CCNA Proposal

Mr Big

I don’t know if I am in the right place post this, so please pardon my ignorance.

In Febuary I made an an agreement with a company if I get my CCNA and CCDA I would be hired on. They got impatient in me acquiring my CCDA (failed twice) and decided to break the agreement four months ago. Today, I received an e-mail from the hiring manager giving me a proposal to “associate” my certification with them. They need three people, however they only have 2 with CCNA. I’m assuming they don’t want to hire a third or something like that.

The bottom line is, they are willing to compensate me, I just got an e-mail a second ago saying $50.00 a month to associate my CCNA with their company. Is this a little too LITTLE? How much do you think I should do this for? They said it’s perfectly fine with Cisco to do this, I just won’t be a permanent hire-on.

wildfire

This is a classic partnership sting! Each company needs so many of each level certification to maintain their partnership level. Obviously they are short of CCNA level people and want your name to make up the numbers!
Im sure when Cisco devised the partner program this is no what they had in mind! these companies get benefits because they have qualified staff on TAP no because they fudge the numbers!

I know a CCIE who did this and they didnt pay him, untill he disasociated his CCO with the company, then they coughed up.

Silver Bullet

I know that you aren't asking whether you should do this or not but rather how much to do it for........BUT. There is noway that I would do that. If they want a 3rd CCNA listed with their company then BY GEORGE.....THEY NEED TO HIRE ONE!!!

Mr Big

They said they just want to do it for a few months, they just became a Cisco partner so I'm not sure if they are just going to get more $ and then be stable enough to hire a third? They also said in the future they may hire me on.

BubbaJ

Mr Big wrote:

They said it’s perfectly fine with Cisco to do this, I just won’t be a permanent hire-on.

You need to check with Cisco. This is not fine with them. Not only will they be putting their status in jeopardy, but you will be putting your certification on the line. If they are caught, you will lose your CCNA and have to wait before you can get it back.

mikej412

They want the benefits without having to pay the price.

The other thing -- I'm not sure if its just for CCIEs.... but for CCIEs, once you associate, if you "quit" they get to "keep" the benefit of your association and a new Partner doesn't get the benefit of your certification until after 1 year. Does anyone here know if that is true (for CCIEs, and if its true for the other Certifications).

If "Cisco doesn't have a problem with this" then these guys shouldn't have a problem providing you with their Reps phone number so that you can verify yourself.

As for $50 bucks -- just to answer the original question -- I'm still laughing (I hope that answers your question).

BubbaJ wrote:

If they are caught, you will lose your CCNA and have to wait before you can get it back.

Do you have a web link for that?

wildfire

Mike, dont think this 1 year thing is true as I had this exact discussion with one the CCIE's at work last week, he did exactly that, as he is a contractor not permenant my company dont associate him, and have enough CCIE's not to bother. He gets $1500 a month for just being on their books

I cant imagine for 1 second Cisco want this or allow it. The idea is a Gold partner has enough CCIE's of staff to offer gold level service to its customers! cheating it to get benefits and discounts is nothing short of Fraud!

I wouldnt do it thats for sure. Theres better ways to make $50, ring him back and ask did you say $500? no? thought not bye!

Mr Big

Are you sure this is not fine with Cisco? If not, I am going to decline. I also just would like to know for a FACT that this isn't ok with Cisco, just for future knowledge in case it comes up again with me or others. Any links on their site to refer to will be helpful.

BubbaJ wrote:

Mr Big wrote:

They said it’s perfectly fine with Cisco to do this, I just won’t be a permanent hire-on.

You need to check with Cisco. This is not fine with them. Not only will they be putting their status in jeopardy, but you will be putting your certification on the line. If they are caught, you will lose your CCNA and have to wait before you can get it back.

wildfire

heres a link to cisco partner overview

http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/pr11/pr193/index.html

Personlly I think your crazy thinking about it for $50 but thats my opinion good luck anyway

Mr Big

I would consider it for more like 500 to 1K a month, thanks for the link!

mikej412

Silver and Gold:
All certified personnel requirements must be satisfied by a unique full-time regular employee residing in country seeking certification and in good standing with Cisco. The only exception to this is for CCIEs.

Page 9 in this PDF:
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/765/tools/cpapp/audit_doc.pdf


And for my CCIE Question:
Page 31/32

Losing Partner:
If the loss of a CCIE takes a certified partner below the number of CCIEs required for certification, partner is to notify Cisco of its non-compliance within 30 days. Upon receipt of such notice, partner may qualify for an extension of six months to replace the CCIE in order to avoid re-certification. A partner who voluntarily terminates the employment of a CCIE may not qualify for the time extension. During the extension period, the partner will retain its certification as long as all other certification requirements are met.

If a partner does not notify Cisco of its non-compliance with the CCIE requirement within 30 days and Cisco identifies the deficiency, the partner may be given an extension of 60 days to replace the CCIE in order to avoid de-certification. This extension period will begin upon Cisco’s notification to the partner of non-compliance.

