How many of you have had Success in IT without a Degree

the101s

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

the101s wrote:

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Also, when hiring, I look at the whole person. Any DUIs? I'm not hiring you, because I need you to drive a company vehicle. Felony? Forget it. Failed a drug test? Forget it. Bad credit history? Depends on how bad. Dress bad for the interview? No! Drugs or Pot? Hah! You wouldn't believe how many different things we test for AND if the test results are "sterilized," we won't hire you. I won't hire a cigerette smoker because they spend too much time smoking outside. And it is legal to ask that in an interview. I also ask applicants to take a technical test to make sure they aren't "fudging" on their resumes. If they are, I won't hire them.

thank love america hasnt invaded the rest of the world yet... ok, dui, felony. yeh, technical test - goes without saying, failed a drug test?! - how many people have never taken any drugs, dress bad - since when are i.t geeks good dressers. smoking!? love man id hate to live there, can you ask them how big their dick is?

That's pretty funny. I didn't mean dress bad in a fashion sense. I meant don't show up in jeans and your WOW tee shirt. Why? Because it's a CORPORATION, big business. I am sure if you work for Google or EA, jeans are fine, but for Bank of America, Sears or Haliburtin (no wait they just left), you need to look and dress like an adult. In America, folks have to smoke outside (great law by the way) and that takes TIME. Time that you aren't working. I have a ton of **** for folks to do and smoking slows them down. As for the drug test and credit checks... yeah, too high risk. And remember on the credit, we can be flexable.

So its a good thing you don't live here you poorly dressed, cigerette smoking, can't buy a new DVD player on credit, crackhead, you'd starve to death trying to find a fooking job.

Oh my god, I am so sorry, but that was funny and a lot of fun to write. I am crying I am laughing so hard. So you can pay me back and I won't say anything else.

Cheers,

Mr. Ye

i fail to see why thats funny, you must have an extremely bad case of poor-americanised-sense-of-humour

because i had an opinion on what you had to say doesnt mean ****, ok, i wouldnt want to work in the financial sector anyway regardless of pay because 95% of people are a long way up their own arse, but i dont smoke, do dress well imo, have good credit and a good job and i am yet to hit 20

crackhead? yeh so i take drugs sometimes, im not an addict and it doesnt impact my work or study at all, do you drink alcohol? are you an alcoholic?

Ye Gum Noki

Ok, Bro. I know I said some things to you, that I shouldn't have and I want to apoligize. And no, I'm not an alcoholic, but I have been known to sip on a few fine single malts, my current favorite being The MacAllen, 15 year old (or 18 when I can get it).

Any way I wish you well in all of your endeavors and I hope there's no hard feelings.

Mr. Ye

seraphus

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

seraphus wrote:

I didn't know you could legally discriminate based on smoking.
I'd like to see documentation on that...

We, Americans, are the world champions of discriminating against smokers. They are in no way a scantioned minority. If you're in the US, just ask your HR toads or see sprkymrks' comments above.

Mr. Ye

I am in the US, and actually I was asking you.
Thanks for referring me to HR though.

Ye Gum Noki

OK. Here are some links for the US and Europe:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207256,00.html

http://outofthejungle.blogspot.com/2006/11/can-employer-fire-or-refuse-to-hire.html

http://www.srnt.org/pubs/nl_02_05/policies.html

http://journalism.utexas.edu/texasjournalist/story7.html

I guess it blocked the one, but it is blog spot

helms20

I am yet to meet someone who doesn't have a college degree but make over 6 figures

My brother and sister in law collectively make well over 100K a year and neither one has a college degree. My brother in law is Director of Security and his wife is high up in IBM.

markzab

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Also, when hiring, I look at the whole person. Any DUIs? I'm not hiring you, because I need you to drive a company vehicle. Felony? Forget it. Failed a drug test? Forget it. Bad credit history? Depends on how bad. Dress bad for the interview? No! Drugs or Pot? Hah! You wouldn't believe how many different things we test for AND if the test results are "sterilized," we won't hire you. I won't hire a cigerette smoker because they spend too much time smoking outside. And it is legal to ask that in an interview. I also ask applicants to take a technical test to make sure they aren't "fudging" on their resumes. If they are, I won't hire them.

The last guy Mr. Ye hired who met all of his qualifications...



Little did he know the drug test was fudged and after being hired the monk went out back and smoked a fatty.

Ye Gum Noki

Did I mention we can't have a lot of noise in the work place? "I SAID, 'NO DRUMS!!!!'"

That was great Mark.

markzab

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Did I mention we can't have a lot of noise in the work place? "I SAID, 'NO DRUMS!!!!'"

That was great Mark.

When I saw that list I was thinking preist or monk.

