Dynamips illegal?

bowlersp

http://certcities.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?tid=5603&pn=1

they are saying that using dynamips is illegal, per cisco. sounds to me that the boson guys and cisco are just mad because they aren't making any money on it!! but, honestly there is no way to determine if someone is running dynamips with out violating their privacy, since dynamips is not "run" over the internet, just the end user workstation. and i think cisco has better things to do than to TRY to prosecute people of this.

GT-Rob

Thats because, according to cisco, it IS illegal. They state that it can only be run on a cisco device.


Obviously you are not going to get caught running it in your lab. I'm not going to get caught listening to my music I downloaded on my MP3 player, it doesn't make it legal.

EdTheLad

Thats funny, poor old boson are feeling the pinch,maybe if they would have developed a decent simulator application dynamips would never have been developed.

Ahriakin

I'm really surprised anyone thought it wasn't illegal. It's their software, developed for their boxes and used on an unlicensed platform. Still there's a big gap between what they can state they don't allow and what they will pursue. It seems like a "don't ask don't tell" situation for individual users.

rakem

and plus a lot of people obtain the IOS' illegally so that makes it even worse

bowlersp

ok, somebody changed the subject title. i dont think that is right, to manipulate other peoples words and change them to something they did not say. even if it is true that is beside the point. i just lost respect for that person.

mikej412

Illegal? Congress and the President still haven't bailed out Social Security -- when did they find time to pass a law for Cisco that makes using the IOS ILLEGAL?

If you download an IOS you can be busted for copyright violations -- that's illegal.

If you use the IOS on non-Cisco hardware you are Violating the Software License -- and Cisco has options in a CIVIL Court. And its up to Cisco to enforce their license as they see fit.

After the "loaded question" to make their arguement about Using IOS on Dynamips ILLEGAL
http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/22447

THE OFFICIAL RESPONSE FROM CISCO

As a matter of policy, Cisco will not comment on a specific customer or organization's use of Cisco software.

That said, it is accurate that according to Cisco’s standard software licensing terms, users may only run Cisco software on the Cisco hardware for which the user pays the appropriate fees.

We have also heard from customers that emulation/simulation tools are of value to them and we are exploring different ways on how to continue to help customers best design and test network configurations prior to deployment of their networks.

I'm surprised they aren't also saying Using IOS on eBay Bought Equipment ILLEGAL.

And I've looked for the ILLEGAL thread over on 7200emu.hacki.at and haven't found one. Chris (Dynamips) and Greg (Dynagen) are pretty clear they don't provide IOS images.

Since InternetworkExpert, NMC, and IEMentor either have Dynamips topologies or PRODUCTS that use Dynamips -- I'm sure Cisco could figure out to target them if they wanted to stop Dynamips.

I'm going to go with the FEAR AND LOATHING theory on that post -- but if you want to be 100% LEGAL in your studies, use the Boson Simulator (shouldn't violate Cisco Copyright since they don't actually match the IOS or work like the IOS thanks to the bugs), rent rack time from a company with licensed routers and switches, buy your own equipment NEW (you get an IOS image with the purchase you can use, just not update/upgrade without a SmartNet Contract), or use a properly licensed Lab at School or Work.

Personally, I think Cisco should throw money at the University, Chris, and Greg and make Dynamips available as a learning/simulation tool.

EdTheLad

mikej412 wrote:

Personally, I think Cisco should throw money at the University, Chris, and Greg and make Dynamips available as a learning/simulation tool.

Cisco already have their own internal emulation tool which works better than dynamips.

netteaser

Does Cisco Emulation tool emulate Cisco Switches?

mysql1988

if it wasn't for dynamips I wouldn't have been a CCNP today

nice343

cisco doesn't really lose if you look at it if dynamips becomes popular, because Once you have aquired the knowlege, you have to PAY in order to sit for any cisco exams. So I don't think cisco will sweat over this . Because even though dynamips is free, CISCO EXAMS ARE NOT

Darthn3ss

EdTheLad wrote:

mikej412 wrote:

Personally, I think Cisco should throw money at the University, Chris, and Greg and make Dynamips available as a learning/simulation tool.

Cisco already have their own internal emulation tool which works better than dynamips.

1,000,000 internets to whoever leaks that... :P

virusc

Is it possible that cisco does not have a good VM / emulation product because they feel that the sales generated for testing/labs is to substantial ?

companies do purchase large amount of test gear for design and developement. On the other hand arn't they losing ground to others due to the steep learning curve and cost of practice equipment?

nice343

if dynamips is illegal then is VMware for Microsoft windows and other registured linux illegal?

this makes no sense

Ahriakin

nice343 wrote:

if dynamips is illegal then is VMware for Microsoft windows and other registured linux illegal?

this makes no sense

If you're not licensed for the copies of those OS's you are in violation of copyright. If you are licensed then it's fine, but not relevant to the argument as Cisco never license their IOS/FOS for emulators.

Pash

Ahriakin wrote:

nice343 wrote:

if dynamips is illegal then is VMware for Microsoft windows and other registured linux illegal?

this makes no sense

If you're not licensed for the copies of those OS's you are in violation of copyright. If you are licensed then it's fine, but not relevant to the argument as Cisco never license their IOS/FOS for emulators.

Exactly, VMware makes it very clear you need licensed software to install each time you build a machine.

My view is simple, if Cisco expect people to get the higher end certificates without being lucky enough to have access AND time to practice at work.....then they are very much going about this the wrong way and I am slowly losing respect for them because of it.

mikej412

Pash wrote:

My view is simple, if Cisco expect people to get the higher end certificates without being lucky enough to have access AND time to practice at work.....then they are very much going about this the wrong way and I am slowly losing respect for them because of it.

What's Cisco doing?

I'd like to see Cisco make low cost or no cost IOS downloads and "study licenses" available, but it's their decision.

I haven't seen or heard of Cisco doing anything to hinder people from learning and becoming Cisco Certified.

rebelrat

Of course Cisco has to state that the use of the IOS is illegal outside of a Cisco chassis. I doubt on the other hand that they are too concerned about the use of their IOS in lab and virtual environments that are not in production and used for business purposes. Cisco has a vested interest in trained professionals that can manage their equipment - i.e. Cisco Academy.

If Boson would develop a decent product at a reasonable price for CCNP and up - analog the Cisco Network Simulator - they would not be crying so bad right now. Same goes for the rack rental business. Personally I have been lucky and had access to real hardware for many years at work. Lately I have bought some hardware for my own lab. Access to real hardware is definetely a great advantage.

There are many discussion threads on Dynamips on Cisco's discussion forum - they obviously know it is out there and helps to produce more proficient IT workers that can work with their equipment.

Even Microsoft issues trial versions of their operating systems so users can study them - most commercial Linux distros have free versions. I am sure Cisco knows that without sufficent IT staff to support their devices their future growth will be negatively impacted.