Value of CCNA by itself

mattipler

How good are the chances of securing an entry level position if you solely possess the CCNA with no experience? What would be a good path to follow with such a background? I've mostly IT support / basic Server / Network Support background. Starting to panick and worry that even though I'll soon have a CCNA it may be worthless?

remyforbes777

The CCNA by itself is worthless. You are the one that brings value to the cert. If you are dedicated and knowledgable and show that you know what you have studied for, the value of your cert will become more significant. If you pass the CCNA and get in the field and your employer finds out that you don't know jack, then your CCNA means nothing. It's up to you. Study, become sharp and stay humble. Learn as much as you can. Fortunately I have a CCIE that I can call about questions regarding the CCNA topics.

mattipler

Thanks for the response mate not really what I was asking. Can you achieve a CCNA knowing "JACK"... I doubt it. But thanks for your response anyway.

Wanted to know how likely finding an entry level networking job when holding a CCNA and no commercial hands on experience was... in the UK BTW.

Thanks to anyone who responds.

sthomas

Since you have experience in Tech Support already I would recommend MCSA/MCSE and Security+. And CCNA is NOT worthless, it has a lot of value even if you have little Networking experience. With CCNA and your Tech Support experience you may be able to find a job as a Network Tech or Network Admin.

mattipler

Cheers for the response sthomas. You weren't wrong saying it's a very hard cert to achieve... I'm just about to finish sem 4 (2 years at the academy) and it's no stroll in the park... very hard work.

Yeah, no disrespect to remy but I didn't take much notice to his post. He must be having a bad day!

I was thinking earlier about taking the A+ after achieving my CCNA. Would the A+ be a cert I'd be in the position to take the exam for off the back of what I've learnt doing my CCNA or are there other topics not covered by the CCNA that are part of the A+? I also want to start a MCSE as soon as I've finished my CCNA.

I'm considering writing letters to telco's in the hope one might be able to offer me a role as a jnr network technician.

Thanks to anyone who responds.

malcybood

Matt,

Whoever said the CCNA is "worthless" without exp is talking out of a hole in his head.

I do agree you're not going to get a networking job in the UK with a CCNA and no work experience, however........If you apply for an entry level job and you can prove you know what you're talking about if they ask you CCNA related questions, it is definately an advantage with someone that doesn't have a CCNA.

Also consider an MCP in XP 70-270, A+, MCDST qualifications.

Don't think I've ever seen a "junior" networking position for someone with NO IT exp, they are EXTREMELY rare, but London is your best bet of getting one of those. These roles ususally ask for a couple of years exp in desktop/helpdesk support and a CCNA or equivelent knowledge. Only really on IT graduate recruitment programmes you can get in with no experience.

You could also maybe look into getting a 1st line support role in a NOC. Stick to applying for 1st line and junior/entry level jobs in the title. If you're any good your boss will (or shouuld) recognise this and you'll progress but when first starting out don't try and run before you can walk.

All the best

Malc

sthomas

mattipler wrote:

Cheers for the response sthomas. You weren't wrong saying it's a very hard cert to achieve... I'm just about to finish sem 4 (2 years at the academy) and it's no stroll in the park... very hard work.

Yeah, no disrespect to remy but I didn't take much notice to his post. He must be having a bad day!

I was thinking earlier about taking the A+ after achieving my CCNA. Would the A+ be a cert I'd be in the position to take the exam for off the back of what I've learnt doing my CCNA or are there other topics not covered by the CCNA that are part of the A+? I also want to start a MCSE as soon as I've finished my CCNA.

I'm considering writing letters to telco's in the hope one might be able to offer me a role as a jnr network technician.

Thanks to anyone who responds.

You should be able to get A+ without much trouble via self study. Pick up a book from your local book store or Amazon.com. Most people recommend the Mike Myers book for A+.

A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Sixth Edition

redgoblin

Sometimes what you'll find is that you have to do a job that covers networking in general sense, along with other specialities and move on to specialise in Networking.

I work for an ISP in their NOC and we do alot of hosting, networking, security related work. I've decided that I want to become a network engineer and hence why I'm studying for my CCNA. My boss is very supportive and has encouraged me to study hard and open up doors for myself. Hopefully with a CCNA I will put myself in pole position to get the network engineer job fairly soon.

