Doing CCNP in class vs. self-study

Crunchyhippo

I completed my CCNA in a local Cisco Networking Academy here, and it went ok. Classes alone didn't prepare me to pass the CCNA, however, as I found out the hard way (three tries to pass), but it helped. The one drawback is that the teacher(s) have to go at a set rate in order for all 25-30 students to keep up, and classes only meet once or twice a week. Now that I have the foundation down, I've been kicking around the idea of completing CCNP, but through self-study. I would have to do quite a bit of rack-rental time online without the $$$ for the actual equipment, but the advantage is that I can go at my own pace and not have to worry about passing next week's test/mid-term/final. And I know it can be done and I wouldn't be on a timetable, which is really nice.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

networker050184

It is definatley possible with self study which you seem to already know. Its always good to have someone who knows there stuff to explain things to you. Classes also keep you in the grove of things, but when you do self study you can just blow it off for the day. I'm not saying self study is bad, that is what I'm doing, but I think it is optimal to have both if possible.

keenon

both are great options.. self study is great once you figure out your own method. class room is good also but very much geared on time and materials tobe covered. the best option is to do self study then taking a class to add to the knowledge what may have gotten lost in the wash

Crunchyhippo

You guys aren't helping any with this, y'know.

My friend who went through the CCNA with me in school and who is now in the CCNP classes said he's stressing big time right now, trying to work FT and do well in the classes. It's obviously more complex, and he said he's hoping he just passes. So I'm thinking to myself that if this can be done on my own, why put myself through this, even with whatever advantages might exist in structured classes? Plus the fact that school is 18 mi. from where I live, one-way. Considering how much lab time I'll be doing, I'll be gone from home and family quite a bit. At least if I'm doing online simulations, my wife and kids will be around.

boyles23

It really depends on what type of personality and abilities you have. Can you study the technical material at home and learn it well enough to pass? Do you have the money to purchase the equipment you need(vs. the software option or rack rental)? It is really based on the individual, some people can't grasp the material on there own and need the guidance of a professor.

Regards,

keenon

Crunchyhippo wrote:

You guys aren't helping any with this, y'know.

My friend who went through the CCNA with me in school and who is now in the CCNP classes said he's stressing big time right now, trying to work FT and do well in the classes. It's obviously more complex, and he said he's hoping he just passes. So I'm thinking to myself that if this can be done on my own, why put myself through this, even with whatever advantages might exist in structured classes? Plus the fact that school is 18 mi. from where I live, one-way. Considering how much lab time I'll be doing, I'll be gone from home and family quite a bit. At least if I'm doing online simulations, my wife and kids will be around.

i know all too well.. i started getting up at 5am to study as it was the only time that everyone else was sleep. i have been doing it now for nearly 2 years.. i hope to get my 4 hour study sessions back on the weekends.. you just have to steal the time somewhere i stole it from sleep other than from the family.. you have to pay on your own terms or pay on the default terms by not choosing

Netstudent

I cut time from weekends and nights and slow times at work to study. The days I have school, I get home at 10PM and kid is asleep already anyways so I go straight to the rack IF i didn't already get rack time at school. Days I don't have school, I give the ole lady and kid several hours, and I'm in the books and don't bother me. Weekends I try to get 4 or 5 hours. Lately school has been leaking over into my cisco time because I'm just loaded down. Just find some time to shave off of other things.


Do you think you could have gotten your CCNA without the Academy? try to judge how much the Academy actually helped you. IF you feel you could have gotten the CCNA no problem on your own, then thats a pretty good indication that you have the aptitude for self-study.

mikej412

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Classes alone didn't prepare me to pass the CCNA, however, as I found out the hard way (three tries to pass), but it helped.

I took my CCNA 4 final on a Tuesday and got my CCNA on Friday. After that (and my 20 years IT experience) I figured I could do the rest cheaper and faster by self-study.

Are you trying to get the CCNP faster than the year it might take during the Academy? Or do you want to stretch it out over a longer time?

Without a scheduled class and the feedback from the quizzes and exams, do you think you'll get the reading done (and understand it) and get in enough hands-on practice to pass the exams? Do you have the motivation and dedication (and spare neurons) to do it self-study?

Crunchyhippo

mikej412 wrote:

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Classes alone didn't prepare me to pass the CCNA, however, as I found out the hard way (three tries to pass), but it helped.

I took my CCNA 4 final on a Tuesday and got my CCNA on Friday. After that (and my 20 years IT experience) I figured I could do the rest cheaper and faster by self-study.

