who actually works in IT

caswell22

im studying towards MCSE. i have a crappy job working in a betting shop, im studying in my spare time but dont get alot of hands on experince all i can do is read the books. just wondered how many of you actually work in IT, if you do work in IT the exams and studying must be easier for you guys?

bighornsheep

I'm finishing my last year of studies in Computer Science. When I started getting my certifications, I was working as a Computer Tech. person, so I went for A+, MCP, and MCDST. I'm currently working towards CCNA and MCSA, as my goal is system admin and network support, however I'm currently employed part-time as a database analyst.

Sie

Working with it is a big help but that doesnt mean thats the only way.

Home studying helps, setting up networks etc.

Why dont you look at a part time job or voulenteer (spelling?) work that is more computer focused?

Would be an entry level job but you woul get a more hands on experience of the systems.

Even still does your current boss know of your interest and it there anything you could do there?

caswell22

the thing is i need a job what pays at least what im on now (£18 k/year) i have been looking for entry level IT jobs on sites like monster.co.uk and reed.co.uk but no one ever gets back to me, im hoping that with a couple more mcp's under my belt i will get a chance, im just worried if i get a job they will expect me to know everything cos im MCSA but with not much hands on experince im not goin to know as much as they expecting.

rockstar81

there are lots of entry level jobs going, your better off looking on jobcentreplus web site if your not having to much luck with reed and monster, the reason for this is most jobs on jobcentreplus web site are the companys direct where as the ones listed on reed and monster are agencies looking on behlaf of the client..half these agencies are awful and when you speak to them and say I have a MCSA you might as well be saying I have 2 eggs and bacon here as they have no idea what it even is(the mcsa that is )

RD28327

I am mostly doing contract and project based computer tech/support work. A regular long-term or even permanent job would be nice. The main reason I am going for more certs is so I can get my foot in the door somewhere, be able to stay for a while, even hang my hat and sit a spell (had to use the Beverly Hillbilies reference).

I've got A+, Network+, and an MCP (70-271) under my belt. Will finish up my MCDST by taking exam 70-272 next month. After that, it's either a CCNA or MCSA. Don't know which one to start on next. Just sitting dowm momentarily trying to decide between MCSA and CCNA can drive me batty!

A heart attack in 2001 took me out of action. I was doing a computer support job for the state of NC, but, things got worse again that I decided to leave before I wound up having a second heart attack.

These days, my health is fine. The nice thing about contract work is not having to deal with politics and personality conflicts. But, I really could use some steady income (and more work to get me out of the house).

borumas

Well you don't want to get to many certs if you do not have experience to back it up or people will not really want to hire you, I got hired with an A+ cert and my associates degree over a guy who was an MCP, Net+, and CNA certified. The boss told me that he hired me over that guy because they thought the guy would only work till something better came along shortly and leave so they took me over him. I work as a network technician full time (when I originally got hired I was a PC tech) so I get to mess with mostly 3500's and 3550's every day and occasionally mess with a 4507 or 6509 from time to time, but while I have a decent handle on messing around in the device I do not know the theory and info on allot of what is going on so I'm studying that with the CCNA books after work but it is hard. Heck it took me almost a year of studying to take and pass my Novell CNA with studying after work and having family time.

RussS

Systems Engineer - soon to be a Senior if I ever get off my butt and study some.

Alien

Independent Consultant...

Munck

I am a Security Consultant working in the financial industry. I started doing certifications when I was in my first IT-job (crappy sysadmin/helpdesk job btw.) Getting too many certifications without having the expecience to back it up can be "dangerous" IMO.

caswell22

borumas wrote:

Well you don't want to get to many certs if you do not have experience to back it up or people will not really want to hire you, I got hired with an A+ cert and my associates degree over a guy who was an MCP, Net+, and CNA certified. The boss told me that he hired me over that guy because they thought the guy would only work till something better came along shortly and leave so they took me over him. .

that maybe a good point! im going to start looking hard for an entry level job as soon as i have hot my MCSA i should have it done by 2 - 3 months. i have paid for traning for MCSE i have a year left to complete it all.

TheFORCE

After i passed my A+ i got hired as a Pc technician, right now i do simple things but i figured, you have to start with baby steps before you learn to walk and after you learn to walk you can learn to run. hehehe

sprkymrk

caswell22 wrote:

borumas wrote:

Well you don't want to get to many certs if you do not have experience to back it up or people will not really want to hire you, I got hired with an A+ cert and my associates degree over a guy who was an MCP, Net+, and CNA certified. The boss told me that he hired me over that guy because they thought the guy would only work till something better came along shortly and leave so they took me over him. .

that maybe a good point! im going to start looking hard for an entry level job as soon as i have hot my MCSA i should have it done by 2 - 3 months. i have paid for traning for MCSE i have a year left to complete it all.

