The State of the IT Field (please read)

Ten9t6

spfdz wrote:

This thread is awesome. Although I don't look down on the IT field. I think it will definnitally help those who do or are debating if they made the right decision stepping into the field.

Just remember, there are people out there who do get paid VERY WELL. Don't be mediocre. If you really want that good paying job. Work hard, try hard, and it will all pay off.

That's what drives me. I tell myself almost everyday, and the fact that I want it so bad is what makes me succeed in the things I'm doing now.

The "good" jobs are out there.....stay positive...stay focused....and don't listen to the haters...Everything will work out. We all had to start somewhere.

roninmagik1

Hi everyone, this is a great thread, one thing that I don't think people have touched on in this thread is "connections". I've been working in the IT dept for a small company for about 5 years now, and the funny thing is that every person that's been hired for the IT dept has been unqualified, and the only reason they got the job is knowing someone. I'm the only one that really loves computers, everyone else in the dept is just there for money and a stable job. Which has it's perks, hehe, i didn't have to fight anyone for that beta copy of Longhorn when it came through technet!!! muaahhahahah!!!! But seriously, if you can get in the industry, even if it's a low level position, and start creating connections with people, things happen for you, whether you're qualified or unqualified!!!

qsub

Using braindump certs like A+ is common sure just so someone can get a job at best buy as a pc seller. But pretend someone gets a CCNA/CCNP cert using a braindump. If they happen to do get hired by a company due to those certs, what use is it when they face a problem that requires troubleshooting subnets ? They would just mess up and get fired.

sharpescalade

****....its actually very simple

if you break down everything...BREAK IT DOWN...

when you moved into your house it was chaos..

when you built your education it was chaos..

...when we built during the late 80's until sept 11th....the whole latest and greatest IT infrastructure...now ..since its build and just being maintained...there isnt a huge need..

wanna hear something **** up...multi-billion dollar casinos and hotels here in vegas have a IT staff of like 5-9 people....its ****...getting into that is near impossible since all IT jobs here in Vegas people get in b.c. they know someone in the casino or its hired internally....so talk about getting a BUM rap being an IT dude....

Alien

Excelent thread i must admit. I feel more energized to continue with my job search. At the moment i'm doing helpdesk and i feel like plenty of my talent is going to waste since i'm only using about 20% of the skills and knowledge that i've acquired.

Alien

The reality is that there really are no jobs out there. I.T is no longer a shortcut to riches. Its become some sort of cult for I.T lovers, who love I.T for the sake of it. There are very misleading adverts out there like the one with some guy sitting on top of a ferrari because he got an MCSE . At the moment chances of landing a good job in I.T is almost like winning a lotto. Unfortunately there isn't much i can offer the jobless. You are simply bound to your fate untill the Almighty touches the heart of some dude up at the HR. So keep prayin.

Jammywanks

sharpescalade wrote:

wanna hear something **** up...multi-billion dollar casinos and hotels here in vegas have a IT staff of like 5-9 people....its ****...getting into that is near impossible since all IT jobs here in Vegas people get in b.c. they know someone in the casino or its hired internally....so talk about getting a BUM rap being an IT dude....

Yeah, and you know whats funny, just this past summer, I was at Vegas in the Tropicana... watching TV stations one night, and they were doing some TV scheduling maintenence... what did I see? WINDOWS 3.1 Oh my f--cking god.

If I hadn't caught that on that day, I probably would have taken your statement as a give or take, but I think I have confirmed it myself.

deimos517

Getting an IT job also seems to be highly dependent on your geographical area. Here in Dallas/Ft. Worth there are a ton of IT jobs, although it seems more and more they are temporary or contract positions.

Hell, if you really can't find a job, start your own consulting business and do it better than anyone else does.

jpeezy55

I don't know if this is the right place, but it seems like it:

Is there any particular person or department to send a resume to? I know it would most likely be "Human Resources", but I guess if you don't know who is in charge, then how should a cover letter be addressed? I've read you should avoid the "Dear Sir or Madam" opener also...

I always have trouble deciding what to write in a cover letter anyway without it being repeated when they read the actual resume...

Thanks for any help, and Webmaster, if this is in the wrong place, please do what you need to...

12thlevelwarrior

I like to use

Dear Hiring Manager,

endersftd

I just want to tell a quick story about my entrance into the IT field.

