The "IT skills shortage" in Scotland is a lie.

cisco_trooper

Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind when they talk about IT careers. Once you've put in your time and show that you can actually do the job, your salary skyrockets. A dishwasher may get a $0.25/hr raise every year or two. I don't know about everyone else, but my raises are multiple thousands of dollars every year right now. Granted, I expect that to slow down a little bit, but it is still fantastic compared to most other industries/occupations.

I guess the point is that you can expect to start low, especially in this economy. But you can also expect to be rewarded once you've proven yourself.

Kaminsky

I can't decide whether you are winding us up or you have just been under your mother's aprons, with people telling you how brilliant you are with computers, for too long.. I'll give you the benefit...

You did the 4 semesters and got your CCNA... that is one hell of an achievement. Well done! no pi$$ take... really.. well done. Hard graft but you did it. A lot of MCSEs fail miserably all over the world when they try.

However, your mistake was to belive that the CCNA would be the willy wonka magic ticket. You are are now coming to terms with the real world, in that there are quite a lot of us who have been doing this sh.t before you were even born. <shock horror you didn't invent IT>

OK cheap shot ! Appologies!

The fact of the matter in the UK right now is that normally there would be a standard employment cycle where people leave and people join. Contractors come and go.

Now we are in a recession, all that changes and HR/personnel hold off from replacing vacant posts. Stafff decide to stay where they are and carry on paying the bills instead of trying to climb further by hopping to the next job... just in case. Whole reams of contractor jobs get 1 week notice from the bigger companies... (90 in one evening where I work and that was just my old department of 650+)<they cannot complain... they knew the risks all along whilst they were taking the 1.5 times the pay of the permy they were sitting next to for the last 2 years... they knew the risks... simple as! > ... I did when I spent 4 years as a contractor. Expansion/replacement type projects get cancelled by the finance directors in order to stock pile that money for the company just in case... <Bear in mind that plane fares to Iceland to get your savings out are not cheap when you are sending out your whole finance team and as many solicitors as it may take>

Basically, it is a really a crap time to be trying to get a job in IT. Hell, not just IT... every profession is feeling the pinch in accordance with the above model. However, trying at the first rung might be a lot easier than going for that Network Manager role straight off the bat....

One good tip for you, and any forum member in the uk, if you are looking in the local newspaper for IT jobs, think of it this way. If you were the IT manager/director, do you think you could get a good haul of potential candidates by just sticking a cheap advert in the local free paper ? With the ever more localness of free/local newspapers, would you be muppet enough to think that there is a wealth of IT pros living undiscovered right on your doorstep ?
To be fair, there was a nice one that came up 5 minutes walk from where I live but that is a 1st in 15 years since leaving university with my shiny CS scroll in hand. I didn't get a look in for this job so there must have been some seriously qualified and experienced applicants from further affield the got selected for interview. This was a shocker for me as I am pretty much high up in my field with a degree and 15 years experience doing the job across a variety of roles... far more than they were actually wanting in the job ad.

Forget fish or monster as you will just get innundated by crap with wannabe one man band recruitment types trying to sell you off and make 20% of your pay whilst sitting at home looking for the next muppet looking for a job.

I only ever use www.jobserve.uk when looking for a job which is a site where all the serious recruitment companies post their opportunites to and this site provides a single point of reference for the IT pro/newbie looking for a new role. Look up the role you are interested in and phone up whatever recruitment company is posting the job ad.

Seriously... local newspapers, fish/monster just show you are not putting enough effort into getting a job as you put in for your study for the CCNA and make it look like you are sitting back and waiting for it all to come to you. Try putting in seach strings like IT and Edinborough.


Great posts by Nel, skrprune and malcybood in this thread.

freddy77777

cisco_trooper wrote:

"It's simple really; you can memorize a bunch of crap, or you can take the time to learn something" - yours truly


cisco_trooper you’re highly articulate you’re comment is excellent I couldn’t have put it better myself

Yours Freddy

Kaminsky

skrpune wrote:

There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams.

Not true.. a lot of them are just useless ! [ dare I mention the prince 2 combination ? ]

malcybood

Kaminsky wrote:

skrpune wrote:

There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams.

Not true.. a lot of them are just useless ! [ dare I mention the prince 2 combination ? ]

prince 2 procedures and documentation.....UGH let's not go down that road / discussion! LOL

"OK that will be 15 days project management you require for that switch upgrade mr customer because we follow the prince 2 methodology".....bleugh!

p.s. no offence to any pm's just a recent experience i've had was a joke! I know it does work, in moderation though!

cisco_trooper

freddy77777 wrote:

The number of computing students in universities and colleges has dropped almost 50% since 2001.
This was reported in the media Jun 2008.
Why has the number of students dropped? Maybe student in the know are voting by there feet and studying other topics. Is there really any need to study IT anymore since lots of graduates find themselves unemployable? Are IT degrees now as worthless as media studies?
From my own personal experience having certificates like the CompTIA A+, N+ and the CCNA are as useful as used toilet paper when applying for a job, l know people with HND computer studies who cannot get anything. Maybe it’s just Scotland but l studied IT for 4 years only to find it a total waste of time.

