This did not make me laugh

Pash

My company is doing appraisals currently ready for the new financial year. I have had a very busy year, working hard, doing lots of overtime, travelling on business trips etc ohh and inbetween all that I have been revising and failing/passing IT certification exams......Of course this all seems very worth it when you take our company appraisal questions and see that skills in email replying bcc/cc is weighted heavier than having MCP's or a CCNA. Ohh beleive me it does get better as well but i better not say anymore

To say im mad is an understatement, my own free time is effectively worth less than being able to reply to an email and copy in the right people.....even though this skill still stumbles even people in management positions here. It's a joke.

Do you think I should have a big moan about this or wait until the pay review is done?


One very mad Pash!

EdTheLad

It generally happens everywhere, guys who do little,know less, send out loads of emails giving the impression they run the show.This is the one thing i love about my job now, everyone pulls together and ensures the right people get the recognition.
If your not happy with the salary increase, move on.Don't live your life worrying about what others get, just be happy with what your getting and if your not, move on.If its about your ego,then you need to work on that, but for me money talks.

sprkymrk

Pash, if it makes you feel better, I am giving you a raise here at TE. Let's see, you've been posting really good and helpful stuff, studying and passing exams, hmmm... I say you deserve a good 20% increase over what I currently pay you. Plus a 10% cash bonus of what I paid you last year.

Just fill in the blanks and I'll finalise the paperwork ASAP.

Current TE salary:___ x 1.2 = ___ (New salary)
Total earned last year at TE:___ x .1 = ___ (Bonus)

darkuser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vV3QGagck

nel

Hi ash,

i know exactly how you feel. Same thing happens at my place. Dont let it derail you on your qualifications trek. in the end it will pay off. and if you dont get the pay and (more importantly in my eyes) dont get the opportunity to work with real IT tasks (like the problem i have at the min!) then i would move on.

Ive seen many of your posts and you've been getting some great experiance which is key at our age. so stick with it until you can get the job you want.

eMeS

This is the exact reason I am independent. I don't need some inept jackass "rating" my performance, while other people in an organization basically get away with stealing paychecks.

That, and I couldn't be more opposed to the idea of employee appraisals. Employers have generally been shammed by HR about these systems. Employee appraisal systems are more often than not:

Inaccurate Divisive Subjective Morale and Motivation Inhibitors Popularity Contests

The people that are getting the good ratings will never see a problem with the rating system.

Management generally hates the task of writing and delivering reviews, and tends to just go through the motions to get it done.

W. Edwards Deming is often known in business circles as a quality and process guy. However, he considered employee appraisal systems to be basically junk. If you want to read a well-respected person's views from the world of organizational behavior and management theory, then I suggest that you take a look at Deming's work. Specifically, Deming's "Point" 11, which says "Eliminate work standards (quotas) and management by objective", and Point 12, which says "Remove barriers which rob workers, engineers, and managers of their right to pride of workmanship."

www.deming.org

One of my favorite things that Deming said is that employers often think that appraisal systems protect them from legal liability, when the truth of the matter is exactly the opposite. Written reviews often become evidence in cases where employees are suing their employers.

It's regretful that this system had this effect on you. Hopefully the long-term effect will be that if you are ever a manager, and are faced with the task of writing and delivering reviews, you will show some leadership and help your organization move past antiquated employee appraisal systems.

My rant is over...MS

Pash

Thanks for the response as always guys and thanks for the link eMes

I think im gonna mention it in my review meeting. I don't need to be irate about it, just make a clear point and back it up on why I think weighting mcp's so low in scoring compared to other skills is wrong. Especially when I was required to pass those exams to meet our own customers support requirements, so basically my company is making money from our customer by using my free time to achieve this....only to belittle the result. The logic is beyond me, but I will post what they say

Cheers,

HeroPsycho

Check this out...

My performance review in January of 2007 for year 2006 basically rated me a 4/5. I accomplished my MCSE 2003 in half the time I was given to do it, and got certified in ISA 2004. I was put on the biggest project the company had, and was praised for my contributions.

In my performance eval, I was told basically I'm great on a technical level, but I need to work on "personal development". I also was dinged for not billing a full 40 hours each and every week while on the project over the course of the year. (Missed a half hour here and there very infrequently.) I was also dinged for talking to clients at too high of a technical level, which "overshadows my overall message". I was given a raise of about 6%.

