out of work at 56

dhay13

Hey guys. Asking for advice here. Long time member but not very active on here. For the past 10 years I was working on a contract with the federal government as a Systems Security Administrator-team lead. Due to DOGE cuts my last day on the job was April 30th. I realize it has only been 3 weeks but after applying for close to 100 jobs I have got no responses other than rejections. When I was 4 I was in a car accident and can't use my right arm. I have never used that for any type of advantage but am now considering checking the box for 'yes I have a disability'. I can also see that hurting me too though. Thoughts on this? Does it really make a difference?
Also, since I have had no luck and I'm down almost $4000/month now I am considering a career change just to make some headway. That means my IT career will be pretty much over. I have my CISSP from 2016 and it is still valid. Also have CySA+, Security+, Network+ and had the Cisco CCNA CyberOps but let that expire a few years ago. I also have a B.S. in IT with an A.A.S. in Computer Forensics & Security. 
I would have thought I wouldn't have any problems landing another job with my credentials but after 3 weeks of nothing, not even an interview or a return call I'm starting to get worried..

Thanks!

JDMurray

Yes, I feel you. I was older than you when I was laid-off last year. I assumed another cybersecurity SOC job wouldn't be difficult to get with my experience. I worked with both recruiters and on my own. Orgs were very slow to respond to my applications and the hiring cycles were very long (6-12 weeks). The job postings on LinkedIn would have 100+ applications in less than 24 hours thanks to automation used by recruitment services. Many applications were submitted by unqualified people just to get their resumes in front of the eyes of any hiring managers. This caused a log-jam of (virtual) paperwork that showed the hiring process even more.

The slowed job market seemed caused by the high uncertainty that occurs in every US presidential election year when a new president will be elected to office. This made for bad predictions for the US and global economic future. However, this time there are also the DEI preferences, which typically exclude people in my "protected class" categories. I don't have any direct evidence that this was in-play with regards to myself, but I did notice the required questions on the employment forms were now asking for details on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, etc. that were not asked 15+ years ago. I can only imagine how that information is used to make employment decision in some organizations.

I started branching out into teaching just to earn some extra income. Now--15 months later--teaching is my main profession and I'm presently out of cybersecurity completely. (I even let my CISSP lapse.) I'm "getting by" and that's good enough for now.

One thing I can advise is to forget about the big corporations and concentrate on small (<1000 employee) companies in your job-hunting efforts. From what I've seen first-hand, the small companies are much more practical about needing skilled people of any ilk rather than conforming to a quota of hires that primarily satisfies a particular socio-political ideology. I'm assuming hiring managers in small companies are more accepting in regards to disabilities and veteran status too.

Good luck.

dhay13

Thanks. I did get a call this afternoon from a recruiter about a job. Will see how that plays out. Problem is it's onsite and about a 90 minute drive each way.

volfkhat

Reading your post really hurts.
seriously... it really does.


It's the same, timeless Story.
AGE DISCRIMINATION is a real thing.

We MUST all prepare for it before it's too late.

I was fortunate enough to get my "wake up call" 15 years ago when my aunt emailed me this story on 60 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwpdGyIY2fQ


i hope that you're "Lucky" enough Not to have a Mortgage.
i suggest its probably time to reevaluate your entire lifestyle/reality.
Proactively DOWNSIZING might be a great longterm play.

The U.S.A. best days are BEHIND it.
The privilege that we've all become accustomed to is done for.


I wish you Luck,
sincerely!

dhay13

My resume only goes back to 2006. Prior to that I was working in unrelated fields and started schooling in 2006 after losing my job as a laborer in a steel mill. So looking at my resume look about 20 years younger so I don't think it's age discrimination.

volfkhat

dhay13 said:

My resume only goes back to 2006. Prior to that I was working in unrelated fields and started schooling in 2006 after losing my job as a laborer in a steel mill. So looking at my resume look about 20 years younger so I don't think it's age discrimination.

What kind of Salary/Experience roles are you applying for?

20 years of experience can be considered "OLD" for some employers.


If/when my current employment situation ends prematurely...

my next/updated resume will only list the last 10 years.
Granted, i won't need to apply for Senior roles.


Your mileage may vary... obviously.

dhay13

volfkhat said:

dhay13 said:

My resume only goes back to 2006. Prior to that I was working in unrelated fields and started schooling in 2006 after losing my job as a laborer in a steel mill. So looking at my resume look about 20 years younger so I don't think it's age discrimination.

What kind of Salary/Experience roles are you applying for?

20 years of experience can be considered "OLD" for some employers.


If/when my current employment situation ends prematurely...

my next/updated resume will only list the last 10 years.
Granted, i won't need to apply for Senior roles.


Your mileage may vary... obviously.

