Do Companies pay entry lvl IT workers what we are worth?

binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
This has been something I have been thinking about for a while.

Lets take me as an example.


I work in a 24x7 NOC in a data center. My duties include Monitoring the Network, working on customer requests for support, such as racking and cabling new equipment, making cables(568A,B,X-over)configuring devices, troubleshooting basic networking issues, server reboots, provisioning new circuits on the ONS, opening up servers and installing new cards such as HBA etc. In addition to this, we assist with out internal IT Stuff. Basically, a help desk/technician.

My employer starts this position at 31k a year. Now I know I only have 2 certs, entry level at that, and only two years experience, but my position does require a good deal of skill.


To me, this is low pay for the amount of skills required to fill my position. I have an acquaintance who has a job as an air conditioning tech, has about the same amount of experience in his field, and makes nearly 10k more a year.

Is it that employers feel they can pay whatever they like because there is always someone willing to take my place, maybe for less pay? Or, do I just work for a crap employer?

Or maybe im wrong and employers pay what our skills are worth? I know some other people with around the comparable experience earn around the same as me.

I originally decided to get into IT, besides liking the jobs, because it was supposed to be a well paying field, with a lot of demand. But after working in it for two years, I just dont see it.

So am I wrong and just whining? :D
Doh
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Comments

  • neathneathneathneathneathneath Posts: 438Member
    consider yourself lucky that you are not working in a school.

    I really enjoy my job and all that goes with it but schools (in the UK) do not or are unable to pay the going rates unfortunately.

    Upside of that they can pay for some Microsoft Courses and even exams icon_study.gif

    Been on a few courses and school has paid for a couple of my MCP exams.

    Also, sometimes with pay scales - you don't get if you don't ask, worth a try.
  • supertechCETmasupertechCETma Posts: 377Member
    binari wrote:
    So am I wrong and just whining? :D
    pretty much.
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  • cacharocacharo Posts: 361Member
    binari wrote:
    I originally decided to get into IT, besides liking the jobs, because it was supposed to be a well paying field, with a lot of demand. But after working in it for two years, I just dont see it.

    Pay and demand go hand in hand for the area you are in. A company is going to pay about as low as they can to start out, as long as there is someone willing to work for it and they are happy with the output they receive. By originally taking the position you are essentially reaffirming that the company has chosen the right price to start out. When you originally took the position you were likely looking to get your 'foot in the door' as most entry techs are and were willing to take a pay decrease to do so.

    That being said, I would consider it low for LA, but feel to look around if you think you are worth more. Just make sure that you are continuing to progress and build your skillset while in your current position. It will be much easier to negotiate with some additional education, certs, and experience.
    Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them become what they are capable of being.
  • binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    cacharo wrote:
    binari wrote:
    That being said, I would consider it low for LA, but feel to look around if you think you are worth more. Just make sure that you are continuing to progress and build your skillset while in your current position. It will be much easier to negotiate with some additional education, certs, and experience.

    I do know that really the only one that can get me a raise is me. But I am not talking about just me, I just used me as an example. I am talking about the industry as a whole.

    Take a neighbor I had a while back. He works at a hotel and all he does all day is pick up dirty linen from the housekeepers/maids. That is his only job. He makes $14.50 an hour. Now, I make only a little bit more than him, and I have much more skills that him, much more stress than him, much more responsibility than him.

    Theres something wrong with an industry as a whole when we can consider getting paid slightly more that someone picking up dirty sheets, OK.

    I have actually been considering moving on, but want to pass the iCND2 first, maybe 30 days or so, but I dont think CCNA's can demand much more either.
    Doh
  • cacharocacharo Posts: 361Member
    Like I said,
    cacharo wrote:
    A company is going to pay about as low as they can to start out, as long as there is someone willing to work for it and they are happy with the output they receive.
    binari wrote:
    He makes $14.50 an hour. Now, I make only a little bit more than him, and I have much more skills that him, much more stress than him, much more responsibility than him.