I completely disagree. Get all the certs you can whenever you can. There is no rule that says you have to put them all on your resume if you're afraid "too many" certs will cause you to lose the job.

garv221

sprkymrk wrote:

caswell22 wrote:

borumas wrote:

Well you don't want to get to many certs if you do not have experience to back it up or people will not really want to hire you, I got hired with an A+ cert and my associates degree over a guy who was an MCP, Net+, and CNA certified. The boss told me that he hired me over that guy because they thought the guy would only work till something better came along shortly and leave so they took me over him. .

that maybe a good point! im going to start looking hard for an entry level job as soon as i have hot my MCSA i should have it done by 2 - 3 months. i have paid for traning for MCSE i have a year left to complete it all.

I completely disagree. Get all the certs you can whenever you can. There is no rule that says you have to put them all on your resume if you're afraid "too many" certs will cause you to lose the job.

I agree, in no way is having certs going to hurt anyone. That boss very well could have said the same about a degree .

briangl

Well you don't want to get to many certs if you do not have experience to back it up or people will not really want to hire you...

So, if I am intelligent, hard working, have some ambition, am getting a technical education and want to better myself, this will be seen as a negative?

Danman32

briangl wrote:

Well you don't want to get to many certs if you do not have experience to back it up or people will not really want to hire you...

So, if I am intelligent, hard working, have some ambition, am getting a technical education and want to better myself, this will be seen as a negative?

It's called being overqualified for the job.

Olajuwon

I quit my systems admin(boring) job a month ago to start doing contracts. I am currently a network administrator on a short contract.

Get the certs while you can. You don't have to list them all.

Opi

i'm currently a student computer science, after the upcomming year i will go in my final year and i'll have to do 12 weeks of internship. Currently i have a network+ cert under my belt and working towards 70-270. I would also want do have 70-290 before i start applying for potential places. Want to be in a big company with possible chance to get hired. Is it wise to do this, getting those certs beforehand ?

I thought it was a good idea, to show the boss you have a certain level of competence above your normal Bachelor degree and also willing to learn.

borumas

So, if I am intelligent, hard working, have some ambition, am getting a technical education and want to better myself, this will be seen as a negative?

I agree, in no way is having certs going to hurt anyone. That boss very well could have said the same about a degree .

So if your hiring for a mid level to entry level position are you going to hire a guy with a cert that you need knowing he will likely stick around to gain experience and maybe grow with your organization, or are you going to hire someone who is way overqualified for the position and whom you will waste time and $ training to fill the job- only to have him jump ship in a few months when a more qualified higher paying job opens up for them somewhere else? It's just common sense that any employer is going to want to hire someone who they feel with be worth training and who will not be leaving them shortly after getting the job, hiring people is a very big pain for employers usually and they want people that will be with them for a few years, not just a few months. That was the point I was trying to make, although not listing all your certs for a lower qualifying job is a good idea.

keenon

i do and have for the past 6 years working my way up from cabling(cable "b" if u have done this then you know) to IT director level.. now i'm just working as a senior engineer after a CCIE..

for me its been a great career having no college & certs , to 1/3 of AS degree completed and 2 certs working on 3. this is coming from working in shipping/receiving among other past horrible job experiences from out of high school

definitely feel blessed

garv221

borumas wrote:

So, if I am intelligent, hard working, have some ambition, am getting a technical education and want to better myself, this will be seen as a negative?

I agree, in no way is having certs going to hurt anyone. That boss very well could have said the same about a degree .

So if your hiring for a mid level to entry level position are you going to hire a guy with a cert that you need knowing he will likely stick around to gain experience and maybe grow with your organization, or are you going to hire someone who is way overqualified for the position and whom you will waste time and $ training to fill the job- only to have him jump ship in a few months when a more qualified higher paying job opens up for them somewhere else? It's just common sense that any employer is going to want to hire someone who they feel with be worth training and who will not be leaving them shortly after getting the job, hiring people is a very big pain for employers usually and they want people that will be with them for a few years, not just a few months. That was the point I was trying to make, although not listing all your certs for a lower qualifying job is a good idea.

Why would I be applying for a lower level job with lower pay? That’s not going to happen. Also, what you are describing is false, jobs where people are hired in it at a lower level and trained have the highest turn over rate, employees get trained and certified, get experience and then go get a higher paying job.

briangl

It's called being overqualified for the job.