Anyway my point is that a CCNA on its own doesn't mean much - I know people who were 'paper' CCNA's and couldn't find a job at all. The most important thing is having a job where you utilise your CCNA skills and progress from there. I do agree that 'junior' networking positions are rare and theres a reason for this - enterprise networking covers much more than basic routing and switching and covers firewalls, servers, and other aspects as well. Try to go for a NOC engineer type of job and you'll find yourself on the ladder more quickly

remyforbes777

Huh what? I must have missed it, I never said it was worthless without experience, all I said was that the CCNA is worthless unless you make it not worthless as well as any cert. I wasn't trying to offend anyone just merely giving my opinion. If you re read my post I say that by itself without your hard work and effort the CCNA is worthless. I know guys that work the help desk that have their MCSE and CCNA but you would never be able to tell cause they act dumb as rocks. They don't exert any effort so the CCNA as well as the MCSE ends up being worthless. Yeah you can find an entry level job with just a ccna but only person that can make the cert worthless is you.

mattipler

No offence taken remy I understand where your coming from mate.

Basically, the size of it is... I'm going to struggle to find a role that I'm going to be able to use the skills that acquired over the passed 2 years because I've no commericial experience. Who would want to let someone with a CCNA but without commericial experience near there business critical hardware when they could employ someone with experience but no CCNA. Sh1t. I wish I'd visited this site before I enrolled.

Oh well, on the bright side at least I get to put ccna after my name and get a nice cisco card! LOL!

mikej412

What do you mean "by itself?"

Are you asking if you should get other certifications to go with it, like the A+ and/or MCP, etc?

Or are you asking if a "CCNA by itself" will get you a job?

If it's the first, go for the A+ and Net+ and start on the MS path also.

If it's the 2nd, then read remyforbes777's original post slowly and carefully.

A CCNA (or any certification) will get your resume pulled from a stack for a look. But if you don't have the experience (surprise! some people lie about experience on their resumes!!) OR knowledge (surprise! some people **** to get certifications or study just enough to pass the exams and then forget everything), then yeah -- its worthless.

remyforbes777

mikej412 wrote:

What do you mean "by itself?"

Are you asking if you should get other certifications to go with it, like the A+ and/or MCP, etc?

Or are you asking if a "CCNA by itself" will get you a job?

If it's the first, go for the A+ and Net+ and start on the MS path also.

If it's the 2nd, then read remyforbes777's original post slowly and carefully.

A CCNA (or any certification) will get your resume pulled from a stack for a look. But if you don't have the experience (surprise! some people lie about experience on their resumes!!) OR knowledge (surprise! some people **** to get certifications or study just enough to pass the exams and then forget everything), then yeah -- its worthless.

Mike , thanks for the back up , thats all I was trying to convey. I don't know where me having a bad day came from. lol I was just saying what I have witnessed in the work place. Some people get the cert and they don't really know what they are doing. I have seen plenty. Like Mike said, people ****.

mattipler

Ahhh right... you've interpreted it one way Mike. Myself and everyone else who replied interpreted it the other... simple miss understanding.

Ta.

mattipler

if you don't have the experience (surprise! some people lie about experience on their resumes!!) OR knowledge (surprise! some people **** to get certifications or study just enough to pass the exams and then forget everything), then yeah -- its worthless.


You've answered the question now anyhow so cheers.

markzab

mattipler wrote:

if you don't have the experience (surprise! some people lie about experience on their resumes!!) OR knowledge (surprise! some people **** to get certifications or study just enough to pass the exams and then forget everything), then yeah -- its worthless.


You've answered the question now anyhow so cheers.

You forgot to make "OR knowledge" bold as well which was a part of his statement which makes a big difference...

Bottom line of this entire thread; If you pass a test and think you're going to be on easy street your dead wrong.

Done.

remyforbes777

Done and Doner.

mikej412

mattipler wrote:

How good are the chances of securing an entry level position if you solely possess the CCNA with no experience?

Good... since entry level jobs usually don't require experience. All you have to do is impress them with your knowledge, dazzle them with your sparkling personality, and work cheap.

The problem is finding an entry level job -- that's why most people will suggest applying for jobs that request experience. If its a CCNA level job, apply for it -- if they can't find someone good with experience who works cheap, they may give you a call.

mikej412 wrote:

if you don't have the experience (surprise! some people lie about experience on their resumes!!) OR knowledge (surprise! some people **** to get certifications or study just enough to pass the exams and then forget everything), then yeah -- its worthless.