    I also know people that work disgusting jobs and get paid just fine. That is their choice but you really can not compare the two. Your friend has likely capped in his position, I don't know any sheet sanitation engineers making 6 figures.

    Again, like I said.
    cacharo wrote:
    When you originally took the position you were likely looking to get your 'foot in the door' as most entry techs are and were willing to take a pay decrease to do so.

    In my opinion, it is an even trade. You get the entry-level experience you were after and they get someone willing and eager to work it for the right price.
    Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them become what they are capable of being.
  • BeaverC32BeaverC32 Posts: 671Member
    Look for another job if you aren't happy with your salary. You are overgeneralizing about "the entire industry" based on your one job. Personally, the industry has treated me very nicely so far.
    MCSE 2003, MCSA 2003, LPIC-1, MCP, MCTS: Vista Config, MCTS: SQL Server 2005, CCNA, A+, Network+, Server+, Security+, Linux+, BSCS (Information Systems)
  • MishraMishra Posts: 2,468Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Of course it's fine to ask this question or feel this way. Seems that people are giving you a bit of trouble you don't deserve for asking this.

    Bascially I can't answer your original question. The entire industry varies completely from state to state and job to job. Helpdesk people here get paid 45K and have a whole SLEW of benefits... And don't know the different between a monitor and a computer.

    But we can basically assume that you are unhappy with your current salary. In response to that, I can say that it is all about investments. You are investing your time in the IT career to move up in the salary ladder. Everyone experiences different levels. I personally started out at 7.15 an hour doing basic system administration work. However through hard work and time I've been able to increase my investment 4 fold.

    The most important thing is to not stop trying and to work as hard as you can to increase your investment. Don't stay in helpdesk work for that long. Improve yourself quickly and spend the extra time at home studying and doing labs now or look for side work to do. In 4 years you can take a break and enjoy the ride as you make 80K.
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    You may learn something!
  • dynamikdynamik Posts: 12,314Banned
    You're also not looking at how much you will be able to increase your salary in time. Getting more certs and experience will likely lead you to a nice increase at your next position. Your buddy doing AC may have started higher, but he's probably not going to be make anywhere close to the gains you will either.
  • blargoeblargoe Posts: 4,165Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    That's the market pay rate for someone in a position such as yourself.

    1. There's a thousand more newbs/entry level just like you that would jump right in to your position for that amount of pay.

    2. Whether or not your skills are the same as others, they are taking a risk on someone who isn't seasoned in putting them in practice and dealing with things when they don't go according to the book.

    3. Your worth should go up substantially once you prove yourself over 1-3 years.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 1/29/2018 - Passed 70-743 - MCSA 2016 Complete; 1/13/2018 - Passed 70-411 - MCSA 2012 complete
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  • IT_AdminIT_Admin Posts: 158Member
    In order to get the $$$ you have the experience to go along with it.

    I was in the exact position as you in my last job, I was making next too nothing... but I knew that if I stuck it out and gained the experience the money would only go up. It didn't matter that I had my MCSE, it was seen as a entry level job and we were paid as such for it. If you can stick it out and gain as much experience you gain, hammer out the certs to back up the exp you have. In 2-3yrs you have so many more/better opportunities in front of you to choose from.

    It does suck, but we've all been there. Think of it as paying your dues in IT.
    Next victim: 70-351

    On my way to MCSE 2K3: Security
  • PlantwizPlantwiz Posts: 5,057Mod Mod
    binari wrote:
    ...

    Is it that employers feel they can pay whatever they like because there is always someone willing to take my place, maybe for less pay? Or, do I just work for a crap employer?
    ...


    You are paid what you agreed to work for....so in essense that is what YOU thought you were worth.