I have been applying for SOC analyst roles or cybersecurity analyst roles targeting around $100,000. I was at $112,000 at my last job but at this point having a job is more important to me than getting top pay. The last 10 years I was doing vulnerability management. Running Nessus scans and remediating or mitigating all findings on over 28,000 servers. I don't have SOC team experience but worked pretty closely with the SOC team.

JDMurray

I'm wondering how well AI is working in cybersecurity products today. The hope is that fewer humans will be needed in SOC environments, and those remaining will be at lower wages. A near-complete turnover of personnel is needed to establish a lower wage profile for a department. 

volfkhat

JDMurray said:

I'm wondering how well AI is working in cybersecurity products today. The hope is that fewer humans will be needed in SOC environments, and those remaining will be at lower wages. A near-complete turnover of personnel is needed to establish a lower wage profile for a department. 

That's pretty good insight...

powerfool

I know that age discrimination broadly exists... and it does happen in technology.  However, I don't think it is as prevalent as people thinks it is.  The market is just really bad right now.  Companies that aren't laying people offer are mainly hoping for attrition.  I expect that even with job postings, many of the positions aren't even real (this has been discussed a lot out there in the world).  It makes it tough and it wastes time.  They're mainly mining data and building a list of candidates in case they do need to replace someone quickly.

I'll add:  I haven't been laid off in a long time.  But I have had two jobs (or more) for 11 years, mainly to get ahead and save more for retirement.  However, these past two years have been really rough and I am at a point that I am treading water with the extra jobs just because my bonuses dropped by 90%, taxes still went up.  Some of my "extra" work is looking at risk now (which does include teaching).  I am looking to get into some other areas now.

Something I think is relatively easy for technically oriented folks is to pick up a trade that has some easy win type of work.  For instance, HVAC is something that is intimidating to many, but really isn't that complicated.  Doing "AC Tuneups" and getting certified to handle refrigerants isn't very difficult at all; I did so to install my own system.  And HVAC is actually a relatively corrupt industry in terms of the local companies.  They have "turf" and they try to mess with other companies by doing a denial of service by getting people to constantly call for quotes.  Just work by word of mouth and offer good service at a reasonable price.

volfkhat

powerfool said:

...

I'll add:  I haven't been laid off in a long time.  But I have had two jobs (or more) for 11 years, mainly to get ahead and save more for retirement.  However, these past two years have been really rough and I am at a point that I am treading water with the extra jobs just because my bonuses dropped by 90%, taxes still went up.  Some of my "extra" work is looking at risk now (which does include teaching).  I am looking to get into some other areas now.

Another interesting take.

How old are you, range-wise?

Im in my mid-40's... and currently working 2x so that i can be retired at 50 (hopefully)

powerfool

Mid-40s.  I don't think early retirement is really in the cards the more I look at it.  Sure, I could get enough money together to do it, but it comes with a huge penalty for Social Security.  I think I will be able to at least not really care about the stressors at work nearly as much.

E Double U

On a few occasions I have used different means to get jobs besides just sending applications. With one employer I saw they did not have any vacancies listed on their website, but did list their HR email. I sent an email to that inbox using my cover letter as the email text with my resume attached. They responded with a position that I would end up working in for three years. 

On another instance I had an application rejected because I didn't meet the language requirements. I actually replied to the email requesting to still have my resume forwarded to the hiring manager for feedback on my skills. Simultaneously I looked up someone at the company that was willing to connect and this person just so happened to be in the same department as the hiring manager of the role I was applying for. I shared I had been rejected based on language and he thought that was nonsense based on my skills and went to speak to someone about it. Next thing I was contacted by the hiring manager for an interview. 

I share those experiences to say if the typical job application isn't working for you then try something else. I like to check on LinkedIn for people that work at companies that I am interested in and see if they are willing to connect. It doesn't always work, but the times people were willing to connect it was very helpful. 

volfkhat

powerfool said:

Mid-40s.  I don't think early retirement is really in the cards the more I look at it.  

Sure, I could get enough money together to do it, but it comes with a huge penalty for Social Security.  
I think I will be able to at least not really care about the stressors at work nearly as much.

If i may ask... can you elaborate on the "penalty" you speak of?

Based on the doom & gloom stories accounts i have read...
Social Security will cross a financial threshold around 2033. This will result in them needing to reduce the Payouts by 20% (compared to where they are now).

Obviously there will be hell to pay for that.

Possible solutiion:
1) Increase the Payroll Tax Cap; this is what funds SS... and its currently around $165,000.

but the More likely Solution:
They're just gonna RAISE the minimum age before you can collect SS.
So if it's 62 now... maybe they will make it 67.

Long story short...
I just don't see SS being around regardless (for folks Our age, or younger).

Thus, i would never let Social Security be a factor in whether or Not i want to retire early.

But i certainly don't have all the answers.

But yeah... anyway, just curious on hearing more about the SS penalty

powerfool

volfkhat said:

powerfool said:

Mid-40s.  I don't think early retirement is really in the cards the more I look at it.  