The 20 years experience, obviously, helped you immeasurably in your self-study pursuit. I know I have a bachelors and now my CCNA, and so far I might as well be using my diplomas/certificates to make paper airplanes for all the good they're doing me, since I don't have a networking background. I had thought that the hiring pendulum had possibly swung from we-only-want-experience to perhaps "oh, you have certification?", but I guess that time hasn't arrived yet. Every employer I've seen is still asking for previous networking/related experience, with certs as an additional "plus" or required plus experience. My advice for those wanting to enter the networking field would be to find an employer who is already involved in networking and try and get on with them doing anything; then once you're on, you can prove yourself to them or get an in-house contact and then go after a cert(s). Sad to say, you'll have a long wait if you have certs, but no experience.

networker050184

I had thought that the hiring pendulum had possibly swung from we-only-want-experience to perhaps "oh, you have certification?", but I guess that time hasn't arrived yet.

This time was here, but has passed. Too many people with certs and no experience couldn't cut the mustard. Now employers mainly look for experience. I try to tell people all the time that certifications are not going to get them a job, but they won't listen. They think "if I get my CCNA I will be making $50k" thats just not the case.

Crunchyhippo

networker050184 wrote:

I had thought that the hiring pendulum had possibly swung from we-only-want-experience to perhaps "oh, you have certification?", but I guess that time hasn't arrived yet.

This time was here, but has passed. Too many people with certs and no experience couldn't cut the mustard. Now employers mainly look for experience. I try to tell people all the time that certifications are not going to get them a job, but they won't listen. They think "if I get my CCNA I will be making $50k" thats just not the case.

True. Unless you already have a job either doing networking or working for a company which does networking and where they might give you a chance, I would consider it a waste of time getting a CCNA - or any other certification.

networker050184

I wouldn't go as far as to tell them not to work on certifications, but to just keep their goals realistic. Don't think you are going to get a network engineer position just because you passed your CCNA, but having an A+ or an MCP can help you getting an entry level help desk position.

Crunchyhippo

networker050184 wrote:

I wouldn't go as far as to tell them not to work on certifications, but to just keep their goals realistic. Don't think you are going to get a network engineer position just because you passed your CCNA, but having an A+ or an MCP can help you getting an entry level help desk position.

Let me quote from some others who also have certifications:

I live in the mid-Atlanic area, and have had my CCNA and will soon have my CCNP certifications with one year of solid WAN experience. I have been out of work for nearly two years. I see none of this meaning anything positive to me.

Hi. It is nice to know that cisco certs. are in demand in 2004.But having both a ccna and a ccnp and still unable to find a job for more than a year, it is very frustrating to read that many more new candidates will be taking up these certifications only to find afterwards that these certifications only help you if you already have a job, not necessarily to land you in a job.

I have been in IT for 15 years, 5 years Cisco experience. Never had a certification and wasn't interested. Boss says it's important so I go get my CCNA. I'm still trying to figure out what it got me. I am the only support for a hospital with Cisco text book infrastructure including VPN, VoIP, Wireless, etc. Not looking for a new job but in the event I need to job hunt...I am betting my experience, great reputation, and industry contacts get me further than initials behind my name.

I try not be negative, but I do try to be realistic, and I agree with the one poster - experience is King; certification is the cupbearer.

networker050184

Well say I have three years experience and a CCNP and you have three years experience and a no certifications. Who do you think will get the call? There are probably a few other factors in there like resume and type of experience, but do you get where I'm going? Certifications compliment your experience and set you apart from others who do not have them. They are in no way a meal ticket to the big bucks. People get so dissapointed because they try to substitute their certifications for experience.

JohnDouglas

I can't imagine what use a CCNA would be really in a day to day job. But it does show willingness to learn and employers value that. CCNA's got me nothing really other than now I can go on and do CCNP. When I look for jobs asking for CCNA they're all at half the salary I'm on now. Just shows how important it is to get more qualifications and then hopefully a transfer within the company to a team where I can use that textbook knowledge.

Still, for young guys just looking to move jobs I reckon it shows you're willing to put some effort in and study in your own time. Employers are impressed by that. Just might take some time to get that lucky break to an entry level job. Impress people etc, move teams, impress some more people. I arrived in telecoms with no experience and no qualifications (ah the 90s, that was great). Didn't no what a circuit was ffs. I've come a long way.

networker050184

I can't imagine what use a CCNA would be really in a day to day job.

The CCNA lays the foundation for everything you will learn. If you work in a networking enviroment you will use stuff from the CCNA every day. Anything from checking link status to placing a switchport into a VLAN. The CCNA is not useless and the topics learned in it may be simple but they are all very vital in day to day operations of a network. The topics learned in the higher certifications are used much less often than those learned in the CCNA in a day to day up keep of a network.

