Army Questions

the_Grinch

I know there are a couple of guys on this forum who are/have been in the Army. I'll give you some basic background on myself and then ask my questions. First, I'm graduating in Dec with my BS. I am one of the unlucky many that got to go to a great school, but had to take out lots of loans to afford it. I've learned first hand that the American dream is a little flawed (not bad, just flawed). So as I begin the job search I continually come back to the military. I have numerous friends and family in the military and generally they like it a lot. I'm looking at the Army because they offer coming in as an E4 since I'll have the college degree. Also, they offer a lot more in bonuses then any other branch does. Such as $4000 for a college degree and I'd probably would find something with a high bonus job wise. I have taken the ASVAB on two occasions and scored an overall score of 92 and 93 respectively (dunno the line scores).

My question is what is the take home pay (after taxes) for an E4? I've looked at the sites and have seen what it is before taxes. Also, generally speaking (I know there is a point system), how long does it take to make E5 if you come in as an E4? All of my student loans would be deferred until I get out of active duty (I'd still be paying them anyway because I'd like to get out and have no student loans left) and my federal loans would be paid off by the Army (only have about $20k if that from the Fed. As for the why not go to be an officer whatever the job is I select I want to at least have to chance to do it opposed to being a manager. Thanks in advance!

LarryDaMan

You would probably have to wait 9-12 months to be eligible for E-5, and then you have to be recommended by your supervisor. Taxes vary because some states have no state tax for military (FL, TX), and others screw you anyway (MA).

I say go for it! I did almost 10 years, used almost all of my GI Bill, and gained a ton of leadership experience and management skills. Just do something you like and get it in writing before you sign anything. I worked in Satellite Communications and enjoyed it for the most part.

Good luck.

btowntech

What are you thinking about doing in the Army? IT wise I thought Navy or Air Force looked better with what they have to offer. I was an E4 when I got out back in 2002 but I was Army National Guard so it's hard to compare pay. Make sure whatever the Army offers you that you get it in writing. To bad my bonus wasn't anything compared to what they are offering now. Best of luck to you!

Mrock4

FWIW, I'm an active army E5, with 4 years in, with my MOS as 25B. I currently work in a network management office doing strictly networking.

To elaborate on what Larry said...

If you come in as an E4, the absolute soonest you could make E5 is currently 18 months..there is a time in service (TIS) requirement. Realistically, I'd say expect 2-2 1/2 years till E5. Not bad either way you look at it. The point system varies by MOS. Some jobs promote faster than others. It all comes down to the needs of the Army. For example, an MOS that is being phased out is obviously not going to promote as fast as one that they need to fill (ie: truck driver, infantry, etc).


Your pay will not only vary based on state taxes, but also if you stay on or off post. I dug up my old Leave & Earnings statement (LES to those military folk) from when I was an E4 for you...here's the breakdown.


Base pay: $1949.10 (3 years service at the time..it will be less for you- $1758 to be exact.)
BAS: $294.43
BAH: $8.10
COLA: $165.61

TOTAL: $2417.24 ...after state taxes and federal taxes, I was making $977 per check as an E4 staying in the barracks. If I had stayed off post, add about $1,600/ month to that..although I'd be paying rent, but if you find a good deal..you could save a lot.

BAS is $$ for your food..and COLA is a Cost of living allownace..I was in hawaii, so I made extra.


As an E5 now with 4 years in, I make $1,225/check after paying missouri state and federal taxes. Bear in mind, since I am an E5, and authorized to stay off-post, I make an extra $1,200 for my housing allowance. If you're married you will most likely stay off post.

Hope that helps. For whatever it's worth, I would look more at making sure you get the job you want, as opposed to the pay. If you take a certain job because of a bonus or something, generally you won't end up too happy.


Oh, and I also love what I do!

oo_snoopy

the_Grinch wrote:

I know there are a couple of guys on this forum who are/have been in the Army. I'll give you some basic background on myself and then ask my questions. First, I'm graduating in Dec with my BS. I am one of the unlucky many that got to go to a great school, but had to take out lots of loans to afford it. I've learned first hand that the American dream is a little flawed (not bad, just flawed). So as I begin the job search I continually come back to the military. I have numerous friends and family in the military and generally they like it a lot. I'm looking at the Army because they offer coming in as an E4 since I'll have the college degree. Also, they offer a lot more in bonuses then any other branch does. Such as $4000 for a college degree and I'd probably would find something with a high bonus job wise. I have taken the ASVAB on two occasions and scored an overall score of 92 and 93 respectively (dunno the line scores).