Sure, I could get enough money together to do it, but it comes with a huge penalty for Social Security.  
I think I will be able to at least not really care about the stressors at work nearly as much.

If i may ask... can you elaborate on the "penalty" you speak of?
...

Social Security benefits are calculated based on your highest 35 years of earnings.  Retiring at 50 when your earning potential is likely at its highest penalizes you in two ways.

1) You likely didn't even have 35 years of earnings... which means you get $0 for each of those years.
2) Even if you did have 35 years of earnings (I would at 50... I started working at 14... according to the Social Security Administration), many of those years are rather low earnings, so skipping several years of much better earnings won't push those lower years out of the calculation

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/retirebenefit1.html

In terms of how they accomplish the fixes... the cap is different each year: https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/maxtax.html

That is the far more likely "fix".

Raising the retirement age happens, too.  However, they grandfather in people closer to retirement age, so that doesn't have much of an impact in the short term.  Also, the minimum age isn't adjusted, it is the age to receive "full benefits" that gets raised.  So, anyone can collect benefits at 62, but they are lower.  Depending on your age, your full benefits age will be higher: https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html

That is all a scam, though.  Every financial planner I have ever heard talk about it extols the virtue of waiting until your full benefits age.  Why would anyone want to do that?  Maybe they have a crystal ball and know they're going to live healthily to 105 years old.  In that case, you bet they should wait to get their full benefits.  Most folks aren't going to make it nearly that far.  Some people won't even make it to their full benefits age.  They get completely ruined in that situation.  My recommendation is to always start getting benefits on the first day of eligibility.  If you don't need the money (which is what you would automatically be saying if you waited until full retirement age), invest the money.  You will more than make up the difference in lower benefits from the return on investment.  Plus, you have a lump sum built up that you get to choose what to do with.  If you're married and you die, your spouse gets to choose whose benefits to use... whichever is higher.  But if expenses don't change significantly upon the death of one spouse, they'll be put in a major bind.  Taking benefits early and having that sum gives some peace of mind for such a situation.

What they may do is further penalize taking benefits early to further incentivize people to wait until full retirement age.  The reason they want people to wait and are willing to pay more money... they expect you to die not long afterwards.

Social Security isn't going anywhere.  It will just be diminished, if anything.

The only ways I would feel entirely comfortable with retiring at 50 would be if:

1) I have over $27M investments,
2) I have enough money to more than cover my expenses if I have terminal illness, or
3) There is enough demand for my skills that I could easily go back to work if the numbers weren't looking good

powerfool

E Double U said:

I like to check on LinkedIn for people that work at companies that I am interested in and see if they are willing to connect. It doesn't always work, but the times people were willing to connect it was very helpful. 

I am actually rather worried about LinkedIn.  It has turned into an opportunity for scammers to try and harvest personal information.  I am extremely cautious.  I had a "recruiter" reach out to me this week and I just didn't like the tone of the message... it had this half-hearted attempt to address exactly each of the significant skills in my background.  It was like this person was trying just check each box so that they wouldn't be identified as fraudulent.  In fact, the job title was the same as my current job title (which... no, I would want a better job title) and they didn't outline any specific area of responsibility or skills for this particular role.

I looked up the company's profile and there were no employees listed... not even the recruiter that reached out.

As the market continues with uncertainty, I think more people will be taken advantage of through similar means.

E Double U

powerfool said:

E Double U said:

I like to check on LinkedIn for people that work at companies that I am interested in and see if they are willing to connect. It doesn't always work, but the times people were willing to connect it was very helpful. 

I am actually rather worried about LinkedIn.  It has turned into an opportunity for scammers to try and harvest personal information.  I am extremely cautious.  I had a "recruiter" reach out to me this week and I just didn't like the tone of the message... it had this half-hearted attempt to address exactly each of the significant skills in my background.  It was like this person was trying just check each box so that they wouldn't be identified as fraudulent.  In fact, the job title was the same as my current job title (which... no, I would want a better job title) and they didn't outline any specific area of responsibility or skills for this particular role.

I looked up the company's profile and there were no employees listed... not even the recruiter that reached out.

As the market continues with uncertainty, I think more people will be taken advantage of through similar means.

I actually delete conversations initiated by recruiters because I have no interest. Of course when I engage with people I am not offering them something, but instead seeking to connect and I am transparent about why. 

dhay13

Just to follow up...still searching. No interviews yet but I do have a video interview scheduled for Monday but I'm not a big fan of the company. Will see how it goes. I have applied for over 150 jobs so far.

JDMurray

Your job right now is to find a job. Make sure you are working at it eight hours every workday. 

dhay13

JDMurray said:

Your job right now is to find a job. Make sure you are working at it eight hours every workday. 

Yeah pretty much all I do all day until my wife gets home