    Employers pay what the market can handle, if supply is high...they people willing to just have a job is high. When supply (of workers) is low, then the employers need to pay more for people to be interested.
    Plantwiz
    _____
    "Grammar and spelling aren't everything, but this is a forum, not a chat room. You have plenty of time to spell out the word "you", and look just a little bit smarter." by Phaideaux

    ***I'll add you can Capitalize the word 'I' to show a little respect for yourself too.

    'i' before 'e' except after 'c'.... weird?
  • bar182bar182 Posts: 44Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    Hows this then:

    My duties include:

    -I currently am responsible for the nationwide backups using Backup Exec accross 6 different sites.
    -I am the remote office specialist deploying Citrix/TS machines to offices over the country and supporting them. I do interstate travel to configure and install new and exsting offices
    -Was primary support for the biggest litigation case in the state which has recently been settled.
    -Currently installing new national SMTP server on ESX and am currently building a new Exchange server and migrating existing stores across to it.

    I am getting paid the same as my friend who works at an architectural place.

    Her duties include:

    -Reception assistance using switchboard
    -Setting up of meeting rooms
    -Kitchen duties
    -Ordering of stationary and kitchen supplies
    -Mail collection (date stamping and distributing in-coming mail)
    -Filing and typing of letters
    -General Data entry
    -Binding documents
    -Photocopying and scanning of documents

    IT is crap.
    MCP | MCTS:Vista| CCA:XenApp5|
    WIP > 70-291 for MCSA
  • binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    hey guys this was never about me. I just used my personal experiences as an example to illustrate what I see as a problem. I was always under the school of thought that if you worked hard, became skilled you would and should earn more. Now I am under no assumption that I would be getting paid 60k a year out of the gate, but I was under the assumption that studying, getting skills and, getting certified would get me a somewhat decent paying job.

    Does no one else see this as a problem? Its almost as if its okay for companies to take advantage, my opinion, of workers because they know we need a job. They know people want to break into IT so they know they can pay whatever they want and get away with it.

    Now I am by no means a socialist, or communist or any such nonsense, but I believe employees should be compensated fairly for what their skills are worth to the company. For example some weeks I can bill out for the company 5k. Thats a single weeks work, what di I get? About $550 a week. IT worker with my level of experience are essential for any company. We are not going to have our Staff CCIE or CCNP's racking servers, cabling, doing configs for news circuits and other mundane tasks, but those tasks are important and essential nonetheless.

    Is it OK for employers to low ball us, just because we are new, or fairly new to the industry? This will only lead to people getting discouraged and leaving the industry and therefore int industry can say cry that they need more H1B visa's so that they can import foreign workers who will work for less.

    Prices keep going up for everything. Companies in the industry charge more for their services/products but the pay rate for low experienced workers has stayed about the same. huh?

    Let me lastly say this, I have two IT industry certifications, Netowrk + and CCENT (working diligently on ICND2). My employer also employs a security staff for our facilities. The security guards get hired on @ $ 14 an hour. As a tech with the two industry certs stated above, I am earning about $2 more an hour that a newly hired security guard. My Skills are only worth $2 more an hour?

    Now as I said, I used myself as an example but I do know that it People with roughly the same experience level as myself are earning about the same, give or take a few dollars.
    Doh
  • TurgonTurgon Posts: 6,313Banned
    binari wrote:
    hey guys this was never about me. I just used my personal experiences as an example to illustrate what I see as a problem. I was always under the school of thought that if you worked hard, became skilled you would and should earn more. Now I am under no assumption that I would be getting paid 60k a year out of the gate, but I was under the assumption that getting studying, getting skills and, getting certified would get me a somewhat decent paying job.

    Does no one else see this as a problem? Its almost as if its okay for companies to take advantage, my opinion, of workers because they know we need a job. They know people want to break into IT so they know they can pay whatever they want and get away with it.

    Now I am by no means a socialist, or communist or any such nonsense, but I believe employees should be compensated fairly for what their skills are worth to the company. For example some weeks I can bill out for the company 5k. Thats a single weeks work, what di I get? About $550 a week. IT worker with my level of experience are essential for any company. We are not going to have out Staff CCIE or CCNP's racking servers, cabling, doing configs for news circuits and other mundane tasks, but those tasks are important and essential nonetheless.

    Is it OK for employers to low ball us, just because we are new, or fairly new to the industry? This will only lead to people getting discouraged and leaving the industry and therefore int industry can say cry that they need more H1B visa's so that they can import foreign workers who will work for less.