So, the following year, I billed more than any engineer in the entire company, made it a point to not talk too technically to customers (I didn't think I did anyway), focused on developing project management and other soft skills, and obtained MCSE 2003: Messaging in my spare time, VCP after being sent to training for the first time in almost two years, and ISA 2006.

My performance eval last January rated me... wait for it... wait for it...

4/5!

What did I get dinged for?

"Outstanding ability to progress his technical development...(but) I encourage [him] to focus an equal amount of time on personal development associated with his communication skills."

Also dinged for not billing 40 hours every week when I had the opportunity. Nevermind I billed far more than 40 hours numerous times, one of which saving the company a client when another engineer blew their entire infrastructure up, and I worked 36 hours pretty much straight over the weekend to get it back up after already working 40 hours at another site.

Also dinged for not formalizing my goals and objectives, despite me bringing my goals and objectives on paper to my performance eval meeting, and had been bugging the ever loving crap out of them for training that I never got to meet the goals I had for the previous year they agreed to help me with, including CISSP, you know, on my formalized objectives from the year before.

Salary increase: 0%. That's the only thing I was ticked about - no salary increase. "well, you know the company is having hard times, blah blah blah..."

Look, unless there are actual major legitimate issues with your performance, realize they're gonna say whatever they can get away with saying to show you're not perfect. If you were perfect, you'd be convinced you deserve way more money. So they'll say some things that could be true but don't consider other factors in the circumstances. They'll even say a few outright lies, but they'll say stuff that you can't really get openly pissed about. What am I gonna do? Blow up and yell because my manager is saying I'm a Senior Systems Engineer who talks too technically? What are you gonna do - blow up and yell because they think you didn't CC the right people a few times?

HR guys are there to do whatever they can, assuming you are an asset to the company, to get you to stay and do the work they need for as little money as possible.

Also, par for the course is a cost of living increase in the absence of a major promotion. You get your money coming in the door, not staying there.

There's no point in saying anything. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. Keep bettering yourself get yourself into a position to make the jump to where you want to be. It's likely not going to be at this company. And when you make the jump to where you want to be, you'll start all over again, prepping to get yourself in a position to get yourself to where you want to be that's beyond where you just got to, and you realize most likely again that it's not gonna be with that company either.

It's the circle of IT life!

dynamik

HP, you realize you just made Pash feel better at the expensive of making everyone else feel worse, right? Thanks a lot

HeroPsycho

There's nothing to feel good or bad about. LOL...

Dude, this is IT. You should feel good about making progress.

I didn't take it personally when they didn't give me a raise. It just kicked my butt into hyper-gear.

I don't see it as my former employers didn't "respect me" or "appreciate me". I see it for the reality that it is: I'm growing, my career is advancing, and my compensation is increasing. I feel good that I'm taking care of my family, and we're relatively happy and getting happier.

That's what it's all about, and don't ever lose sight of that.

Early on in my career, I took things personally. My first IT job I was cut after spending all the money I had and then some to move to where the job was. I was pissed and depressed at the same time, and spent a lot of time bouncing between what was wrong with the job I did and outright anger for them doing this injustice to me.

With time comes perspective. That opportunity was the best thing that ever happened to my career, and it wasn't something I did wrong, as I saw they did that to every contractor there. It was a financial move to outsource the positions.

The dispassionate view of what's happening to me now is either one of two things:

A. I was overcompensated, and it's now corrected.
B. I've outgrown this position.

I'll know the answer if I get a better job.

snadam

I think dynamik was kidding? :

HeroPsycho

There's a no humor policy in effect here. Didn't you get the memo?

snadam

HeroPsycho wrote:

There's a no humor policy in effect here. Didn't you get the memo?

apparently not; the emoticon threw me off

dynamik

snadam wrote:

I think dynamik was kidding? :

Actually, I was really broken up. I spent all night drowning my sorrows in alcohol. Wait... was it sorrows? Maybe it was boredom from MS studies. I can't really remember at this point...

Oh well. You guys sort it out. I need to grab another beer and watch more nuggets.

snadam

dynamik wrote:

snadam wrote:

I think dynamik was kidding? :

Actually, I was really broken up. I spent all night drowning my sorrows in alcohol. Wait... was it sorrows? Maybe it was boredom from MS studies. I can't really remember at this point...