I've always done computer work on the side - simple computer fixes or even rebuilding fried PCs, so I had somewhere to start. During this time, I went to college and tried to get into C.S. I got really sick of just coding all the time (which I half-expected), so I switched from the engineering college to the business college to major in DIS, which is a lot different from CS, IMO. There's a crap-ton more emphasis on the business side of IT, more statistics, but still some basic programming fundamentals (CS = C++, DIS = VB, for example). This didn't teach me too much about computers and networking, aside from some overlaps into A+ and Net+, but it was a nice stepping stone. Plus, having a 4-year degree instead of a 2-year technical college degree to start out with says something different about you. A benefit from the DIS degree is it emphasises the business end of things, which starts to put you in the mindset of an administrator, rather than a technician.

I currently work as an IT "manager" (I use manager loosely, because I manage technology, not people) for a health department, which is technically a governmental organization. However, the health department has lots of flexibility to do what they feel needs to be done instead of the government telling them. Therefore, as mentioned above, they request someone who is qualified to do aaaaalllll this stuff for a less-than-impressive salary. One of the things that they wanted was someone with experience with "servers." Now I know some things, but I honestly have not been in a situation where I work with real servers directly. But I apply anyway. Turns out that they didn't even know what they were going to use a server for anyway - they just thought they needed one (they wanted to be able to run their own e-mail, which we can't do since we're part of the state network). So you never really know. Nonetheless, I do a crazy variety of IT-related tasks for very little pay (I think), but I get health insurance and tuition assistance, so I'm comfortable for now. This is my first real job out of college and I'm making about $23k a year (post-tax).

I'm using this time to investigate and earn some more certifications (I've got A+ and Net+ already). However if you can't walk-the-walk, certifications are nothing. Certifications just show that you are competant in a particular field (assuming your potential employer knows what that field means). What's more important is your ability to come up with clever, cost saving solutions to problems. For example, the health department here operates on a shoe-string budget, and the only time we really get to spend money on computers is if there a governmental program, like WIC, that is willing to fund money so the WIC employees can do their job better. Because of this, we have a lot of 6-year-old computers that still need to be used because there just isn't any easy way to get new ones. This leads to some pretty interesting tricks to keeping things working. I'm also faced with the interesting scenario of deciding if a new technology is something that we should try to get. As I said, my employer wanted to see about getting a server. I pretty much asked "What do you want a server for?" Often I'll tell them that the benefits of having new technology X (such as a server) are less than the benefits of replacing and upgrading Y technology (such as our workstations). I think they really like this because it shows I'm not just gung-ho about getting the newest technology, but that I take into consideration the benefits and costs for the organization as a whole. This, above all else, is important. If you can find a way to show your care for the organization and the people in it, you either get your foot in the door, or secure yourself in the job you have.

It also is a nice net when you inevitably have a plan that doesn't work as expected. If you show that you were generally concerned for the well-being of the organization, the things that don't always work as planned aren't such a mark against you.

/end ramble

Jammywanks

I'm talking to a friend of mine and he said "word on the street" is that Cisco isn't what it all used to be. I'm sure nothing lasts forever... but what do you guys say about the general buzz around Cisco? Will CCNA/CCNP/CCIE's still be in high demand like in the past 5 years or so? What about other competition making cheaper products that do just as good? Whats everyone's overall say about the Cisco networking world as a whole, now and in the future?

Alien

Its much tougher for the fakes to braindump their way thru Cisco exams and even when they do, they wouldn't know **** about how to perform Cisco stuff

I can't even try to imagine someone "dumping" past CCIE

sprkymrk

Jammywanks wrote:

I'm talking to a friend of mine and he said "word on the street" is that Cisco isn't what it all used to be. I'm sure nothing lasts forever... but what do you guys say about the general buzz around Cisco? Will CCNA/CCNP/CCIE's still be in high demand like in the past 5 years or so? What about other competition making cheaper products that do just as good? Whats everyone's overall say about the Cisco networking world as a whole, now and in the future?

Sure there is (and to some degree always has been) competition to Cisco products, and Cisco will try to adjust to the competition in order to stay on top. Presently and in the coming few years, if someone can show me certs from these other vendors that compete with Cisco then I'll tell you to go for it. Search monster.com and other IT related job boards and try to find networking jobs that ask for certs from 3Com or Extreme vs. those that want Cisco. I think that will answer your question better than I can.

babbage

Thanks for the original post here. (I've not read very far down the discussion yet). I'm new to the industry, and am taking MCSA courses at a training centre, so it's good to know that this counts as experience. And I'll certainly take the advice to spread the knowledge of me as widely as possible - even to applying for jobs whose experience and qualification requirements are higher than what I can provide. It can't do any harm!

kadshah

I've been working as a independent computer technician since 2000.
I've had my ups and downs over the 7 years working on my own, luckly
my night gig (not IT related) has served as a finacial safety net during this period.
I've decided to give up my IT solo career and get a "real" job
so I just started creating my resume. My concern is will any company
take my 7 years of experience serioulsy since i've been working for myself?
Also, I'm not exactly a young stud like most of you but then again i'm not ancient.
I'm wondering if this will be a problem as well when I apply for an IT position.
Anyone in the same boat?

plettner

I agree with the flood of "blow-ins". I know brick layers who got an MCSE through a two-week wonder course and jumped onboard the IT bandwagon.