My question is what is the take home pay (after taxes) for an E4? I've looked at the sites and have seen what it is before taxes. Also, generally speaking (I know there is a point system), how long does it take to make E5 if you come in as an E4? All of my student loans would be deferred until I get out of active duty (I'd still be paying them anyway because I'd like to get out and have no student loans left) and my federal loans would be paid off by the Army (only have about $20k if that from the Fed. As for the why not go to be an officer whatever the job is I select I want to at least have to chance to do it opposed to being a manager. Thanks in advance!

With a BS you should be able to do ROTC and start as an officer no?

Mrock4

Read the end of his post where he talks about wanting to "do" and not be a manager. I thought the same before I read that.

And since he already has a BS, ROTC wouldn't make any sense, since it's a program you take part in while working on your degree. He would be an OCS Candidate.

the_Grinch

Thanks for all the replies guys! No being an Officer for me, at least not at first. I tend to believe that if I was in long enough to consider being an Officer that I would go to be a Warrant Officer. As for what MOS I tend to jump back and forth because there are a lot of things that interest me:

25N - Nodal Network Systems Operator/Maintainers (seems to have to do with networking and voip, though I have heard various things, such as getting the training and then doing convoy escorts)

31B - Military Police (I am hoping to get out and get into computer crime investigations since I have been going to school for computer security and 31B is a good base to become a 31D CID Special Agent)

33W - (I've heard that they deal with all aspects of computing in intelligence and that its a good position for computer security)

35F - Intelligence Analyst (another area that has interest me)

37F - Psychological Operations Specialist (another position that interest me due to language requirement and while I know it deals really more with marketing I believe it to be a great skillset to have once out)

13F - Fire Support Specialist (dunno seemed like a cool job)

While I understand when people say get a job you like because you'll be doing it for years, I am really looking at it differently. First and foremost, any job serving my country in whatever way I find to be most important on my list. Second, I really want to get out of the debt I am in and if this gets me a leg up then I will wash dishes if that has the biggest bonus. The pay for an E4 (thanks mrock) should afford me the ability to pay off my debt within 6 to 10 years. Personally, I would hope to make E5 faster then 2 years (I've always tended to move up quickly at any job), but it is what it is.

Another question, any real chance of an E4 getting off base housing? I've lived on my own before without issue and wouldn't mind being able to do it again. But I understand....Army way or to the stockade Thanks again!

Mrock4

On-post isn't that bad, depending on where you are at. Here's the deal why you can be a super soldier, but still not get promoted. Your unit sends you to a promotion board. If you do well, you're considered E4 promotable. This means that once you make the cutoff score (comes out each month) for your MOS, you're promoted. You can be perfect, but if your job promotes slowly, you may be waiting. Having a degree is a huge up for you, however, since that's the area most people hurt the most on. I didn't say you wouldn't- definitely shoot for it, but it's kind of hit or miss sometimes.


I'll tell you what I know about those MOS'...

25N- This is the role I've worked in for most of my military career. Great job...as for doing convoy's..that's ANY MOS. It depends on where you go. I've seen Air Force weather guys going on convoy's with us. It doesn't happen terribly often with 25N's, since they're in need right now. Be prepared for anything regardless of the job you choose. You'd be amazed at the impact your duty station/unit has on your job. In Hawaii I spent most of my time messing with humvee's and spending time in the field (and Iraq), and now, I am doing strictly network management. It varies. The points are somewhat high for 25N, but it's not impossible. Once again, you're at a big advantage. I'd say if you want to do anything related to networking after the military, make 25N you're #1 choice or 25B.

31B- Lots of guard duty and paperwork.

13F- You'll either be in the field a lot, or you will be stuck at a desk, I've seen both.


I don't know anybody personally that is a 37F, but it seems like a very cool job.

Also keep in mind, you'll get raises yearly (3% lately..), plus Time-In-Service raises (usually 2 yr, 4 yr, 6, etc), in addition to your progression through the ranks.

E4's stay off post a lot, it just depends on the unit, and the base. In Hawaii our Brigade commander decided only E5's would stay off post when we got back from Iraq. Before Iraq, there were a ton of E4's staying off post. It also depends on the job to a certain extent. If you become a 13F, your quality of life will surely not match that of any of those other MOS'...

The key is to get off post, and get a roommate that you can live with..then bank the extra BAH!!

Sorry, I type a lot with this stuff. I like trying to give others more knowledge then I had going in.

the_Grinch

Man, continue to impart us with that wisdom...I like to be as in the know as possible! I'm at a crossroads now as I am in the process of getting a job, but it will take awhile before I know if I will get it. I'm about 90% sure that I at least want to do the Reserves, which if that is the case I'd go split op because my best friend is getting married in May. But if things fall through then I am leaning towards active duty. But I hear you on everyone pulls convoy duty at one point...soldier first right?