    Prices keep going up for everything. Companies in the industry charge more for their services/products but the pay rate for low experienced workers has stayed about the same. huh?

    Let me lastly say this, I have two IT industry certifications, Netowrk + and CCENT (working diligently on ICND2). My employer also employs a security staff for our facilities. The security guards get hired on @ $ 14 an hour. As a tech with the two industry certs stated above, I am earning about $2 more an hour that a newly hired security guard. My Skills are only worth $2 more an hour?

    Now as I said, I used myself as an example but I do know that it People with roughly the same experience level as myself are earning about the same, give or take a few dollars.

    Nothing wrong with some socialism in my book. IT is a monied field however. You will find most people make salary increases with job moves once they have gained enough experience to chance a step up in role and responsibilities elsewhere. This isn't a new phenomenen. It's exactly what I went through when I started out in 1997. Back then there was plenty of money about before the dot com crash and the world was investing in infrastructure to upgrade from Novell to NT, workgroups to Windows 95 and NT Workstation, Token Ring to Ethernet, Hubs to Switches. Even then you took a relatively low paid job and had to suck it up for anything upto two years before the money hikes were available, unless of course the buddy network worked for you. The buddy network didn't pay off a few years later when a lot of folks got laid off from plumb jobs, many of which were overpaid IMHO, mainly because the startups borrowed heavily before they crashed. What happened then was the high fliers had to try and start over, but many of them hadn't gone through the curve you are going through now so they got passed over for the jobs they had to start applying for because they didn't have the skills people like you obtain from paying their dues.

    Keep at it and look around. The better paid gigs come in time.
  • blargoeblargoe Posts: 4,165Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    bar182 wrote:
    IT is crap.
    IT is what you make of it.

    Who gets to decide what "fair" is? What are the criteria? In private industry, it's going to be getting the right combination of skills, experience, personality, and execution for the cheapest price. If they're willing to give up in one of those areas, they're going to find someone who will agree to work cheaper. Some companies don't, and have to pay more to get who they want. But as long as there's people who are willing to work for those rates and do a decent job, there is absolutely no reason why they should have to pay more.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 1/29/2018 - Passed 70-743 - MCSA 2016 Complete; 1/13/2018 - Passed 70-411 - MCSA 2012 complete
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  • bar182bar182 Posts: 44Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    blargoe wrote:
    bar182 wrote:
    IT is crap.
    IT is what you make of it.

    Who gets to decide what "fair" is? What are the criteria? In private industry, it's going to be getting the right combination of skills, experience, personality, and execution for the cheapest price. If they're willing to give up in one of those areas, they're going to find someone who will agree to work cheaper. Some companies don't, and have to pay more to get who they want. But as long as there's people who are willing to work for those rates and do a decent job, there is absolutely no reason why they should have to pay more.

    Higher level IT is fine, but entry level jobs are going to be paying lower and lower. Then you get job ads for a junior systems administrator requiring knowledge of every single technology and pays that of a garbage man.

    I wish I had of done plastic surgery instead :P

    But seriously do you think the two job listings I posted should pay the same?
    MCP | MCTS:Vista| CCA:XenApp5|
    WIP > 70-291 for MCSA
  • MishraMishra Posts: 2,468Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    bar182 wrote:

    Higher level IT is fine, but entry level jobs are going to be paying lower and lower. Then you get job ads for a junior systems administrator requiring knowledge of every single technology and pays that of a garbage man.

    I wish I had of done plastic surgery instead :P

    But seriously do you think the two job listings I posted should pay the same?

    There is no comparison. They are 2 completely different careers.

    Again I say,

    "The entire industry varies completely from state to state and job to job. Helpdesk people here get paid 45K and have a whole SLEW of benefits... And don't know the different between a monitor and a computer."

    And as cacharo said "I don't know any sheet sanitation engineers making 6 figures.".
    My blog http://www.calegp.com

    You may learn something!
  • binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    blargoe wrote:
    bar182 wrote:
    IT is crap.
    IT is what you make of it.