Oh well. You guys sort it out. I need to grab another beer and watch more nuggets.

figured that was the case

oh, and youre about 2 beers behind!

UnixGuy

I can definitely relate to what you said guys. Specially the CC email thing lol...it's soo stupid that's funny sometimes!


See, my senior and mentor once told me, don't open your mouth for 5 yrs. Honestly, try to abide with the laws and follow your managers to a certain extent of course. But when you become an invaluable asset to the company, and by invaluable I don't mean merely a senior with experience and certs(because many people have this!), but a leader with rare certs and cutting edge experience, then and only then you will be irreplaceable. They will depend on you in big projects, they will need your certificates to get more contracts, they will need you to support certain projects because you are likely the only one who can handle them. When you be an important source of money for the company, they will make sure you stay and stay happy

I believe there you can ask for whatever you want. Regardless of the HR assessment, because it's just there job (as you said guys) to take as much as they can from the employee with the least cost.

Pash

haha thanks for the response again guys.

HerePsycho: This is a very small IT consultancy/engineering/support firm. We have maybe 28 staff in London, working across various sites and from our main office. So the people who write these assements are infact the managers who are very experienced IT vet's. Not HR do gooders.

They all seem to claim they know too much to need to be certified, but I was asked to complete a goal of having 270 290 291 before april this year to meet our customers global IT support policy. This was studied for 95% in my own time. They of course raise their contract price to our customer as a new financial year approaches so it's all roses and peaches for them now.

So yes your right, they don't like to let people think they are perfect and they can be replaced as easily as they came in.

Pash

Score weighting for those are interested:-

email skills cc/bcc etc = 5

CCNA = 3

MCP = 2

random one:-

Remote modem access for network device = 3

So like I said, my free time study really seems worth it based on these scores

HeroPsycho

Pash, notice the subjective criteria are conveniently weighted more. DING DING DING!

Funny how that works, eh?

pryde7

I wish we could pass the mic, no the keyboard to a manager of such firms. You'll get a similar but opposite strongly worded perspective.

Newton's 3rd Law applies here, equal and opposite forces...keep employees and employers on the balance.

Ahriakin

Metrics written by managers that give weight to the type of 'technical' functions (since apparently it's a highly valued and rare skill to be able to press the BCC button...) they can handle...how odd it's rated so . I would bring it up too as you said, not blow up but put them on notice that their technicians see exactly what they are doing.

HeroPsycho I think a large part of the problem is the attitude here in the states. Back home (Ireland) I always got good performance based reviews, even on the first few lower paid jobs I did there was a definite gain from a good review, something tangible for you to work for. In the US raises without promotions are practically non-existent, 3% is the norm with anything more being seen as exceptional...which is BS compared to the rest of the western world. You have to move positions and/or companies to see any real gain which is completely counter productive for the companies themselves. They rely instead on keeping people hooked with so called benefits (that are again provided as standard in most other developed countries). The corporate system here is severely broken. Ridiculously short vacation times, low raises, extortionate basic services that you essentially need company help with...It's all designed to make the average Joe work himself to death while those at the top laugh at how we all bought the propaganda and their american dream with our sweat.

HeroPsycho

Wow, you sound like a democrat...

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

itdaddy

Ahriakin said:

It's all designed to make the average Joe work himself to death while those at the top laugh at how we all bought the propaganda and their american dream with our sweat.

Amercian dream is the same dream East Indians have or Irishman! we all want a better life.
Why do you think we have so many people who come to the USA..They want the same thing.
Even if they lived in their counrty, they would want the same American dream. I get tired of
all you non Americans dog us Americans...I have friends all over the world and see that we all want the same thing...I dont agree with all the decisioons made in American government,
but America is a good country...is their better out there..I believe so but many many non Ameicans keep coming to America..and maybe the influx of millions of non americans is the reason for it decline?????? so to blame America is a cheap shot! We all want a better life.
(you can see it is a sore spot for me huh? hahahha)

Oh yeah on an Ireland note. I think Ireland is a beautiful country! I was in th Air Force and I have seen many countries!

cheers dude!