Vassago68

Mrock4 wrote:

FWIW, I'm an active army E5, with 4 years in, with my MOS as 25B. I currently work in a network management office doing strictly networking.

To elaborate on what Larry said...

If you come in as an E4, the absolute soonest you could make E5 is currently 18 months..there is a time in service (TIS) requirement. Realistically, I'd say expect 2-2 1/2 years till E5. Not bad either way you look at it. The point system varies by MOS. Some jobs promote faster than others. It all comes down to the needs of the Army. For example, an MOS that is being phased out is obviously not going to promote as fast as one that they need to fill (ie: truck driver, infantry, etc).

Actually, it is 16 months. I'd recommend you read up on AR 600-8-19.

"16 months TIS and 4 months TIMIG for those who have been recommended to compete in the secondary zone."

Mrock4 wrote:

Your pay will not only vary based on state taxes, but also if you stay on or off post. I dug up my old Leave & Earnings statement (LES to those military folk) from when I was an E4 for you...here's the breakdown.

Mrock is correct. When you get in the best thing you can do is change your home state to FL, TX or IL. Find someone you know in that state, and use their address. You will be exempt from state taxes then.

Mrock4 wrote:

Base pay: $1949.10 (3 years service at the time..it will be less for you- $1758 to be exact.)
BAS: $294.43
BAH: $8.10
COLA: $165.61

TOTAL: $2417.24 ...after state taxes and federal taxes, I was making $977 per check as an E4 staying in the barracks. If I had stayed off post, add about $1,600/ month to that..although I'd be paying rent, but if you find a good deal..you could save a lot.

BAS is $$ for your food..and COLA is a Cost of living allownace..I was in hawaii, so I made extra.


As an E5 now with 4 years in, I make $1,225/check after paying missouri state and federal taxes. Bear in mind, since I am an E5, and authorized to stay off-post, I make an extra $1,200 for my housing allowance. If you're married you will most likely stay off post.

Hope that helps. For whatever it's worth, I would look more at making sure you get the job you want, as opposed to the pay. If you take a certain job because of a bonus or something, generally you won't end up too happy.


Oh, and I also love what I do!

I am a Staff Sergeant on Active Duty in the 25B MOS. Do I like my job? Yes. Do I like my assignment? No. Depending on where you get assigned, you could be working in a Help Desk, CSSAMO (Combat Service Support Automations Maintanance Office), a Battalion S-6, SysAdmin, NetOps, going TDY to do Auditing and Penetration, etc. The school for us is only a little over 4 months long and they basically cram everything in. You'll get 1 week of routers, 1 of switches, 1 of Exchange, 1 of Servers, 1 of Unix, 1 of Solaris, etc. They cover a little of everything you do in the MOS so you aren't totally clueless when you get to your unit, but your unit will be training you when you get there most likely.

If you still are interested, I'll let you know the 3 biggest things in the Army that will get you far. PT - If you can run, and do very well on your PT test, life will be a lot easier. Attitude - As long as you are laid back and go with the flow on everything no matter how screwed up things are (I've yet to see things implemented the way they should be done, IE Fiber gets coupled rather then spliced, forget a splice box...try an ammo can in the ground to protect the splice/couple.)

And lastly, as long as you look like you are always trying to learn new things (even things not part of your job) like the tactical radios if you get into a BCT, and things of that sort.

Make sure from day one that you are in though that you are working on correspondance courses. Since you will be maxed on Civilian Ed, that is the best thing you can do. It will make getting E-5 a lot easier if you start early.

I've been in 12 years and I don't regret any of it. I would do it all over again.

Vassago68

the_Grinch wrote:

Thanks for all the replies guys! No being an Officer for me, at least not at first. I tend to believe that if I was in long enough to consider being an Officer that I would go to be a Warrant Officer. As for what MOS I tend to jump back and forth because there are a lot of things that interest me:

25N - Nodal Network Systems Operator/Maintainers (seems to have to do with networking and voip, though I have heard various things, such as getting the training and then doing convoy escorts)

This MOS is getting kinda blurred with 25B and 25F to be honest. I've seen any of those 3 MOS's work in the other's slot. In fact, we have a 25N working in our NetOps.

the_Grinch wrote:

31B - Military Police (I am hoping to get out and get into computer crime investigations since I have been going to school for computer security and 31B is a good base to become a 31D CID Special Agent)

Depends, before the war this was a kinda fun job. But you have to realize that the MP's have a big scope of details when it comes to wartime. I believe they have one of the most broad spectrum jobs right now. There is no telling what you might do. Prisoner proccessing, giving tickets out on Anaconda, etc.

the_Grinch wrote:

33W - (I've heard that they deal with all aspects of computing in intelligence and that its a good position for computer security)