Gaining Partner:
If a partner hires a CCIE away from another Cisco certified or specialized partner, Cisco will not count this individual toward certification or specialization for the hiring partner for a period of 12 months from the date of hire. This rule does not apply if a Cisco certified or specialized partner terminated the CCIE. In this case, Cisco will require documentation from the partner that terminated the CCIE.

BubbaJ

I'm not sure you have access to this document:

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/765/tools/cpapp/032706audit_doc.pdf

Here is what Cisco requires of the employer:

All certified personnel requirements must be satisfied by a unique full-time regular employee residing in country seeking certification and in good standing with Cisco. The only exception to this is for CCIEs. Partners may employ full-time contracted employees (not to exceed 50% of the required number of CCIEs) to fulfill the CCIE certified personnel requirements. Persons who are certified at a higher level and not counted towards any part of the requirements may be used to meet lower level certified personnel requirements within a given track network/internetworking or design). To fulfill the sales expert requirement, the extra personnel must pass the sales expert exam.

The Cisco Logo agreement covers what mey happen to someone that misuses their certification:

http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/downloads/guest/learning/c644/ccmigration_09186a00801f792c.pdf

Mr Big

Is there anything that says along the lines of: A Cisco Partner cannot rent off a certification from someone external to the company or it will be considered Fraud? I was going to reply to them and show this.

mikej412

Here's what level of certs they need to have for the different levels:
http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/program/channel_partner_program_requirements.html#a1

BubbaJ wrote:

The Cisco Logo agreement covers what mey happen to someone that misuses their certification:

http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/downloads/guest/learning/c644/ccmigration_09186a00801f792c.pdf

This is the logo agreement.... but which paragraph says that this would be misuse?

Last time I heard about this -- someone on the Cisco Web Site discussion forum was looking for people to associate their certs.... and that person is still posting today.

mikej412

Mr Big wrote:

Is there anything that says along the lines of: A Cisco Partner cannot rent off a certification from someone external to the company or it will be considered Fraud? I was going to reply to them and show this.

Well -- its wrong for Silver and Gold.... maybe Premier doesn't get audited.... still re-reading.

BubbaJ

mikej412 wrote:

but which paragraph says that this would be misuse?

Paragraphs 4.1 and 4.2 is what Cisco will refer to. Cisco considers is a logo misuse if you do it on purpose.

4.1. Termination By Either Party. Either party may terminate this Agreement at any time, with or without cause, upon
thirty (30) days written notice to the other party.

4.2. Termination By Cisco. Cisco may, in its sole discretion, terminate this Agreement at any time upon the occurrence of any one of the following events:

(b) Misrepresentation by the Certification Candidate of his or her Certification;

(d) Use of the Marks by the Certification Candidate in a manner that Cisco believes would potentially injure Cisco’s reputation;

I am somewhat acquainted with a guy that lost a certification, and was unable to reapply for several years. He worked at my company in a different part of the country. He aslo lost his job because he didn't consult our company before accepting such an offer.

I got the impression that Cisco doesn't play any games with this sort of thing.

mikej412

BubbaJ wrote:

Paragraphs 4.1 and 4.2 is what Cisco will refer to. Cisco considers is a logo misuse if you do it on purpose.

So if you associate your ID, but don't use the logo on a "fake business card" then its okay? Its sort of why people running scams won't mail stuff -- the scam isn't illegal as long as they don't commit mail fraud.


http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/partner_programs/certification/termsandconditions.pdf

II.1.2 Audits for Premier certifications are typically conducted without Cisco or the Auditor visiting Company's site. However, Cisco reserves the right to require an onsite audit before awarding a Premier certification.


The audit doc seems to be just for Silver and Gold (per its title).

This doc still doesn't answer the questions.... but gives some more information on the distribution of certifications required.
http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/program/channel_partner_program_qa.html#3


Interesting -- March 2007 there will be fewer certified individuals required for silver and gold level, but there will be an allocation to roles.... It's always fun reading the partner stuff for a company to get an idea where they are going.

Danman32

Well, what BubbaJ quoted says 'full time employees' with the exception of CCIEs which can be contracted, as long as you have 50% of the CCIEs as full time employees.

Novell did something like that a long time ago. If a company paid for your certs and you left shortly after getting your cert, your cert was suspended for I think 6 months. That was done away with before I got certified in 1992, and besides, I paid for that cert out of my own pocket.

Come to think of it, an associate of my former boss offered me a similar proposal. I declined since I was now in Florida and they were in NY. If I was still local to them, I might have agreed, since I could still provide the expertise if needed. It was a bit difficult to do that over 1000 miles back then.

My opinion, I wouldn't risk it. If they need you that bad, they should hire you. Getting a CCNA is not easy and them not having enough proves it.