I just see it as a technical education and that's how I am presenting it to potential employers. I have enough initiative and discipline to sequester myself in the basement every night to study and do hands on practice. That should look good to people. If it doesn't it doesn't, I am not responsible for how other people perceive things. I am only responsible for myself and my family. Just as a degree shows that one has successfully completed a college education a certification shows successful completion of my self-education in I.T.

So if your hiring for a mid level to entry level position are you going to hire a guy with a cert that you need knowing he will likely stick around to gain experience and maybe grow with your organization, or are you going to hire someone who is way overqualified for the position and whom you will waste time and $ training to fill the job- only to have him jump ship in a few months when a more qualified higher paying job opens up for them somewhere else? It's just common sense that any employer is going to want to hire someone who they feel with be worth training and who will not be leaving them shortly after getting the job, hiring people is a very big pain for employers usually and they want people that will be with them for a few years, not just a few months.

I can only speak for myself, but I can't see not wanting to stay with a company for at least a couple of years. Ideally, I will find a company that I can advance in.

johnnyg5646

I am an "information technology specialist", which is just a fancy way of saying deskside support that handles more than just installing software and simple troubleshooting. I got the job mostly because of all the internships I had and my degree. I'd look into circuit city or best buy. Anythign to get some $$ and get some experience. Keep looking, it will all come together

GOOD LUCK!

borumas

Why would I be applying for a lower level job with lower pay? That’s not going to happen. Also, what you are describing is false, jobs where people are hired in it at a lower level and trained have the highest turn over rate, employees get trained and certified, get experience and then go get a higher paying job.

Good luck then, I guess you have never had the experience of applying for a job with your Net+ and MCP for which you should be perfect for, only to find out that they have several hundred applicants, many of whom are MCSE's and CCNA's on top of it. Then you think to yourself "these guys are way to overqualified for this job" and you find that since the market is saturated with these certified people that they are trying to get any job they can to stay in the field of IT- this has been my experience many times in my area. Heck, I was unemployed for 9 months trying to find work and getting beat out by allot of overqualified people for cruddy jobs before I got my current one 5 years ago. Maybe things are better where you are, I hope they are as it really sucks when you study hard for certs and still can't get work.

garv221

borumas wrote:

Why would I be applying for a lower level job with lower pay? That’s not going to happen. Also, what you are describing is false, jobs where people are hired in it at a lower level and trained have the highest turn over rate, employees get trained and certified, get experience and then go get a higher paying job.

Good luck then, I guess you have never had the experience of applying for a job with your Net+ and MCP for which you should be perfect for, only to find out that they have several hundred applicants, many of whom are MCSE's and CCNA's on top of it. Then you think to yourself "these guys are way to overqualified for this job" and you find that since the market is saturated with these certified people that they are trying to get any job they can to stay in the field of IT- this has been my experience many times in my area. Heck, I was unemployed for 9 months trying to find work and getting beat out by allot of overqualified people for cruddy jobs before I got my current one 5 years ago. Maybe things are better where you are, I hope they are as it really sucks when you study hard for certs and still can't get work.

Trust me, I hear you. I have had alot of experience applying for jobs as well as hiring and training new employees for my dept. I think the market is saturated like you said, but saturated with unexperienced people with certs such as CCNA/MCSE. I know more high paid people with no certs than I do high paid MCSE/CCNA's. I think you are putting to much emphasis on certs alone. A good well designed resume geared toward the position you are seeking along with the experience of already having a similiar position (not just experience working in IT) will get you into an interview. I know this becasue this how I operate when looking to fill positions.

caswell22

="it really sucks when you study hard for certs and still can't get work".

the training center i am at guarentees a job within 6 months of passing MCSE and sercurity + if they dont find you a job you get your training fee returned.

borumas

caswell22 wrote:

="it really sucks when you study hard for certs and still can't get work".

the training center i am at guarentees a job within 6 months of passing MCSE and sercurity + if they dont find you a job you get your training fee returned.

Ahh, that's a good program then, I know some technical schools do that but didn't know they would do that for MCSE's or other certs.

rcoop

I currently work as a "Professional Services Consultant" for a software company, and have for the past two years.

Before this, I worked my way up over 15 years with an insurance administration company (Mailroom -> Marketing Representative -> Data Processing Tech -> Junior Programmer -> Senior Programmer / DBA -> MIS Manager -> Director of IT -> Vice President).

When applying for my current job, which basically has primarily technical responsibilities for custom programming and systems integration work, most of it done at the customer's business in front of their technical experts and managers; my previous salary and job responsibilities were at a managerial level. And although I enjoyed management, the further up the ladder I went, the less time I was able to spend with the technology. I often supplemented my technical cravings by taking classes at the local colleges in the evenings and setting goals on certifications I was seeing on some of the resumes of the individuals I was hiring (more to know what information the cert represented than what the cert would do for me personally). I left after the company was sold (and transferring my duties to my equivalent at the new company was complete), and had a nice parachute to pursue a technical job.