    Who gets to decide what "fair" is? What are the criteria? In private industry, it's going to be getting the right combination of skills, experience, personality, and execution for the cheapest price. If they're willing to give up in one of those areas, they're going to find someone who will agree to work cheaper. Some companies don't, and have to pay more to get who they want. But as long as there's people who are willing to work for those rates and do a decent job, there is absolutely no reason why they should have to pay more.

    I have read articles and seen on the news about how the IT industry wants more H1B visa's so they can import more high skilled IT people from india and pakistan and such places because they (bill gates among others) say there are not enough here, oh and btw they dont pay them as much as American born and legal immigrant high skilled workers already here.

    Thats fair right? Whatever the private industry wants to do, they can right?

    Lets not get into what is "fair" because that is interpretive.

    I think its fair to pay people a fair wage for work done, you dont.


    Let me get this disclosure out of the way. I have nothing against Immigrants from central and south america. Done.

    Ok, now it would not surprise me to find out that the IT industry was lobbying congress to try to get them to pass that illegal Immigrant amnesty bill last year. If it had passed, Run some of those new legal workers through a crash course and badabang! new IT workers willing to work for $6 an hour. Sure, quality would go down a lot, but with all the money they were saving on labor would makle up for it. :D
    Doh
  • undomielundomiel Posts: 2,818Member
    This is why salary information isn't shared in a company. It just creates strife between people who think their job is "better" or "more valuable" than someone else's job and so they get dissatisfied with things and start complaining. It doesn't matter what Larry or Jane are making for sorting the mail or making sales calls. What matters is what you are being paid for your job. Don't like the pay and truly feel you are worth more? Shop around and find out what other employers in your area are paying for the same type of work. Then go make a case for why your job should be worth more to your employer. Don't like their answer? Find a job that you feel pays you what you are worth. Can't get a job that pays you what you think you are worth? Then go fix what is holding you back. Your certifications or education don't automatically set what a pay scale is or what a pay scale should be. Ignore salary surveys. Employers pay for the work they need to get done, not what a certification "demands" for its compensation. If the employer needs someone to take out the garbage and they are willing to pay $8/h for that then it doesn't matter if the garbage man has quad CCIEs. It is still only worth $8/h to the company. So go out and find what you're worth and a company that values its work at what you're worth.

    And please don't go getting high and mighty on the administrative assistants. They have a rough job and everyone looks down on them for the most part. But the good ones keep a company running smoothly.
    Jumping on the IT blogging band wagon -- http://www.jefferyland.com/
  • blargoeblargoe Posts: 4,165Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    Let's all go form a union. That'll fix 'em greedy bastards.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 1/29/2018 - Passed 70-743 - MCSA 2016 Complete; 1/13/2018 - Passed 70-411 - MCSA 2012 complete
    Working on: Being a better coder, build/test/deploy automation fundamentals
    Future: Renew VCP (due 2/2019), possibly with an adjacent VCP or VCAP
  • cbigbrickcbigbrick Posts: 284Member
    [/quote] SNIP

    new IT workers willing to work for $6 an hour. Sure, quality would go down a lot, but with all the money they were saving on labor would makle up for it. :D[/quote]

    Do you really think that???
    And in conclusion your point was.....???

    Don't get so upset...it's just ones and zeros.
  • HeroPsychoHeroPsycho Posts: 1,940Inactive Imported Users
    binari wrote:
    I have read articles and seen on the news about how the IT industry wants more H1B visa's so they can import more high skilled IT people from india and pakistan and such places because they (bill gates among others) say there are not enough here, oh and btw they dont pay them as much as American born and legal immigrant high skilled workers already here.

    Thats fair right? Whatever the private industry wants to do, they can right?

    Lets not get into what is "fair" because that is interpretive.

    I think its fair to pay people a fair wage for work done, you dont.


    Let me get this disclosure out of the way. I have nothing against Immigrants from central and south america. Done.