EdTheLad

I started my CCNA a couple of years ago, no classes just self study.I found it hard going in the beginning as the ccna material was dry and incomplete,in hindsight i should have read ccnp books too.After passing ccna i went straight for ccnp, i was surprised at how much i didnt know about routing and switching, for ccnp i used ccie books as the ccnp books might get you the exam and thats it.Half way throught the ccnp i switched to ccip as my end goal was ccie and the ccip material was more relavent than the ccnp.Cant remember which i finished first, i'm thinking it was ccnp as i recall leaving mpls till last.
So i completed all these certs by self study and using this forum to ask questions about subjects i was unsure of.Also this forum helped me stay motivated as its nice having a community who understood my pain.
The reason i started learning cisco in the first place was to aid in my job hunting, as i was planning on emigrating to Austrailia.Anyway like others here, i bought a lab etc etc, now the process is much simplier with the introduction of dynamips, but thats a different story.
So, i arrived in Austrailia last Feburary with my ccnp and ccip thinking the world is my oyster, call a few agencies and setup some meetings.The outcome of day one was, i wouldnt be able to get a job working on Cisco kit due to no real world cisco experience.Bloody braindumpers!!The other problem was that i had 7 years networking experience so i was over qualified for any entry level positions.I went around and around in circles with agents for the next two months, kind of regreting this whole Cisco fasade.Anyway a ray of light shone down on my laptop one morning when i was in the garden, the ray was focused on a networking postion involving cisco switches, i decided to make one last call.Had a chat with the agent and told them my story, the agent was impressed with my efforts and decided pass my resume to the company, which company you may ask... Cisco, did afew technical interviews and now im working for Cisco.
So self study can and will pay off, but be careful what you wish for, i't Saturday 20:00, guess where i am? Working, guess what time i finished work at yesterday 23:30, the day before 24:00, tonight? anyway i'm working my ass off but im loving it.Now gotta get back to my 7600s, hope i havent bored you.

JohnDouglas

networker050184 wrote:

I can't imagine what use a CCNA would be really in a day to day job.

The CCNA lays the foundation for everything you will learn. If you work in a networking enviroment you will use stuff from the CCNA every day. Anything from checking link status to placing a switchport into a VLAN. The CCNA is not useless and the topics learned in it may be simple but they are all very vital in day to day operations of a network. The topics learned in the higher certifications are used much less often than those learned in the CCNA in a day to day up keep of a network.

Yes, on reflection that's right. I learned all that stuff on the job so didn't really take note of it on the course as it's second nature to me now.

geezer

Edthelad - glad it worked out for you apart from the looong days that is! Still, you could be working nights like me

What I find hard about self-study personally is fitting it in around family commitments and working nights don't help much too.

Netstudent

EdTheLad wrote:

I started my CCNA a couple of years ago, no classes just self study.I found it hard going in the beginning as the ccna material was dry and incomplete,in hindsight i should have read ccnp books too.After passing ccna i went straight for ccnp, i was surprised at how much i didnt know about routing and switching, for ccnp i used ccie books as the ccnp books might get you the exam and thats it.Half way throught the ccnp i switched to ccip as my end goal was ccie and the ccip material was more relavent than the ccnp.Cant remember which i finished first, i'm thinking it was ccnp as i recall leaving mpls till last.
So i completed all these certs by self study and using this forum to ask questions about subjects i was unsure of.Also this forum helped me stay motivated as its nice having a community who understood my pain.
The reason i started learning cisco in the first place was to aid in my job hunting, as i was planning on emigrating to Austrailia.Anyway like others here, i bought a lab etc etc, now the process is much simplier with the introduction of dynamips, but thats a different story.
So, i arrived in Austrailia last Feburary with my ccnp and ccip thinking the world is my oyster, call a few agencies and setup some meetings.The outcome of day one was, i wouldnt be able to get a job working on Cisco kit due to no real world cisco experience.Bloody braindumpers!!The other problem was that i had 7 years networking experience so i was over qualified for any entry level positions.I went around and around in circles with agents for the next two months, kind of regreting this whole Cisco fasade.Anyway a ray of light shone down on my laptop one morning when i was in the garden, the ray was focused on a networking postion involving cisco switches, i decided to make one last call.Had a chat with the agent and told them my story, the agent was impressed with my efforts and decided pass my resume to the company, which company you may ask... Cisco, did afew technical interviews and now im working for Cisco.
So self study can and will pay off, but be careful what you wish for, i't Saturday 20:00, guess where i am? Working, guess what time i finished work at yesterday 23:30, the day before 24:00, tonight? anyway i'm working my ass off but im loving it.Now gotta get back to my 7600s, hope i havent bored you.

HA! thats awesome man! Hard work always pays off. Whether the payoff is directly or indirectly related to that hard work, it will happen.