Getting into networking using Cisco/Juniper is lacking...

That Random Guy

So maybe you will have a different opinion than me, but my experience thus far as a network engineer has been that Cisco and Juniper do not make it simple for you to just grab their software and try to lab it.

It's very easy to say "but just use CML" or "just use GNS" when the reality is these corporations have made it very blatantly obvious they don't want people doing that. Why do I say that?

Well, for one thing, you need contracts with these guys to get their software. So if I'm trying to lab for a specific something and these options don't support what we're trying to do, what's next?

Oh, I guess I'll just spend a couple hundred on hardware that may or may not work because I have to get it used. Let's be real folks... if 80 dollars for a switch that used to cost hundreds sounds too good to be true... it probably is. Also clue in again to the fact that hey... you need a CONTRACT to get software.

GNS3 does not have the image nor the model I need to lab with for testing what I use at work. Juniper support is lacking for it as well. CML seems like it supports Cisco-made custom IOS images that may run and behave like the features you need but from what I've read, you need a compatible image still to use in their CML solution. You can't just spin up some random catalyst switch and then download your needed specific version to run a 1:1 test for what you maybe use in the real world. You have to use their Frankenstein image because "that's just the way it is".

Don't even get me started on VNet. Really? Can't even download AnyConnect anymore. Juniper's own online vlab thing is at least accessible compared to Cisco but their labs are very limited and very locked. They do not offer the same flexibility and customization/support that I always feel like I had from something as bare bones as Packet Tracer. Of all things!

Cisco and Juniper can have their stupid market. I give up. It shouldn't be this hard to just lab their stupid products. I can download a trial of Windows directly from Micro$oft without this much hassle.

For this reason, I am not interested in moving into networking at all anymore. Tired of it. Sticking with Linux. Something that I can actually just try to learn without having to fork over money as if we aren't going through some inflation.

Just waiting for the day when Cisco/Juniper get hit with ransomware to get their just desserts.

volfkhat

BWAHAHAHA

I can always appreciate a good Cisco rant!

I Agree with your points.
All my "labbing" with Cisco Stops & Starts with their Packet Tracer simulator.
Everything else i basically learned "on the job" using real hardware.

Well actually... one time, i was able to spin up Cisco ISE using an Eval OVA build. 
That was cool

But anyway... Cisco is on the way out regardless.
Arista is eating their lunch.
And all of these cheaper, SD-WAN, no-name competitors are Eating cisco's lunch too.


Not sure about Juniper... i think they have a bigger Marketshare inside of ISPs.

But i dont want to sound like a Hater.... pivoting into cisco/networking has been very rewarding (financially) for me.
I'm glad it's worked out for me... but i jumped in back in 2016.

Not so sure i'd do it again in 2024

Regardless, i commend you for learning "new" skills.  Keep growing!

That Random Guy

No, I mean it. I'm not sticking around with this part of the field anymore. It shouldn't be a surprise that Cisco is making it very easy to try something like DNA Center in their DevNet meanwhile the other stuff is very hosed down. Not only that but they are very much trying to cater for "development" of programmatically doing things with Cisco's products in mind (of course, shiny shiny SDN). Again, they show this in their DevNet labs...

Juniper doesn't even have network designs (that I can find) covering traditional campus networks. They're force-feeding everybody campus fabrics just like Cisco is doing because their legacy tech cannot keep up with increasing changes in the industry. They're having to hack what already is and stack on top something with ISIS and BGP or LISP. God knows what else and IDGAF.

So instead of letting someone like me at least get a mastery of what already exists in the real world... they'd rather I learn campus fabrics and SDWAN because Uncle Sam is pushing that...

Great! Guess I'll never really learn anything in the end because nobody is going to hire me....

Screw 'em. I'm done. Cisco and Juniper can both rot.

henrythompson

Hi,

I can feel the same. Cisco and Juniper do make it difficult to access their software for labbing without contracts, which can be a huge barrier for self-learners and those trying to test specific setups. The reliance on CML and GNS3 with limited support for specific images and hardware is frustrating, especially when you're forced to use outdated or Frankenstein versions that don’t reflect real-world scenarios. 

Networking should be more accessible, especially for those trying to skill up. I get why you're feeling disillusioned and leaning toward Linux- it's much more open and flexible for learning and experimenting without the hurdles.

Thanks