    Ok, now it would not surprise me to find out that the IT industry was lobbying congress to try to get them to pass that illegal Immigrant amnesty bill last year. If it had passed, Run some of those new legal workers through a crash course and badabang! new IT workers willing to work for $6 an hour. Sure, quality would go down a lot, but with all the money they were saving on labor would makle up for it. :D

    The reality is there aren't enough skilled people in technology, mainly because our education system is failing us. It shouldn't be a big deal to find someone who can setup a network switch or router, do basic help desk or even administration, etc. Consequently, price for those types of positions are artificially high.

    Imagine going to get your oil changed, and it cost your $60 because the mechanic had to get paid $30 for his labor simply because there was an artificial shortage of people who knew how to do it.

    As a former teacher, I'm sorry, but in terms of what's more difficult, more valuable to society, etc., I think being a teacher wins everytime. What's more difficult - bending a computer or piece of hardware to your will, or getting through to 13 year olds who don't care to learn?

    Now explain to me how it's fair or right I'm making almost 2.5x what I'd be making as a teacher.

    I know what you're saying about H1B's, but from an overall perspective, IT is when you get to it supposed to be a cost-savings measure (doing work with this technology is cheaper than how we did it before) as well as a revenue generator (if I have this technology, I'll be more productive and increase profits). The best way to deal with H1B's is compete and blow the barn doors off them in skills. Bring in an H1B, and let him go up against me in soft and hard skills, and I'll destroy him or her. Bring it on!

    P.S. Not sensitive to the issue here, my first permanent IT job I lost due to outsourcing.
    Good luck to all!
  • binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    cbigbrick wrote:
    SNIP

    new IT workers willing to work for $6 an hour. Sure, quality would go down a lot, but with all the money they were saving on labor would makle up for it. :D[/quote]

    Do you really think that???[/quote]

    Of course not, I was just making an exaggerated statement.

    Of course I believe teachers should get paid significantly more that they do. But just because they are being wronged does not mean other occupations should be wronged,


    Let me ask some of you guys who have been in IT for a while a question. How much did you get paid when you started out, 0 to 2 years experience?

    maybe 15 to 17 dollars an hour? is that same amount of money, 15 to 17 dollars, worth that same today as it was back then? of course not. one of my colleagues said he had been getting paid 16 dollars an hour in his second job in IT. That was in 2001.

    I'll guess my point with this question is, that taking inflation into consideration, us guys with 1 to 2 years of experience should be getting paid more than what a comparable worker was getting paid 6 years ago.


    It shouldn't be a big deal to find someone who can setup a network switch or router, do basic help desk or even administration, etc. Consequently, price for those types of positions are artificially high.

    Why do you say that those position are artificially high? How much do you thik they should make? Is the federal minimum wage low enough for you? You talked about people doing oil changes, how much do you think they make? Probably about $15 an hour. Is changing oil difficult? Does it require a great deal of skill?
    someone who can setup a network switch or router, do basic help desk or even administration
    has more skill that someone who changes oil.


    Even at my experience level, why are people so against us make a decent wage? I think my position should get between 18-21 dollars an hour.

    Now some of you may say that yeah, but there are always others willing to take your position. and for less money. But thats true for any position, because there are always people who are looking for jobs. I also do not believe that that analogy works. constructions workers earn over $30 an hour. There are a lot of construction workers out there and im sure there are a lot who would do the same job for $20 an hour.


    There are many individuals trying to get their foot in the door in the IT world, I wonder if they know that they wont be able to make a decent living for years.

    Ok, I think I will get off the soap box now, its apparent people do not agree with me. Take care
    Doh
  • networker050184networker050184 Posts: 11,962Mod Mod
    binari wrote:
    someone who can setup a network switch or router, do basic help desk or even administration
    has more skill that someone who changes oil.

    Someone who changes oil has a different skill than someone in IT, but just because its different doesn't make it less. I can set up a network with my eyes shut, but I don't change my own oil. I could if I learned, but I'm sure a mechanic could set up a network if he took the time to learn.
    binari wrote:
    Even at my experience level, why are people so against us make a decent wage? I think my position should get between 18-21 dollars an hour.