Don't give up on it. You obviously have put some time and energy into this, which tells me that you enjoyed the subject matter and were willing to make sacrifices to put yourself in a position to be successful. Sorry about my earlier rant on college grads, believe me, that wasn't directed at you, I have no reason to direct something like that at you.

The bottom line right now is that the economy sucks. It sucks bad. Not just in the US. Not just in China. Everywhere. That being said, it is a pretty global statement to say that you're just going to have to start at the bottom. It won't really even need to be very long. My first gig was 6 months or a year, and then my pay doubled, and at the time I didn't have anything but a couple MCPs. With a CCNA you SHOULD fare better, even moreso if everything you learned "stuck."

It is an unfortunate time to break into IT. I remember having a hell of a time getting in, but once your in and you prove yourself, your golden. Don't give up..

freddy77777

skrpune wrote:

There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams. and

Kaminsky wrote:

Not true.. a lot of them are just useless ! [ dare I mention the prince 2 combination ? ]



The Cisco network academy was a good experience, l thoroughly enjoyed the course and would recommend it to anyone who wishes to study but seeing these negative comments about dull net workers and those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams just reinforces my view about IT in general ‘is that it’s full of moronic retarded trolls’ who couldn’t make an intelligent comment unless they where insulting people.
Since passing the CCNA in April I’ve been unable to get any IT job.
‘The truth is l forget even the basic commands, now l know that forgetting the commands immediately makes me useless and unemployable but then again why should l remember all that command line programming Cisco iso, should l go to bed dreaming about OSPF or maybe just EIGRP and lets not forget the plain old access-list ‘then again l could easily study my CCNA booklet in case l ever got a job ‘it would take me minutes to remember again

Please don’t comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make

freddy77777

cisco_trooper

Thank you for you’re refreshing and interesting comment IT’S nice to read intelligent comments after some of the crap that’s been posted

Kaminsky

freddy77777 wrote:

... just reinforces my view about IT in general ‘is that it’s full of moronic retarded trolls’ who couldn’t make an intelligent comment unless they where insulting people.

Since passing the CCNA in April I’ve been unable to get any IT job.
‘The truth is l forget even the basic commands, now l know that forgetting the commands immediately makes me useless and unemployable but then again why should l remember all that command line programming Cisco iso, should l go to bed dreaming about OSPF or maybe just EIGRP and lets not forget the plain old access-list ‘then again l could easily study my CCNA booklet in case l ever got a job ‘it would take me minutes to remember again

Please don’t comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make

Have you considered a career in fried food ?

freddy77777

Kaminsky Wrot:

Have you thought about a career in fried food ?

Read his Forum Little happy dance

2 * 3725 + aim nm-1a-3e
3 * 3550 48
1 * 3550 24
2 * 2950 24

All rescued from the skip [seriously.. no joke] by yours trully... ya gotta love muppet managers ! Out with the old .... In with the new .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Maybe you should try a career as a bin man duties include:Scavenging through commercial rubbish bins and skips

mikej412

freddy77777 wrote:

then again l could easily study my CCNA booklet in case l ever got a job ‘it would take me minutes to remember again

The only problem with that is that there probably will be CCNAs competing with you for the jobs who don't need an "open book" interview.

freddy77777 wrote:

Please don’t comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make

: I don't see it listed in your profile. Exactly where is your forum?

networker050184

You are not the only person that has been here to complain about how they can't find a job and their certifications are useless. Maybe if you put half the effort you put into complaining into searching for a job you wouldn't be in this situation. IMO certifications are there to verify your experience not substitute so having the cert with no experience is pretty much uselsess.

You have to look at it from the employers side. Would you want to hire someone to work on your infrastructure who has never done it before? I know I wouldn't with all the money that depends on IT resources these days....


Also remember everyone started somewhere. If we all did it so can you with a little effort and determination.

nel

OK, lets not get personal.

Freddy > your just having a bad time at the moment. Dont let it get you down! seriously if you have to ask yourself > do i want to work in IT? asnwer it honestly and make sure you make the right choice. Weigh up your options and choose your path.

If i were you start looking for a support role > desktop support / helpdesk work. Its a good start to get your foundations. then continue working in what interests you and keep going. keep moving up and taking the opportunities. The experiance on top of your certs and degree will be valuable in a few years to come and will assist you in landing your job you desire.