Great Job, but again, depends on if they have a mission for you. We have a whole unit of these guys repairing printers and crap like that here because they have no mission. Talk about some mad people.

the_Grinch wrote:

35F - Intelligence Analyst (another area that has interest me)

Haven't heard anything bad about this, but I haven't heard much about this one at all.

the_Grinch wrote:

37F - Psychological Operations Specialist (another position that interest me due to language requirement and while I know it deals really more with marketing I believe it to be a great skillset to have once out)

I was considering dropping a packet for this a year ago when they were standing up a new unit at Bragg. They work independant a lot, and have to have great people skills. You will need more schooling for a language. The only down side is they go outside the wire a ton.

the_Grinch wrote:

13F - Fire Support Specialist (dunno seemed like a cool job)

Artillary huh? Big boom is awesome, but I've seen more of these take up Infantry roles rather then do their job. There isn't a huge demand for these guys in combat. 1 Platoon here on my FOB covers down on 3 FOB's (we are all within 5 miles, so the guns can shoot over the other FOB's) I've talked to a lot of these guys and most were kicking in doors last deployment.

the_Grinch wrote:

While I understand when people say get a job you like because you'll be doing it for years, I am really looking at it differently. First and foremost, any job serving my country in whatever way I find to be most important on my list. Second, I really want to get out of the debt I am in and if this gets me a leg up then I will wash dishes if that has the biggest bonus. The pay for an E4 (thanks mrock) should afford me the ability to pay off my debt within 6 to 10 years. Personally, I would hope to make E5 faster then 2 years (I've always tended to move up quickly at any job), but it is what it is.

Do whatever you want. Get that gung ho stuff out of your system and then later you can either get out or reclass. I've personally been a 25Q, 25S and now a 25B. I love working in the Signal Corps, and just wanted to see a lot of different things. I feel this gives me an advantage later in networking as well, since I know more about these areas then most do.

the_Grinch wrote:

Another question, any real chance of an E4 getting off base housing? I've lived on my own before without issue and wouldn't mind being able to do it again. But I understand....Army way or to the stockade Thanks again!

Mrock said it right. It depends on the unit. I've NEVER seen E-4's off post unless they paid for it out of pocket. There is always room for soldiers in the barracks. E-5's depends on the post. Some are on post, some are off post. A lot of things come into play. A lot of things will depend on unit policy.

Mrock4

Vassago68 wrote:

This MOS is getting kinda blurred with 25B and 25F to be honest. I've seen any of those 3 MOS's work in the other's slot. In fact, we have a 25N working in our NetOps.

In Iraq, our NetOps were actually slotted to be all 25N's, so this is very true. It just happened that our 25N's were working in the JNN, so that's how 25B's got put in that role. I loved NetOps.

Thank you for correcting me on the TIS thing...I came in as E1, so I had no chance of making it anyways!

I will say big SSG..if you ever get a chance..Macdill AFB = "The" assignment for a 25B..

Also, I don't know how often you check HRC, but the Army is taking networking folks for the Army Network Warfare BN. Sounds pretty awesome.

networker050184

Good advice from these guys so I don't have much to add.

I will second that 25N is a great MOS that can lead to some very good training, but like anything else you get out of it what you put in. I know plenty of 25Bs and 25Ns who don't know a server from a switch. Its sad really, but hey it was just more training for me

the_Grinch

Thanks for all the help everyone. Got a lot to think about and consider...

Vassago68

Mrock4 wrote:

Vassago68 wrote:

This MOS is getting kinda blurred with 25B and 25F to be honest. I've seen any of those 3 MOS's work in the other's slot. In fact, we have a 25N working in our NetOps.

In Iraq, our NetOps were actually slotted to be all 25N's, so this is very true. It just happened that our 25N's were working in the JNN, so that's how 25B's got put in that role. I loved NetOps.

Thank you for correcting me on the TIS thing...I came in as E1, so I had no chance of making it anyways!

I will say big SSG..if you ever get a chance..Macdill AFB = "The" assignment for a 25B..

Also, I don't know how often you check HRC, but the Army is taking networking folks for the Army Network Warfare BN. Sounds pretty awesome.

I wish I could. Already called Ms. Thompson and was told we are on a fence in 3ID. My BDE is over staffed with E-6's but I'll be stuck in a CSSAMO, E-5 slot. Needless to say, I only have 28 months left in. I'll be getting out at just under 14 years. It seems the Army either sends the same ppl to divisions all the time, and the others to nice assignments all the time.

I've been in 5 different divisions in 11 years and 5 deployments now and I still can't get out.

It's ok though, I enjoy the extra cash flow, just wish I had better job experiences as far as assignments.