Yeah... the OR Knowledge needs bolding too -- for entry level jobs, the knowledge is all you have to set yourself apart from all the other applicants.

DirtySouth

mattipler wrote:

How good are the chances of securing an entry level position if you solely possess the CCNA with no experience? What would be a good path to follow with such a background? I've mostly IT support / basic Server / Network Support background. Starting to panick and worry that even though I'll soon have a CCNA it may be worthless?

I think some folks made your question into a much more complex issue than it needed to be. Securing a job in networking, or any other advanced IT field, without experience is NEVER easy. However, it can certainly be done and having a CCNA (or any other Cisco cert) will help. It will NEVER be worthless as long as you know your stuff. If you can't find any good entry-level networking jobs, try to get into a larger company that has room for advancement.

mattipler

LOL Cheers for all your responses guys! I do really appreciate them. We got there in the end. I'm new to the Networking game (other than the experience and knowledge picked up with 2 years in the Cisco academy). I'm just trying to prepare myself for what I'll face once I've achieved my CCNA.

I think I may be more likely to find success going for the 'candidate that's cheap with CCNA looking for experience' approach. Perhaps writing to companies.

Don't suppose how cheap anyone could advise that I should go in terms of a salary. I know this is a difficult question to answer. It's just the time is fast approaching when I'll have to answer that very question. Don't want to price myself too high or too low. I've 7 years senior IT support, first and second line and I live in the North West of England (if that helps) and will also have a CCNA. Just a general idea would be of great help. I've tried looking online but the jobs advertised are more often than not looking for people with a couple of years experience.

Thanks to anyone who responds.

Cheers lads.

mrkorean

You said you have 7 years senior IT support, first and second line experience. With a CCNA, that is more than enough for a network analyst/Level 1 network support role.

iproute

mattipler wrote:

I think I may be more likely to find success going for the 'candidate that's cheap with CCNA looking for experience' approach. Perhaps writing to companies.

Quite frankly friend, that's the only way to get into the business, as far as I've seen. That's how I got into the business, that's how my friends from college got into the business. Businesses just aren't willing to bring someone in w/o experience. Now, if you are brought in to do a lesser task making lesser cash then shine like a supernova and impress everyone around you, you're on the path to a fruitful career. On your cover letter, be sure to let them know that your fresh out of training and eager to learn. This is a tactful way of letting them know that you'll work on the cheap, as long as you can continue to refine your art.

Just my 2cents. Good luck. And remember that it's not as bad as it seems; it's not as tough everyone says it is. Endurance is really the key; my boss once told me that I needed to develop a thick skin to work in this area, some of the best damned advice I've ever been given.

Edit: Typo!

Darthn3ss

Heh, i'm with the above poster. When i get my first job in the industry i'll be happy with 15k a year while i gain experience and learn more.

markzab

Darthn3ss wrote:

Heh, i'm with the above poster. When i get my first job in the industry i'll be happy with 15k a year while i gain experience and learn more.

Well that's WAY too low considering you're talking about $7.50 per hour on a 40 hour week. Heck, I think they're even in the process of raising minimum wage above even that. If you're looking for 15k/yr McDonalds is hiring...hey...free big macs.

mattipler

I'm currently earning just shy of £18k a year for my senior IT support role... peanuts I know... but I carry out a role I'm not credited for. Plus, when things are quiet a blind eye is turned to me doing some studying... that's why I'm still with the company I work for. If £15,000 is too low... what should I aim for?

Thanks to anyone who responds.

malcybood

Do you mean what should you aim for when trying to get a networking role in a NOC or something?

I'd say £18 - 22k is about the entry level salary for a 1st line NOC person in and around Manchester/Yorkshire/Leeds etc.

If you're on 18k now then you want to match 18k to move on. Be patient and it'ss come up[ when you least expect it

What sort of stuff do you do in your current role?

For general IT support 23k is probably the max you'll get at the top end of a DS role. A bit of server work thrown in approx 25 - 27k and a few years server hands on probably 26 - 35k depending on company and your experience

mattipler

18 - 22k, no probs. That's around what I was expecting. Cheers Malc much appreciated mate.

markzab

I'm sorry guys. I didn't realise you were talking about UK jobs.