Its going to take time mate but most things do in life.

Kaminsky

freddy77777 wrote:

Kaminsky Wrot:

Have you thought about a career in fried food ?

Read his Forum Little happy dance

2 * 3725 + aim nm-1a-3e
3 * 3550 48
1 * 3550 24
2 * 2950 24

All rescued from the skip [seriously.. no joke] by yours trully... ya gotta love muppet managers ! Out with the old .... In with the new .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Maybe you should try a career as a bin man duties include:Scavenging through commercial rubbish bins and skips

Twit .. put that list through google or cisco then come back with the binman joke !


You are new to a very popular forum full of all kinds of people both students and at at varying levels of in the job and doing! Initially you have had a bad reaction but you should put that down to a sign of the times and the initial petulance of your post. However, you have also had an upsurge of help and advice from mainly UK people , most with mamy years ahead of where you are starting out from right now. Seriously.. think about it... Do you really think you are the first or am I just being fished in ?

We've all tried and tried to help you with advice and you have just got pi$$y. So .. go do it all on your own and tell the whole world just how bad IT is. It would be very easy for any of us on here to just **** on you with l33t sp33k ( you want that go to a lesser board ) but from your initial post, we can see your potential and we want to advise as we were all exactly where you are right now a long time ago.

If you want to be a prima donna, stop initiating such juicy threads

cisco_trooper

mikej412 wrote:

: I don't see it listed in your profile. Exactly where is your forum?

freddy77777

7/-/4l/lx j0(_) ph02 1l/l ph021l/l6 l/l3

freddy77777

Admittedly l did dream about the path of gold after completing my CCNA but alas l find only a dirt track and it’s constantly raining. There’s no signposts to guide me and I’ve been informed that the CCNA job market is in a loop which I’m afraid I’m not in so jobs are scarce for sheeple people like me. I’m happy you find yourselves so successful

networker050184

freddy77777 wrote:

Admittedly l did dream about the path of gold after completing my CCNA but alas l find only a dirt track and it’s constantly raining. There’s no signposts to guide me and I’ve been informed that the CCNA job market is in a loop which I’m afraid I’m not in so jobs are scarce for sheeple people like me. I’m happy you find yourselves so successful

I think that is your problem right there. There isn't a "CCNA job market." The CCNA is just a certification. There will be some people who care about certifications and others that do not. I'm sure you heard stories about getting your CCNA and making the big bucks, but it just doesn't work that way. Once you get into the field you will realize certifications are not as big a part of the field as you may think. They help a lot, but in the end experience is king and that only comes with time. No certification or degree can give you experience.

gorebrush

Fred, you're attitude, sucks.

That is all.

tech-airman

freddy77777,

Are you familiar with the Cisco Partner Locator tool? You can use it to help you find some Cisco Partner companies near you to look for employment with. I hope this becomes at least a light at the end of the tunnel for you.

1. Cisco Partner Locator - Advanced Search - http://tools.cisco.com/WWChannels/LOCATR/openAdvanceSearch.do

freddy77777

tech-airman

Thanks for the advise i'll check it out

skrpune

freddy77777 wrote:

IT’S nice to read intelligent comments after some of the crap that’s been posted

freddy77777 wrote:

Please don’t comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make

Excuse me? If that's the attitude you're bringing to your job search, then I can see why you're having issues. Sorry to be so blunt, but you're just flat out being rude. You've gotten some very intelligent and helpful feedback from folks who are experienced, and you choose to ignore it and call it crap (and called us trolls to boot...how sweet!) because it doesn't align with your negative attitude.

And by the way, if you're going to hurl insults about other posters' comments, it's best to do it in full sentences with proper grammar. I believe you were trying to say "...have something articulate and intelligent to say" or "...have an articulate and intelligent comment to make."

kurosaki00

I finished my major in may, I spent 4 months looking for a job, and the only thing that called was "new(changed so no one get sued) navy".
Riiight..
A clothing store for a guy who just graduated from a major in IT.

I started studying ccna(network academy) a month after I finished my studies.

One of the reason is because I LIKE networking.
Another reason is that now days a major in IT is like highschool, you just dont get anything with it that will get you "experience".
Yup, because in IT you need to build at least a year and a half of experience before getting something nice.

The truth is that there is a very shortage in the world of specialists.
Kids nowdays just go for highschool and fast money jobs.

People think ccna will handle you gold and chicks in a platinum plate.
It doesnt, It does however make your value in the social-job market go up.
It makes you a better person because you gain knowledge and tested yourself.
If it doesnt get you your dream job, keep studying and working.