.

    But what happens when that argument begins to falter (based on scientific evidence).... what's the rationalization then?



    E Double U said:

    Though if no one raises an eyebrow at annual flu shots because there is no cure (as far as I know) then I am not sure why this would be treated any differently. 
    Well.... are Flu Shots Mandated?
    Could that be the reason "No one raises an eyebrow" ?

    And, if Covid19 should be treated no differently than the Flu...

    then how do we justify that annual Covid19 boosters be Mandated.... but Not annual Flu vaccines?


    E Double U said:

    Regarding how would we "know", well as someone that does not have the resources (i.e. knowledge, facilities, etc) to test hypotheses myself then I am always relying on someone else's research anyways so it would seem like an exercise in futility for me to argue with anyone on this lol. 
    Right, same here.
    But it's Not rocket science.

    It COULD be done... somewhat easily.
    instead of FIRING people from there jobs for Not complying... give them the option to enroll in a scientific-study monitoring their status.

    But again, we're not having that conversation...


    E Double U said:

    If people that have once been vaccinated can still be infected then it could mean that the vaccination only lasts for so long. Depending on when some got the shot one technically could no longer be vaccinated. 

    Okay... so now we're approaching the DANGER Zone lol

    Here's the thing:
    the Vaccine was NEVER promised to prevent you from becoming Infected.

    It was only promised to Prevent you from ending up on a Ventilator (aka, serious illness).
    Look it up & see for yourself (if you don't believe me).

    This doesn't exactly support the whole "stop the spread" argument...


    --
    I'm double-jabbed... but i'm Not interested in those endless boosters.

    Gonna keep a close eye on that Abdala vaccine... see how it holds up over time.
    If it is proven to be Robust against future variants... i'll try to sign up for that instead.
    :]
    The scientific study option would be interesting. Though I wonder would that just be seen as a way to get out of work while remaining employed (yes please!!!). 

    You make a good point about the flu shot not being mandated. My train of thought was people don't raise an eyebrow because we have been living with it for so long so we don't think twice about it. Of course I cannot prove this, but I think over time we may not think any more of these regular shots as an option any more than we think of flu shots. If flu shots would become mandated tomorrow I would imagine there being public outcry, but if that did become the case tomorrow then 20+ years from now I believe people would simply look at it as BAU (business as usual). I hate to admit it, but I think people can get used to anything over time no matter how disagreeable they initially feel. So if annual shots, social distancing, and remote working become the new norm then people will adapt - and complain, but still adapt. 

    I believe you as much as I believe anyone else. Like I said, I do not have the resources to perform my own research. So if I had to choose between listening to medical professionals within my circle and people on socal media or IT message boards (wink wink) then it is an easy decision for me lol. I agree with you on the vaccine not being a gurantee that you will not be infected. To borrow a quote from cdc.gov, "Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of infection...". Since this is one of the measures recommended by the government in the land upon which I reside, I take this measure along with the other recommendations of limited contact, face masks, and hand sanitizer. If all measures can help then why not. I can understand the hesitation of others, but it simply was not a problem for me. Lots of birth control options are less than 100% effective, but I still used them when I wasn't ready to become a parent because like vaccines my understanding was that it reduced the chances lol. 

    Regarding simply looking things up myself, I have come to the realization many years ago that we all can find whatever we are looking for via internet searches based on how we perform the search. Now the realibility of the sources of the results is up to the recipient - viewer discretion is advised :-)

    P.S. Enjoying the back and forth by the way. This is more fun than the boring risk meetings that I have at work. Keep it coming  o:)
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    Basic85Basic85 Member Posts: 189 ■■■□□□□□□□
    No requirment yet but their a surcharge for medical insurance for the unvaccinated, which gives incentive to employees ot get it.  
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    JDMurrayJDMurray Admin Posts: 13,048 Admin
    Basic85 said:
    No requirment yet but their a surcharge for medical insurance for the unvaccinated, which gives incentive to employees ot get it.  
    One wonders why there has never been such for all of the other vaccinations that have been available, such as the annual influenza vaccine(s).

    I'm predicting it will be the lawyers that will, one day, rescue the citizenry from the megalomaniacal politicians and greedy corporations.

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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    JDMurray said:
    Basic85 said:
    No requirment yet but their a surcharge for medical insurance for the unvaccinated, which gives incentive to employees ot get it.  
    One wonders why there has never been such for all of the other vaccinations that have been available, such as the annual influenza vaccine(s).

    I'm predicting it will be the lawyers that will, one day, rescue the citizenry from the megalomaniacal politicians and greedy corporations.

    Rescued by lawyers? How bad of shape are we in lol
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    volfkhatvolfkhat Member Posts: 1,058 ■■■■■■■■□□
    edited December 2021
    The scientific study option would be interesting. Though I wonder would that just be seen as a way to get out of work while remaining employed (yes please!!!). 
    Well.. I guess i was talking about having your blood drawn once every 4-6 weeks (in order to track antibody levels).
    As long as you choose to participate in the program... you can remain employed.
    i don't see that translating into  "get out of work".   
    (if anything... it's more of an extra inconvenience)
    :]


    E Double U said:

    If all measures can help then why not. I can understand the hesitation of others, but it simply was not a problem for me.
    Lots of birth control options are less than 100% effective, but I still used them when I wasn't ready to become a parent because like vaccines my understanding was that it reduced the chances lol. 
    That's probably a shaky counterpoint, right?

    i mean...
    were you Mandated by the governemnt to use contraceptives?
    Or was it your choice?

    Or, even more direct,
    What if the government Manadated that all unmarried women take 'the pill'?
    Would you still stand by your "it reduces the chances" justification?


    E Double U said:

    Regarding simply looking things up myself, I have come to the realization many years ago that we all can find whatever we are looking for via internet searches based on how we perform the search. Now the realibility of the sources of the results is up to the recipient - viewer discretion is advised :-)
    ha!
    Well you certainly got me there :]

    Nonetheless, i'm going to share this segment with you anyway:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJE7Tc8YGsc

     Just posted Sunday evening <3  <3
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    kaijukaiju Member Posts: 453 ■■■■■■■□□□
    edited December 2021
    *** DISCLAIMER *** My reply is not geared towards any specific commenter.

    I got the vacc before it was mandated so it was a moot issue for me.

    My family has been put in lockdown (not that wimpy quarantine in the US) many times in the last19 months because of contact tracing, kids having weird fevers and rapid spread of Covid in our area. We got our vaccination as soon as it was available.

    Too many people are falling for sensationalized reporting/creative reporting on both sides of the vaccination debacle so the "truth" is hidden in the murkiness of political nonsense. If you do not want to get the vaccine, don't get it but do everybody a favor and go to a anti-vaccine hospital/ER if you get Covid so you do not occupy the much needed beds in ICU when the next wave hits. Many deaths could have been saved by using simple common sense. But as we all know, common sense is not so common.     

    I live closer to the original outbreak than most of you so I have taken this situation, the pandemic, very serious since I first heard about the outbreak it in January 2020.
    Work smarter NOT harder! Semper Gumby!
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    E Double UE Double U Member Posts: 2,232 ■■■■■■■■■■
    kaiju said:

    I got the vacc before it was mandated so it was a moot issue for me.

     But as we all know, common sense is not so common.     

    My line of thinking as well. 
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