Reading down a bit further I can somewhat understand where you are coming from being as how it's a banking corporation and a certain image must be upheld. I even understand what you mean by credit or felonies.

I am a mortgage broker right now and it's kind of the same in that regard. Try getting licensed with the department of banking with prior felonies. Even if you do get licensed many lenders wont allow you to sign up if you have bad credit.

On the flip-side, if you said you hired like that for google, I'd sell my stock. :P

coldbug

dude! 6 figures in US currency? is he in Japan with 6 figures in Yen?
lol..i am just kidding.
Dont forget that this is America. You dont need a college degree to make six figures in USA. Have you ever heard of A.F.C Sushi corp.? Let me tell you about the owner of it.
He doesn't even have high school diploma from America, but he is in the top 50 World Richest Men in the world. He lives in Beverly Hills, California. He is a billionare now. His father worked in the mines in Kyoto, Japan when he was a kid. He walked to school while others were on cars. i read it in Forbes long time ago, and can't find to prove it, so here is a site if u wanna read about A.F.C
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2004/12/01/8192544/
i also know some college professors with doctorate degree making much less than an IT professional who only has certs, but no college degree.
from my point of view, "Success" doesnt mean that you gotta have a nice house <5 doors garage>, nice cars, beautiful and faithful wife, etc...
i think "Success" is "achieving your goal"
Let's say for instance, you would like to get to the store in a terrible winterstorm on foot. I would call it "success" when you have stepped into the store.
It can be anything dude.

Good luck!
p.s dont forget me when you bought Lockheed Martin or Microsoft ONE DAY!

coldbug

dude! 6 figures in US currency? is he in Japan with 6 figures in Yen?
lol..i am just kidding.
Dont forget that this is America. You dont need a college degree to make six figures in USA. Have you ever heard of A.F.C Sushi corp.? Let me tell you about the owner of it.
He doesn't even have high school diploma from America, but he is in the top 50 World Richest Men in the world. He lives in Beverly Hills, California. He is a billionare now. His father worked in the mines in Kyoto, Japan when he was a kid. He walked to school while others were on cars. i read it in Forbes long time ago, and can't find to prove it, so here is a site if u wanna read about A.F.C
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2004/12/01/8192544/
i also know some college professors with doctorate degree making much less than an IT professional who only has certs, but no college degree.
from my point of view, "Success" doesnt mean that you gotta have a nice house <5 doors garage>, nice cars, beautiful and faithful wife, etc...
i think "Success" is "achieving your goal"
Let's say for instance, you would like to get to the store in a terrible winterstorm on foot. I would call it "success" when you have stepped into the store.
It can be anything dude.

Good luck!
p.s dont forget me when you bought Lockheed Martin or Microsoft ONE DAY!

coldbug

sorry! for posting twice
its almost 7am, and i was sleepy..
i must hit the bed now..

emmajoyce

Mark,
one of the better posts ive seen in last 6months

strauchr

sprkymrk wrote:

While I agree with the "who you know" answer, keep in mind that the right skills, the right motivation, and the right "people skills" will often get you the contacts you need with the right people. That's how you get a job by "who you know".

In other words, it's not always the fact that your buddy's dad owns a company, or your uncle is a VP in a company. Instead, by having a professional attitude, positive outlook, and good networking you can make contact with the right people over time and thus you just happen to have a whole book filled with the names of people considered "who you know" people.

Build bridges, don't burn them.
Be sincere, not fake. Anyone can tell the difference between a car salesman who wants to be your friend until you sign the check and a real friend.

Well, I was going to say the exact same thing.

Some people are lucky, some people create their own luck

sprkymrk

strauchr wrote:

sprkymrk wrote:

While I agree with the "who you know" answer, keep in mind that the right skills, the right motivation, and the right "people skills" will often get you the contacts you need with the right people. That's how you get a job by "who you know".

In other words, it's not always the fact that your buddy's dad owns a company, or your uncle is a VP in a company. Instead, by having a professional attitude, positive outlook, and good networking you can make contact with the right people over time and thus you just happen to have a whole book filled with the names of people considered "who you know" people.

Build bridges, don't burn them.
Be sincere, not fake. Anyone can tell the difference between a car salesman who wants to be your friend until you sign the check and a real friend.

Well, I was going to say the exact same thing.

Some people are lucky, some people create their own luck

You said it better, and with only one sentence.

garv221

emmajoyce wrote:

A 16 yr old kid steals two truck tires with his buddies. The tires are valued over 500 dollars thus making it a felony. The kid grows up and graduates college at age 25. Yep lets not hire him. Hes an extremely bad person. God forbid, he will probably come into my company and steal all our secrets and sell them to china. Give me a break. Thank god all mgrs arent like you.

typically the state seals juvenile records when the person enters adulthood or 7 years after the conviction for a minor. The majority of felony convictions are repeat offenders, have prior history and first time offenders typically plea out of a felony.


