Replace degrees with standardized certification?

undomiel

My wife ran across this article on WSJ today. For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time - WSJ.com

I can agree with a lot of the sentiments and on the surface it seems like a great idea but I am worried about how affected by cheating such a certification standard would be, since we see all sorts of it in most current popular certifications in the IT industry. Plus it would undermine the cash cow of the education industry and they would certainly not brook that happening. Still a nice thought though. For some.

Paul Boz

It just depends on what you do. In many cases certifications more accurately represent someones professional expertise simply because there aren't college-level degrees for such things.

Kaminsky

A degree is so much more than certification but not as hands on as certification I would say.

Certs for the day to day workers and degrees for those that end up as designers, architects, theorists, etc. No cert I know of would help you design and build a new type of network card or a new design of router and all possible future designs. Degree people do that.

Pretty much the way it is now. There is a strong need for both streams. Journalists thinking there isn't, is just narrow thinking.

networker050184

Paul Boz wrote: »

It just depends on what you do. In many cases certifications more accurately represent someones professional expertise simply because there aren't college-level degrees for such things.

I totally agree with this.

gorebrush

Yet at the same time most employer's wouldnt instantly consider you for a job unless you are degree educated (my current post and last one apply here)

eMeS

The story lacks credibility to me, as it is confusing the difference between a "certification" and a "state license".

A CPA is a license granted by a state. What most of us on this site think of as a "certification" is a totally different thing.

Also good to point out is that at least in Texas (sorry, I haven't checked all 50 states, but it is likely that they are similar) a requirement to sit the CPA exam is a college degree with a certain number and mix of accounting hours AND those accounting hours must to be earned in a traditional university setting in an in-person classroom.

The article makes it sound as if anyone can just go sign up and take a CPA exam. That's absolutely not true.

CPAs aren't real interested in making it easy for other people to become CPAs. That's part of why the exams are so hard and also a big part of why the requirements to even sit the exam are so stringent.

MS

Bokeh

Tx is also the state many years ago that went berzerk over MS using the "engineer" title. They were trying to force folks to sit for a true engineering exam, etc.

darkuser

good idea .... will never happen

the "buisness" of college is doing better these days
than actual buisness ...... !!!!!!

eMeS

Bokeh wrote: »

Tx is also the state many years ago that went berzerk over MS using the "engineer" title. They were trying to force folks to sit for a true engineering exam, etc.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Actually it's not just Texas. In most (if not all) states the ability to call oneself an engineer is the result of holding a PE. I don't think it was "Texas" necessarily as much as it was professional engineers lobbying to protect the title. Also, I'm not real sure what bashing Texas has to do with the topic of the post.

Find one state that has less stringent requirements to earn a CPA. Let me spell it out for you...this means that one of the least stringent states in terms of awarding CPAs (Texas) still has very significant requirements to earn a CPA. The article linked implies that anyone can just go take the CPA exam. That's not true. Anywhere.

Again, a PE or a CPA is a license to practice in a field that is very specific and requires years of education to achieve. These aren't certifications.

Right or wrong...I don't know, but I do know that the term "engineer" is often used when the word "administrator" would suffice.

MS

LBC90805

Or if you have both a Four year, Bachelor's, Degree and some sort of Certification(S)!

It took me the better part of going to skewl off and on for eleven years to get my Four year degree!!! And I know I should have finished up my CCNA months ago.

As the article, valid points across the board. But you can make the same arguments for going to Skewl.

Ahriakin

I think the real problem as it relates to business is not the inherent value of a College Education - and by that I meant the ability to persevere, the base intelligence need to pass etc. But that it is often used by HR depts. the world over as a crutch to reduce the amount of valid candidates they have to vet. In pretty much all IT job applications you will see something along the lines of Experience vs. Certification levels, but the College Education requirement is rarely variable. I have a degree in Physics, it has nothing to do with anything I do now but I have a better job outlook than my old boss (and good friend) who has no degree but is A. an excellent systems admin and project leader and B. MCSE,MCT etc. . With extensive experience, great references, industry certifications in the areas he works in he has still been told flat out a few times that he wouldn't be considered for a position because he doesn't have a degree. THAT is just stupid and I think is what the article was getting at (though many of the criticisms of the way it was written are valid)

jryantech

The fact that you can braindump certifications easier than you can **** your way to a Bachelors still stands.

Certifications are really good in some fields and Degrees are really good in others.
If you have both you can not lose
So I would say stop trying to take short cuts and learn something.

snowdude

A degree not only represents the core of your major, but other classes that make you a more ‘well rounded’ individual, that of course depends on the individual. There is more to it than networking, or programming for example. I would say a degree is still more valued than certs in general. But certs are a very nice compliment to a degree.

I would like to see computer classes that more closely follow objectives in certs so students have the option to take the exam without too much extra work.

Slowhand

So, what happens when you decide you no longer want to do precisely what your professional certification is in, and you don't have a general education to fall back on to re-train or go into another field with, as-is?

Certs are highly specialized and are great for a specific field, but they can lock you into that path; while a well-rounded academic education can let you move between fields, (more easily than without one).

skrpune

First of all, I think the title of the article is flat out wrong and also inflammatory. It assumes that everyone needs to go for a bachelor of arts degree and that everyone takes four years to get that degree. It only makes concessions for a "handful" of majors, and in general I think the article is flawed.

The solution is not betterdegrees, but no degrees.

Unfounded, in my opinion. Why is it better to wipe out a system and replace it with an entirely new one that has the same potential for flaws and a greater chance of allowing cheats through?

I understand that employers want to hire someone who is able to perform certain tasks on the job, and certifications are great for...well, certifying stuff like that, but how many different exams would someone have to take to cover all the tasks/knowledge for a job? How expensive would those exams be? They're going to need to train for them somehow too, so aren't they going to still have to go through education/training to get prepared??

Also, I think that employers also want someone who has a deeper understanding and that only comes with extensive & extended study, in topics both directly related to and indirectly related to your major. Certifications can only cover so much. And while cheating does happen in college, cheating and brain dumping is already a problem with existing certifications exams and I anticipate it would only get worse if certification became the "golden ticket" to employment in place of college.

And as for "real" engineers being protective of their title, I can understand to a certain extent but I think they're being a bit touchy about it. I've never heard of architects get bent out of shape over the term "data architect" or other similar terms being used. There are all sorts of engineers, architects, administrators, etc. and they have different meanings in different industries.

Kasor

No certification can replace college degree. Certification and formal 4 year higher learning are two different thing. Get a degree.