    If you think you are worth that much then don't take a job for less. Like Plantwiz stated you are the one who chooses what you will work for.

    binari wrote:
    There are many individuals trying to get their foot in the door in the IT world, I wonder if they know that they wont be able to make a decent living for years.

    How long it takes you to earn a decent living in any field is up to you. Some people work entry level helpdesk for years griping about the same things as you. Others just use it as a stepping stone and are off to bigger and better things in no time. Which ever you choose is up to you.

    Jut keep in mind there are many factors in rising up in IT and having technical knowledge is probably a smaller part than you think. It really has more to do with your interpersonal skills and if you can convince someone to give you that shot to move up. No one was born with experience, everyone has been in your shoes at one time.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • HeroPsychoHeroPsycho Posts: 1,940Inactive Imported Users
    binari wrote:

    Of course not, I was just making an exaggerated statement.

    Of course I believe teachers should get paid significantly more that they do. But just because they are being wronged does not mean other occupations should be wronged,


    Let me ask some of you guys who have been in IT for a while a question. How much did you get paid when you started out, 0 to 2 years experience?

    maybe 15 to 17 dollars an hour? is that same amount of money, 15 to 17 dollars, worth that same today as it was back then? of course not. one of my colleagues said he had been getting paid 16 dollars an hour in his second job in IT. That was in 2001.

    I'll guess my point with this question is, that taking inflation into consideration, us guys with 1 to 2 years of experience should be getting paid more than what a comparable worker was getting paid 6 years ago.


    It shouldn't be a big deal to find someone who can setup a network switch or router, do basic help desk or even administration, etc. Consequently, price for those types of positions are artificially high.

    Why do you say that those position are artificially high? How much do you thik they should make? Is the federal minimum wage low enough for you? You talked about people doing oil changes, how much do you think they make? Probably about $15 an hour. Is changing oil difficult? Does it require a great deal of skill?
    someone who can setup a network switch or router, do basic help desk or even administration
    has more skill that someone who changes oil.


    Even at my experience level, why are people so against us make a decent wage? I think my position should get between 18-21 dollars an hour.

    Now some of you may say that yeah, but there are always others willing to take your position. and for less money. But thats true for any position, because there are always people who are looking for jobs. I also do not believe that that analogy works. constructions workers earn over $30 an hour. There are a lot of construction workers out there and im sure there are a lot who would do the same job for $20 an hour.


    There are many individuals trying to get their foot in the door in the IT world, I wonder if they know that they wont be able to make a decent living for years.

    It's not that I'm against people who enter into IT to make a decent wage. I just see a heck of a lot of people in IT making good money and don't know anything and don't do anything. I see guys who think they should be paid big time because they can VLAN a switch. VLANing a switch is not rocket science; why do we think that it is? Not to belittle it, I don't think being able to create AD user accounts and mailboxes is rocket science either, and if that's all I could do with Exchange, I don't think I should be making the money I do, either.

    One contract I was on, they hired a new administrator, and he was the absolute best candidate they could find by far, and I mean head over heals better, and I remember thinking, "well, at least this guy knows what Active Directory is". He blew up payroll's print server on payday, had the rest of the team get involved to fix it, and then went to lunch. Dude was getting paid 90K/yr. He thought there were still BDC's in Active Directory. I mean, seriously, WTFBBQ?!

    I have the utmost respect for good car mechanics, and good ones should make good money, and a good admin should make good money, too. But help desk is a stepping stone to that. A dude who just changes oil and that's it? They shouldn't be paid big money, either.

    FYI, how did I get into IT? My first jobs I got paid nothing, as I volunteered as an intern in my free time to get experience. It doesn't get cheaper than that. But it paid off because I get systems engineer level experience, and after a few years of that plus side work I did get paid for, I landed my first IT job in 2004 making $72K/yr.

    $21/hr = $42000/yr. If you ask me, that's fine if you're in a high cost of living area, but for an average for entry level positions in IT? Yes, that's high. Starting salary for a teacher is about $40000/yr, and being a teacher requires a college degree, sometimes even a master's.