But eventually, every good things comes to an end hopefully to create another good thing..i hope!
dude I could not have said it better. But what really sucks, it is only a matter of time and many other developed countries will be getting the same cancer called GREED!

stupid Arse CEOs and corportae giants want 1 billion this year vs say 500 million or 750 million.
Dammn it i want that island this year off the coast of so and so ! So I think I will jack the price of gas up so i can buy that island and call it my name! Island of GREEE bassterds!

but you said it perfectly...It is not an American thing, it is all over the world! the rich get richer
and the peeps who bust their butts except Dr, lawyers etc..those who have esoterric career fields, and are built buy initial large cash flows!

but yeah, you have to be happy on to the way you are going! and TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN
looks great to me!

darkuser

itdaddy wrote:

Ahriakin said:

It's all designed to make the average Joe work himself to death while those at the top laugh at how we all bought the propaganda and their american dream with our sweat.

Amercian dream is the same dream East Indians have or Irishman! we all want a better life.
Why do you think we have so many people who come to the USA..They want the same thing.
Even if they lived in their counrty, they would want the same American dream. I get tired of
all you non Americans dog us Americans...I have friends all over the world and see that we all want the same thing...I dont agree with all the decisioons made in American government,
but America is a good country...is their better out there..I believe so but many many non Ameicans keep coming to America..and maybe the influx of millions of non americans is the reason for it decline?????? so to blame America is a cheap shot! We all want a better life.
(you can see it is a sore spot for me huh? hahahha)

Oh yeah on an Ireland note. I think Ireland is a beautiful country! I was in th Air Force and I have seen many countries!

cheers dude!

But eventually, every good things comes to an end hopefully to create another good thing..i hope!
dude I could not have said it better. But what really sucks, it is only a matter of time and many other developed countries will be getting the same cancer called GREED!

stupid Arse CEOs and corportae giants want 1 billion this year vs say 500 million or 750 million.
Dammn it i want that island this year off the coast of so and so ! So I think I will jack the price of gas up so i can buy that island and call it my name! Island of GREEE bassterds!

but you said it perfectly...It is not an American thing, it is all over the world! the rich get richer
and the peeps who bust their butts except Dr, lawyers etc..those who have esoterric career fields, and are built buy initial large cash flows!

but yeah, you have to be happy on to the way you are going! and TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN
looks great to me!

well said ... isnt the key word here freedom ?
if you dont like it here your're free to not let the door hit you in the a** .....

techster79

Kinda unrelated to the thread but I couldn't let this just pass as is. Greed is thrown out as a bad thing, which it can be, but ignored is the JEALOUSY/ENVY that those who don't have so much toward those who have alot. Now some greed, jealousy, envy can be healthy. I want X or I want to be like Y, so I do ABC to achieve Z. Desire to earn wealth and spend it is what drives the economy.

Now as far as the comment here:

So I(CEO) think I will jack the price of gas up so i can buy that island and call it my name!

No CEO or corporate giant has this kind of power. It is controlled by the free market, biggest power being OPEC, but in the US most of our oil comes from Canada. If CEO A jacks up his profit margin, CEO B can cut his prices and undercut the profit margin of CEO A. As far as gas prices specifically here is what they are made up of:

http://www.channel3000.com/news/9100743/detail.html - Source

Gallon of gas = $2.95
Cost of crude oil = $1.62
Refining costs = $0.65
Taxes = $0.55 that is over 18% of the money spent at the pump
Distrib/retailers = $0.12

Most oil companies make .10 - .25 profit per gallon after all expenses and paying their employees. When the gov't takes .55 per gallon. Who is profiteering? Who is price gauging? It is not who you think. Oh and the corporate oil companies still pay taxes on the profit on top of the 18% that comes off the top. Just food for thought.

SRTMCSE

Pash wrote:

Score weighting for those are interested:-

email skills cc/bcc etc = 5

CCNA = 3

MCP = 2

random one:-

Remote modem access for network device = 3

So like I said, my free time study really seems worth it based on these scores

excuse my ignorance, but what do they mean by e-mail skills cc/bcc?? i may understand this a bit now w/ my new job at a large financial firm in NYC, every e-mail sent between staff is cc'd to the ENTIRE Systems Admin group and many e-mails are cc'd to every IT employee. I just don't understand it, and the first few days here before I realized I needed to turn my blackberry's e-mail alert to silent, I nearly had my hip bone damaged by all the vibrating.