As far as Ye Gum Noki comments about the interview process.....There is a lot that can be explained by ones personal life..I wouldn't expect someone who cannot keep a drivers license, pass a drug test or balance their own check book to be a stellar, reliable employee for me when they cannot handle the day to day responsibility of running their own life.

sprkymrk

emmajoyce wrote:

A 16 yr old kid steals two truck tires with his buddies. The tires are valued over 500 dollars thus making it a felony. The kid grows up and graduates college at age 25. Yep lets not hire him. Hes an extremely bad person. God forbid, he will probably come into my company and steal all our secrets and sell them to china. Give me a break. Thank god all mgrs arent like you.

And thank God I have dozens of applicants to choose from, most of whom didn't steal truck tires as a 16 year old. I have to wonder if he got caught stealing truck tires as a 16 year old who knew stealing truck tires was wrong, what else did he do that he didn't get caught at?

Please don't blame me or Mr. Ye for not hiring him. We didn't tell him to steal the tires.

mengo17

emmajoyce wrote:

Mark,
one of the better posts ive seen in last 6months

It was really good. AHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

Of course someone can make 6 figures without a degree, this is not just in America. It is everywhere in the world. But remember, they are exceptions ! The average people without a degree do not even get hired. There are a lot of beautiful stories in this post. Are they true ? Who knows if you got the job because you know someone or you play golf with his or her brother ?
If you do not have your own business and do not work with sales, and you actually work in Corporate environment, try to make big bucks and grow in the company without a Degree and let us know what happens.
I am not saying a degree is everything, but is part of the overall picture of the person who is looking for a job. Today, even a Masters Degree is becoming something that you should have. I know, I know. There are people who do not have Masters degree and are doing very well.
Before making conclusions, try to look for statistics.
See how much someone without degrees make and than see how much someone with degree makes.

My opnion about not hiring someone that smokes is BS.
I would like to see people like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, this not to say very smart people that have education (academic and life) smokers going to an interview with you and you saying that you would not hire because they smoke. It does not sound as an intelligent decision to me. I am not saying that you are not intelligent. I accept felony, drug test (very polemic because there are 1000000 of good people who do smoke their ****, they are talented and they are not exceptions), credit score (hum! yes and no).
In my opnion (I am not a manager), the things to look are (not in necessary order):
Education (both academic and in life), experience, personality (very important), certs, desire to work and grow, languages (depends on the job). I am maybe missing something.

Bottom line, try to find a job in a big or medium corporation in IT without a degree and let me know if they are even calling you for an interview. Of course, if you have plenty of experience and certs, the degree should not stop you. But if you are young, you will not even get the interview. Look at the job posts and you will see. And for a help desk position, I would not say that a degree is mandatory.

Ye Gum Noki

Good post, Mengo!

The smoking thing, the bad credit thing, the kid who stole the tires... I have needed folks BAD and not hired people who could have done the job because history, statistics and EXPERINCE shows that when you look at the whole person, someone who is a problem now, is going to be a problem later. I know folks can change and I love a good story about how someone got better and over came adversity. But those stories really are few and far between.

I am need right now of W2K3 AD and GPO expert, right this second. I interviewed one recently who had the skills, but said something to this effect in the freaking interview, "I need a job to pay my bills while I am going to school online to finish my BA in ENGLISH so I can get out of the Tech field." What would you have done? Spent a year spinning them up on your systems? This person called our HR department, and demanded to know why they weren't hired, and absolutley could not believe the answer. Crazy.

About smoking... if I HAD To hire a smoker because I coulnt' find anyone else, and I absolutely positively urgently needed someone, I would probaly hire them. But if there are two candidates for a position and they are fairly equal, I think any prudent manager will hire the non-smoker every time because the non-smoker isn't going to be out on break smoking. And you don't even ever have to ask if someone smokes, you can smell it on them from across the table. Sad.

If you are not a felon are any kind of addict (and yes, if you come to an interview and talk about much you love WOW and Raibow six and how much you are online, you are an addict (of course if you future boss brings it up, then he/she is probably an addict too and then it would be OK to talk about it)), there are three things you need to get a tech job and I wll list them for you:

1) Skills
2) Skills
3) Skills

OK here is a fouth thing: A chance to demsonstrate those skills. So stop smoking, dress nice for your interview, do a little research on the company you're interviewing with and stay focused on the job during the interview.

Questions? And I am not talking about smoking any more.

mengo17

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Good post, Mengo!.

Thanks

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

"I need a job to pay my bills while I am going to school online to finish my BA in ENGLISH so I can get out of the Tech field." What would you have done?