    And teacher salary starting out is actually pretty good comparatively speaking when contrasted with other professions. They actually get screwed from lack of raises. I started out as a teacher in 2000 making $32K/yr (with a master's degree), and when I left 4 years later, I was making $35K/yr.

    So no, I don't agree with you, respectfully of course.
    Good luck to all!
  • blargoeblargoe Posts: 4,165Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    I started at $10/hr, moved up to $14 after six months and stayed there until I took my first jr. admin job. Way uphill from there. It's just the way it is.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 1/29/2018 - Passed 70-743 - MCSA 2016 Complete; 1/13/2018 - Passed 70-411 - MCSA 2012 complete
    Working on: Being a better coder, build/test/deploy automation fundamentals
    Future: Renew VCP (due 2/2019), possibly with an adjacent VCP or VCAP
  • Darthn3ssDarthn3ss Posts: 1,096Member
    blargoe wrote:
    That's the market pay rate for someone in a position such as yourself.

    1. There's a thousand more newbs/entry level just like you that would jump right in to your position for that amount of pay.

    2. Whether or not your skills are the same as others, they are taking a risk on someone who isn't seasoned in putting them in practice and dealing with things when they don't go according to the book.

    3. Your worth should go up substantially once you prove yourself over 1-3 years.
    agreed with number 1, 31k is a wet dream for me right now.

    lol.
    Fantastic. The project manager is inspired.

    In Progress: 70-640, 70-685
  • AlexMRAlexMR Posts: 275Member
    binari,

    I think yu want too much without committing too much. You only have ntry level certs and two years of experience.

    I am going to end this with my contribution to you without too much rhetoric: Run a search for "Senior VoIP network engineer" in monster and try to find one job offering for less than 95K/year. I think I just clicked on more than 15links and I found none. Not even one. Most of those are 100-135K/year. They require a CCVP, 5 years of experience and most times a masters or a B.S.

    If you are not an Ivy League Master then making 6 figures is going to take a lot more effort than a couple certifications that you can get (theoretically) in a few weeks of work. Sorry but life is not that easy...
    Training/Studying for....CCNP (BSCI) and some MS.
  • binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    you guys sound like a bunch of rich republicans.

    Lets put this into perpective. I pick some obscure corporation. Check out what thier CEO makes every year:

    Walter F. Ulloa
    Chief Executive Officer
    Entravision Communications Corporation

    The proxy statement for Entravision Communications Corporation uses the new SEC executive compensation rules.

    In 2007, Walter F. Ulloa raked in $1,268,753 in total compensation according to the SEC.

    -source-http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm?tkr=EVC&pg=1


    I could pick some more outrageous figures like this:

    In 2007, Francis S. Blake raked in $8,282,868 in total compensation according to the SEC. According to the AFL-CIO's calculation method*, this CEO raked in $7,641,426 in total 2007 compensation.


    or:

    In 2007, Lawrence J. Ellison raked in $34,968,104 in total compensation according to the SEC. According to the AFL-CIO's calculation method*, this CEO raked in $61,180,524 in total 2007 compensation.


    And you complaining about someone wishing to get paid 40k a year? lol.
    The chief executive officers of large U.S. companies averaged $10.8 million in total compensation in 2006, more than 364 times the pay of the average U.S. worker, according to the latest survey by the United for a Fair Economy.

    so the guys at the top get paid 364 times what average workers get paid, and im asking for too much?

    im sorry, I really didnt want to further this thread but I had to respond.
    Doh
  • dynamikdynamik Posts: 12,314Banned
    I'm pretty sure everyone here thinks those salaries are ridiculous. I don't see how one person's salary, in a completely different area, is related to yours. Do you think a janitor working at a large company has a right to demand more just because the CEO makes a ton? I don't. He deserves to get paid whatever is fair for his skills. What other people make is irrelevant. I'm not saying you don't deserve to get paid more, but that isn't a valid argument.
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