I know a lady who worked in Khazakstan in their symphony orhcestra and she is now a DBA after doing a "wonder-course" too. She wouldn't know what a PCI card is or what boot.ini does.

There was a former debt-collector who got an MCSE also after a course and some practical experience through the computer shop where I worked.

It seems before 2000 every man and his dog ended up jumping onto the IT industry which saturated the market. What's sad is I've had a passion for IT my whole life. A lot of these people don't - they're here purely for the money. I think you need to be passionate about IT. You need to be able to run your own mail and e-mail server at home. You need to be able record "Prison Break" through your Media Centre PC which you rigged up yourself. You need be able to have an intellignet Mac vs Windows vs Linux discussion with a fellow IT tech.

A lot of people on this forum will disagree with me but that's my humble opinion.

Fingon

I could help with the Solaris clustering gig were I not fulltime on contract network design these days. I have the t-shirt and years sounded by Sun boxes.

I would venture they should offer much more than 75K for someone decent.

I agree with your sentiments. Stick at your certs and get as much exposure as you can to technologies and projects. A wide range of skills and specialities is key.

Keep learning!

As for the newbies, well stick at it.

All those nights and weekends with books and gear learning and you can make over 100K. Works for me

Kaminsky

Alien wrote:

The reality is that there really are no jobs out there. I.T is no longer a shortcut to riches. Its become some sort of cult for I.T lovers, who love I.T for the sake of it.

Seriously disagree. What is actually happening is IT is starting to grow up and get serious. People are starting to put a value on the amount of lost productivity for a PC being out of action for a day while they wait for a pc support guy to come fix it. A webserver that is not beefy enough or an internal network that is just not up to scratch anymore can have a very serious impact on a company's profits enough to be catagorised as a critical risk to the organisation.

I am another who started very early on before most folks knew what a computer was. Only the really big companies had terminals and certainly not what we now call PCs. Just dumb terminals running off a really really expensive mainframe. I am certainly not in this cult of IT lovers you elude to. I am just simply really bad at anything else and very good at this. Believe me, I tried lots of things before I moved from a hobby to an occupation. I absolutely know that I am a really awfull mechanic, shop assistant, gardener, etc, etc.

With IT becoming more central in the delivery of a company's business, they are starting to realise at board level that they can't just hire the co-workers nephew as he knows a bit about computers anymore. You needed dedicated professionals, a term which has only recently started being bandied around the IT professions. Imagine on the stock exchange, some little oik sitting in front of a traders desk, scratching his head whilst the trader behind him is pulling his hair out as he knows he is losing millions whilst some inexperienced wannabe techie is trying to figure out why it isn't working. You need dedicated professionals in IT now and certification is just one way of making sure you get the right person with the right level of knowledge.

Certification and experienced professionals are what IT is all about now. It's like the difference between a paramedic and a good first aider.

The amount of time I have been actively employed in IT support I have never certified in anything for one reason or another. Lazyness being one of those but in the last few years it has become imperative that I do certify my experience even though, except for in depth networking, I can do all the other support roles standing on my head and way better than my more junior contemperaries. However, without the certification, there are knowledge gaps and there is also no proof that I have modern up to date knowledge.

Sure it's harder to get started in the business now as you have to show a higher level of knowledge to be able to support the more knowledgable user base. It's definately worth persuing though if you are interested in Support for the buzz it gives you getting a dead system up and running whilst all the user base is scratching their heads wondering how on earth they are going to function if the network doesn't come back up or the emial doesn't start working soon. If it's just money that drives you and you would rather just be an IT literate user then it's probably best you don't come into the profession. There are downsides in IT which would be really annoying.

However, keep certificating whilst your working and yes you will be financially rewarded. I work around the healthcare environment and just salary alone, the average IT techie is earning the equivelent of a head of department on the clinical side. I recently saw a job posting for a cardiac service senior manager job going for a lot less than I am earning and they save peoples lives. I certainly don't unless you count me controlling myself and forcing myself not to go to the user who has just forgotton his network password for the tenth time that week and batter him over the head with his keyboard.