Ahriakin

Riiiggghhhhttt.... Part of the problem is you see an attack on the work system here as an attack on the country or the people themselves, at no point did I denigrate either...and eh...where did Freedom come in to the conversation? Was it notalways there and not needing of mention.

Pointing out that the corporate ethic here is worse than most other developed countries is merely a statement of fact. Yes there is greed everywhere, and companies exist to make money BUT europeans/australians etc. draw the line between quality of life and work well before the average american is told to so the accepted corporate ethic has not been allowed to erode that quality of life to the extent it has here.
Obviously I live in the states, my wife is american, my friends and extended family here are. All good people and hard workers, again I never said anything different. My point is simple: Relative to the rest of the developed world US workers are treated much more harshly, and it does not increase productivity. I've also worked in a number of countries and while each has it's quirks the US is by far the least attractive place I've found to work in - and that includes being compared to countries where I've literally worked month long 12 hour day shifts, the compensation and enjoyment of the job made that worth it, here it just doesn't stack up aswell (even though I am earning more).

The same corporations that run US healthcare and investment groups bought Politicians from both sides a long time ago. The checks and balances that should exist to improve your quality of life and work are controlled by the dollars of those that benefit from the situation.

That's all. I respect your opinions guys but please don't turn this into an argument about freedom or respect for the country or people as a whole.

itdaddy

tetechster79


dude you got to be kidding! you must have stock in oil too! man i do not buy it!
yeah there is tax. and I understand the pie breakdown! i was making a metaphore dude!

you must have stock in oil or something that is affected by gas hike!

simple math! transport cost go up so does the cost of anything affected by the upswing of transport costs! but i the ceo think i iwll add a few more cents times a billion partons mean
that island i have been wanting!

hhaahah LOL...basic math here no calc here man! or maybe!

i do not buy it! it is greed! look at the charts on gas prices!

1979 to 2005 you had like gas from like 1.20 to 1.90 but no more than 2.00 a gallon
from 2005 to 2008 you have a huge spike in gas prices!

dude do you watch the stocks???? I do!! and maybe i can bring better facts but dont try to
hide what is the truth! it is known freaking fact man that Oil manufacturers or anyone
dealing with oil and gas in each quarter have reach in the Billions and Billons of dollars in earning. crap man dont get me started but you need to watch the stocks! and fact..

it is about money and how they can suck us dry...GREED people!
i was saying CEOs for the very fact that those who hold shares! look at Bush! he owns
oil; he sure isnt complaining!


and the sick thing is maybe i wouldnt either if noone could do anything about it and I was
sucking people of their money so i can buy an island!

i might have the sickness too but i know me and i would try to help others with my money!
that is why i am not rich!

it just sucks!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

this is a good argument and hope i am not too offensive but it just fires me right up!

stocks = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ profits
and CEOs meaning share holders!

itdaddy

Ahriakin


I agree with your candid view...it just sucks and is **** me off about our coutry that
I believe is still great othewise why would so many non americans come live here.
and you said it...(more money)

i like your honesty!

and I am sorry if i was attacking you; you hold valid arguments!

just dont forget America when the chips are down!

i hate it when people use our Country and and then dog it! it makes me nutz!

itdaddy

but ignored is the JEALOUSY/ENVY that those who don't have so much toward those who have alot.

just like i said......you dont see President Bush complaining or doing anything about Gas prices!


the Rich get richer and the poor get pooring! nothing has changed since 1777!
and techchstr you sound just like a man who has the profits!

i am not jealous! just sucks when you can be too GReeddy! ambious yes but greedy to the max no!

i can bet you worked for where you are at but i am sure you had some luck (right place right time)

itdaddy

techster79

Most oil companies make .10 - .25 profit per gallon after all expenses and paying their employees. When the gov't takes .55 per gallon. Who is profiteering? Who is price gauging? It is not who you think. Oh and the corporate oil companies still pay taxes on the profit on top of the 18% that comes off the top. Just food for thought.

i agree with you but you are missing some numbers; the oil companies a known fact
are making record breaking earnings each quarter in the billions! that is what my point is

both government and companies are Greedy! not ambitious!

the point is someone is taking our money and if you are rich you dont care!
not all of us can be rich! it is such a waste

okay i am done!