100% not hire him.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

But if there are two candidates for a position and they are fairly equal, I think any prudent manager will hire the non-smoker every time because the non-smoker isn't going to be out on break smoking.

Very polemic ! Not every smoker, smokes 15 cigarrets on work time. I do smoke, and I spent 10 minutes (max) smoking and I do have to go outside (whcih I totally agree).
I try not to smoke too much because of just what you said. People will se that I smoke and will judge me. 2 cig's am and 2 cig's pm. ahahahah
Do you also consider the people which talks on the cell phone the whole day ? How can you know ? I am talking about those people (there are a lot like this) who stay on the cell phone the whole day. They do take breaks also and in my opnion, they spent more time "not working" than me.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

And you don't even ever have to ask if someone smokes, you can smell it on them from across the table. Sad.

True. I would not smoke before an interview. You would hire me without knowing that I am a smoker.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

there are three things you need to get a tech job and I wll list them for you:

1) Skills
2) Skills
3) Skills

I do not agree ! Skiils are a must, but personality, education (both academic and in life) are a must also. I would not hire someone who knows all about the tech side and is arrogant and rude. There is a lot of people like that in the corporate environment.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

So stop smoking

It is bad, I know that. I will eventually stop some day. ahahahahah

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

dress nice for your interview, do a little research on the company you're interviewing with and stay focused on the job during the interview.

Agreed !

mengo17

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Good post, Mengo!.

Thanks

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

"I need a job to pay my bills while I am going to school online to finish my BA in ENGLISH so I can get out of the Tech field." What would you have done?

100% not hire him.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

But if there are two candidates for a position and they are fairly equal, I think any prudent manager will hire the non-smoker every time because the non-smoker isn't going to be out on break smoking.

Very polemic ! Not every smoker, smokes 15 cigarrets on work time. I do smoke, and I spent 10 minutes (max) smoking and I do have to go outside (whcih I totally agree).
I try not to smoke too much because of just what you said. People will se that I smoke and will judge me. 2 cig's am and 2 cig's pm. ahahahah
Do you also consider the people which talks on the cell phone the whole day ? How can you know ? I am talking about those people (there are a lot like this) who stay on the cell phone the whole day. They do take breaks also and in my opnion, they spent more time "not working" than me.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

And you don't even ever have to ask if someone smokes, you can smell it on them from across the table. Sad.

True. I would not smoke before an interview. You would hire me without knowing that I am a smoker.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

there are three things you need to get a tech job and I wll list them for you:

1) Skills
2) Skills
3) Skills

I do not agree ! Skiils are a must, but personality, education (both academic and in life) are a must also. I would not hire someone who knows all about the tech side and is arrogant and rude. There is a lot of people like that in the corporate environment.

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

So stop smoking

It is bad, I know that. I will eventually stop some day. ahahahahah

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

dress nice for your interview, do a little research on the company you're interviewing with and stay focused on the job during the interview.

Agreed !

***We are now totally out of the topic of this post***

mengo17

Moderator,
Please delete this post and the one I did on page 2 (Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:12 pm). They are the same with the exception of the last line. Thanks and sorry for the double post. I should have edited the message.

TechJunky

I do not have a degree and make 45k a year + bonuses, company phone, paid milage, trips, etc. I was making a lot more previously but this job is much more lax and allows me to take multiple vacations a year. I dont think being successful in IT means making 6 figures. I thoroughly believe you could make 6 figures without a degree in IT, but you would have no life. I prefer to have a life and make a decent salary that pays the bills.

So being successful in IT all depends on YOUR definition.

mengo17

TechJunky wrote:

I do not have a degree and make 45k a year + bonuses, company phone, paid milage, trips, etc. I was making a lot more previously but this job is much more lax and allows me to take multiple vacations a year. I dont think being successful in IT means making 6 figures. I thoroughly believe you could make 6 figures without a degree in IT, but you would have no life. I prefer to have a life and make a decent salary that pays the bills.

So being successful in IT all depends on YOUR definition.

TRUE. And I totally agree with you on that.
Some people think that success is $, and is NOT.
I do also prefer to have a life and make a decent salary than work like crazy and make more money.
Life, Family, Woman, Soccer, Beer, my dog and Samba than work.

the101s

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Ok, Bro. I know I said some things to you, that I shouldn't have and I want to apoligize. And no, I'm not an alcoholic, but I have been known to sip on a few fine single malts, my current favorite being The MacAllen, 15 year old (or 18 when I can get it).

Any way I wish you well in all of your endeavors and I hope there's no hard feelings.

Mr. Ye

thank you mister ye, i graciously accept

i enjoy reading your posts (for the most part). very informative