Fingon

Yes the industry has grown up. Things are more complex now. Demands are higher. Expectations of specialists are higher. The smart money and the number of smart jobs has collapsed to the centre. It's a hothouse atmosphere and a great challenge.

Companies are generally more savvy now about what they require from techs. It's much harder to blag it now and make $$$$$$. You have to know things in detail and you have to know it very well. Not only configure. Design. Match technologies to business goals. Integrate. That takes time, effort, ability, the right experience and a thirst for new things. So you have to want it and you have to work for it. Not a place for flashy wideboys to make easy bucks anymore. Less room for them. Automate, co-locate, virtualise, downsize, offshore. Companies need engineers to get them there, and very good ones at that. Convergence anyone?

Excellent engineers are still required.

It's fun though and there are still good jobs out there.

My working week is finally over. It's 10:30pm Friday night and Im just done reading the SRTT nuances of EIGRP. Go figure

Kaminsky

One thing I will say about this industry.

You will never have a day just like any other day that has gone before. It's alway moving with always different problems everyday. Some you know how to fix, some you have to work out, some that absolutely dumbfound all your efforts .... I could never do a 9-5 in a small company. I would be dead within a week!

The pay is good compared to relevent grades in other departments and you get to be the hero a lot as your average user base is still coming to terms with the nuances of that screen in front of them. Nomatter how clever they are, they always turn to you when they are stuck. (10 years ago we were trying to get them to understand how a mouse worked and that you didn't actually have to hold it against the screen and that the print screen button didnt actually involve holding a sheet of blank paper against the screen to get their printout - I am not kidding! I've seen it with my own eyes!)

In 20 years time it will be a completely different matter if my 7/5/4 year olds are anything to go by. (little s**t just beat me at Quake 3 duel and kicks my butt on Fifa 07)

If you get a buzz from IT and you enjoy learning the ins and outs of it all then this is the profession for you. I have been actively working in IT nearly 15 years now and I still get hacked off and the hairs go up on the back of my neck when I can't get something working or the whole system comes to grinding halt half hour before I turn in for work and get told about the problem as I am walking up the corridore, coffee in hand, by the senior Service Desk manager, dashing out almost pleading with me to get it sorted asap as your the only one that can. (not true but it does feel good when they say it - when all it is is that the server has got it's knickers in a twist and just needs a reboot so you reboot and walk out and tell them it will be up in 2 minutes.... well you can imagine!)

The more people that certify and understand the new technologies coming out, the better our industry becomes [don't think of it from a job competition point of view.. think of the long term], AND the more difficult it will be for the folks that haven't heard the .com fiasco is now over and the harder time the short cut certifiers are going to have trying to blag their way into our profession, giving the rest of us a bad name.

Fluidly Unsure

I think 2 problems with the IT industry that I didn't see addressed are recruiters/head-hunters and over specialization.

My two recent experiences with head-hunters were attempts to sell me for something I wasn't. I assume that would be a source of frustration for employers. I had a recruiter that had me re-write a web site in cold fusion so I could take credit for the live site. Then he wrote a resume that should have won a Pulitzer prize for modern fiction and tried to sell me as an expert in fuse-box methodologies. I had an "inside recruiter" teach me Java technologies, but in the middle of my study he was fired for hiring under qualified people. BTW; it was Ameri-quest.

Most developers I know are so specialized that they have no idea what the world is like outside their flat screen. They may be good at and dream in C++/Java/IOS but their attitude hurts end-users while it give the IT world a bad name. It is the same attitude that has given the world; TCP/IP, HTTP, PAP, WEP, DSA, etc.

bobbyairtime

i am a recruiter/head-hunter and i don't consider myself to be bringing down the IT world. I am honest with my candidates and with my clients. there is no reason for me to lie, or oversell a candidate. the client is going to find out one way or another. if they question the candidate on skill and they don't know---i'm busted and lose a client. If they hire that candidate and then they blow it because they don't know something ---i'm busted and lose a client. If this was a problem in the past, then these so called recruiters are just looking to make the quick buck and aren't really looking to the future and long-term working relationships.

blargoe

I have stayed in IT because I'm really good at it, and really bad at everything else.