I applied for two jobs, and received offers on both, both in industries (document imaging and aerospace) that I had no prior experience in, but had the skills and experience they were looking for. In all the interviews (multiple for each), I had to explain that I understood that the positions were not in management or necessarily had a path to management, and reinforced I wasn't looking to jump ship as soon as a management job (with higher pay) appeared. I guess luckily they believed me, either that or they desperately needed experienced help... looking back at the job I took, it was probably the later. I took, and am happily employed at the imaging company.

The best part of my job, and working for a software development company is the fact that I get to work with the newest technology (and many of the old too!). Another part of my job that is priceless when it comes to experience is I work projects from two weeks to four months integrating our software at the most diverse companies and government agencies... normally hand-in-hand with their business and technology managers and internal techs. It is satisfying to see how technology (and pretty expensive technology at that) can really make a dramatic difference to businesses and government processes. I also get to travel (mostly within Canada and the U.S.), and always enjoy getting to visit a new place I have never been.

I'm sure many of you would think I make a lot of money (based on what I've seen posted on TechExams), but I make less than most of my friends... and live near the beach in Orange County, California, which has a relatively high cost of living. I'm hoping to move soon, in order to purchase a bigger house with more land, probably in the midwest or southwest, but the amazing thing is I will be able to keep my job and work from home when I'm not travelling.

So, I've got a job (and not looking to change), mainly program, configure software, perform knowledge transfers, and project manage... you might ask why I'm pursuing Microsoft, Sun, Cisco, and other "system or network administration" certifications? To keep learning, and to perform my job better. I am one of most knowlegable consultants we have when it comes to highly available networking systems (clustering, RAID systems, SAN, NAS) or deploying our software into mixed environments (Solaris vs Windows, Apache/Websphere vs IIS/ISAPI), and just basic network and device troubleshooting when onsite dealing with scanner, SCSI, or other technologies that interface with our software.

When I went to college there was really only Computer Science degrees, and although I wasn't sure when I started, I chose to study Business Administration. I was lucky enough to work my way through college with a company that recognized my dedication and potential, and enabled me to make a career out of a job... and when I knew it was coming to an end after over 14 years, I knew there would be even better opportunities.

I wish everyone best of luck in their job search, and realize that you don't have to start in tech support or as a bench tech (they are tough jobs, with not a lot of pats on the back either), and you'll be better rounded understanding general business concepts and being able to talk intelligently and respectfully with other people.

Always make sure you contribute to the company more than you cost, and that you work hard, as if you owned the company. Be humble, be honest, respect others, and never trade the "easy way out" over the "right way". I try to live by that every day.

Oh yea, and you'll have plenty of sleep when you're dead.

Take Care,
RCoop

sprkymrk

rcoop wrote:

Always make sure you contribute to the company more than you cost, and that you work hard, as if you owned the company. Be humble, be honest, respect others, and never trade the "easy way out" over the "right way". I try to live by that every day.

Excellent advice my friend.

garv221

rcoop wrote:

I wish everyone best of luck in their job search, and realize that you don't have to start in tech support or as a bench tech (they are tough jobs, with not a lot of pats on the back either), and you'll be better rounded understanding general business concepts and being about to talk intelligently and respectfully with other people.
Always make sure you contribute to the company more than you cost, and that you work hard, as if you owned the company. Be humble, be honest, respect others, and never trade the "easy way out" over the "right way". I try to live by that every day.

I completely agree. I enjoyed your post, thank you.

malcybood

caswell22 wrote:

the thing is i need a job what pays at least what im on now (£18 k/year) i have been looking for entry level IT jobs on sites like monster.co.uk and reed.co.uk but no one ever gets back to me, im hoping that with a couple more mcp's under my belt i will get a chance, im just worried if i get a job they will expect me to know everything cos im MCSA but with not much hands on experince im not goin to know as much as they expecting.

Best way to get your foot in the door is to contract. If you live in london and are prepared to work in the city and have professional certs there are loads of jobs. Contracts you'll get paid an hourly rate but they are usually temp - permanent jobs if you impress.

I live in MK and have 5 years exp in Edinburgh and MK as helpdesk and field support and helpdesk is really the best way to get your foot in the door.

The best websites in the UK for IT contracts are:

www.jobserve.co.uk
www.theitjobboard.co.uk
www.cwjobs.co.uk

There are hoardes of contract opportunities on these sites for entry level and experienced positions, with the majority of them being in London and the surrounding area.

Good luck

Malc