There are lots of jobs out there. The nature of the available jobs is what has changed. The difference today is that you don't get a fast track anymore, you have to drudge away doing grunt work and gradually work your way up. and more often when you're just starting out you have to open yourself up to temp and contract work until you get more years under your belt. But at least for today, there are lots of great jobs if you stick with it long enough to get the experience even if it is painful for a while.

Slowhand

bobbyairtime wrote:

i am a recruiter/head-hunter and i don't consider myself to be bringing down the IT world. I am honest with my candidates and with my clients. there is no reason for me to lie, or oversell a candidate. the client is going to find out one way or another. if they question the candidate on skill and they don't know---i'm busted and lose a client. If they hire that candidate and then they blow it because they don't know something ---i'm busted and lose a client. If this was a problem in the past, then these so called recruiters are just looking to make the quick buck and aren't really looking to the future and long-term working relationships.

I think this might even be called "paper recruiters", just the same as people who misrepresent themselves with dumping certs have "paper certs". Just as there are countless people honestly studying, learning, and earning their certs, there are others still who **** and lie to get to where they need to be. It brings the whole industry down, and I'd imagine that there are people like this all over, be it in certification, recruiting, and anything else. We can't whitewash things, gathering them into a sweeping generalization of "the one thing that's making life miserable is <insert scapegoat issue here>". What causes problems in any industry, in any part of life, is usually more complex than one single thing or another.

Jammywanks

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,144174-c,markettrends/article.html

Tech Spending Stable Worldwide, Analysts Say

A Gartner study finds that IT spending has so far been largely unaffected, despite the ongoing signs of weakness in the U.S. and global economies.

On a global basis, the projected IT budget growth rate for 2008 is 3.3 percent, unchanged from a previous Gartner survey.

Just came across this article. Since there have not been any posts in a while I would like to perhaps ease some fears of most recent times with the economy.

Vassago68

I have a question for those of you already working in the field.

I am currently in the Army, and I am a 25B. (IT Tech). I have 3 years left in the Army, and am currently working towards my Bachelors at DeVry in CIS with a subtrack in ISS. While I am doing this, I have already earned my A+ Cert, and am currently working on my CCNA. After I finish that, I will most likely work on either my CCNP or my CCSP

With 5 years experience in this field when I get out of the Army, and 10 prior to that in other various Communication fields via the Army as well, is it easier or harder for Military to get jobs?

I know I can get contracting jobs for the Military working on various systems that we use over here as a DSE, but that is not the course I want to take as they still come to Iraq. When I get out, I want to get as far away from having to leave my wife again as I can. Although I know working in some security fields for IT require travel.

I just wanted to get some inside info as to the challenge I am looking at.

Tyrant1919

Being former military, with a security clearance, plenty of hands on experience, and a few certs, you'll be golden. 3 Years is a long time, you may stay in...

I'm looking for a contract position to go to Iraq for a year or so actually.

networker050184

Many civilian companies look very highly upon military. When I got out of the Army not to long ago I wanted to get away from any military contracting as well. I had no problem getting a job with a company with zero ties to the military. I did have a lot of offers from contracting companies as well, but like you didn't want to take another trip overseas away from the family. As Tyrant1919 stated with all the experience and other perks that come with the military like clearance and discipline you shouldn't have a problem finding work.

Vassago68

Actually, I've talked it over with my wife. That's why I am pushing myself so hard right now. I am working 12-16 hour days here in Iraq (I'm the BN Automations NCOIC and most of my soldiers have little experience so I am still training them). I have a little over 11 years in now, and I just can't do the deployments anymore. I've had 5 deployments, and when I was offered an instructor slot to teach our MOS, Fort Stewart blocked it and snagged me up real fast.

I already haven't seen my wife in 2 and a half years due to schools, deployments and other things going on in her life as well. I just can't see myself puting in the last 8 years doing the same thing. It's time for a family and stability. Right now my job can't offer me that.

I was just curious as to how military faired against other competition out there. Like I said, I should get my degree finished, and then I will be pushing hard for any and all certs I can grab.

Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated.

Tyrant1919 - What type of contracting job were you looking for? I work hand in hand with a lot of the contractors over here for the Datapath (CPN/JNN), BFT, MTS, and CPOF.

A lot of the jobs will require training on the item in question, but things like the CPOF if you have experience with scripting and such, it isn't that hard to get a job with them. Try looking at Man Tech. They are the ones that do a lot of the CPOF and MTS contracting jobs.

It's frustrating as a soldier over here working all these hours and then seeing a guy working on the CPOF work on average about 4-6 hours a day, and pay more in taxes a month then I get paid base salary. But Man Tech is a good company to look at if you are interested.