What's considered "entry-level" and "mid-level," and where am I in that spectrum?

genXrcist

LockeWiggin83 wrote: »

Well, that's why I'm asking people who WOULD know to tell me where I am.


Well, I don't *really* want to leave my job, I just wanted to know where I stood in case I *had* to leave.

But I figured that coming here, where there were lots of IT professionals, I could get the same kind of feedback.

Sorry, I didn't clarify myself. My suggestion was for you to apply for other jobs only for the purpose of guaging yourself, not to actually take an offer should it come your way. It was once recommended to me that every 6 months or so you should apply for other jobs in your field or the field you want to get into just for this very purpose. Test the waters so to speak.

LockeWiggin83

genXrcist wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't clarify myself. My suggestion was for you to apply for other jobs only for the purpose of guaging yourself, not to actually take an offer should it come your way. It was once recommended to me that every 6 months or so you should apply for other jobs in your field or the field you want to get into just for this very purpose. Test the waters so to speak.

Yeah, I understood what you meant. But like I said, I thought coming here, where there are a lot of IT pros, I'd get the same kind of feedback. Especially since, if I apply anywhere, it'll probably be HR people and not IT people who do the initial screening and calling.

Cherper

LockeWiggin83 wrote: »

Yeah, I understood what you meant. But like I said, I thought coming here, where there are a lot of IT pros, I'd get the same kind of feedback. Especially since, if I apply anywhere, it'll probably be HR people and not IT people who do the initial screening and calling.

One of the things that HR people look for and like is certifications. If they don't show up on your resume, your resume is tossed. Get your CCNA. It will only help.

HR people usually don't understand anything about IT, and they look for certain buzzwords. It might not be fair, but if your resume and someone else who has Network+, MCDST and others come up for review, you will probably lose out.

The IT guys are the ones that you would need to impress with your knowledge, but without any paper to prove some basics, you won't get beyond the HR gatekeeper.

As a couple people have said, 2 years seems to be the cut-off for entry-level. After that you are mid-level until you really stand out.

As for the A+, it is often considered an entry cert, but I don't have it and never felt that the lack of it hindered me, but then I came into networking from web design. Get your CCNA and don't look back.

LockeWiggin83

Cherper wrote: »

As a couple people have said, 2 years seems to be the cut-off for entry-level. After that you are mid-level until you really stand out.

Ok, here's a question.

I said that I only had nine months of IT experience, but before my current job, I worked in digital media for three years. How does that count towards my IT experience? It was a technical job, too, just a very boring one that I'd rather not care to repeat if I don't have to. By the end of it, my primary responsibility was to manage the NAS servers and tape backup systems, as well as writing the technical requirements documents whenever we'd have a big project.

I didn't count it in my experience because it was such a rote task that I felt that I didn't learn much of anything from it. As mikej412 described, it felt like I was repeating the same six months over and over again for three years, so I didn't feel quite right claiming I had "four years of IT" when really all I had was "nine months of REAL IT, and three years of repeating keystrokes."

Cherper

You can put it on your resume, but you will still only be entry-level in IT. In this industry, and especially in this economy, you have to have the time in to really be considered more than entry-level. Too many people with a lot more experience out there looking.

Don't worry about it too much. I never worked help-desk, and it was only through one job that got me where I am now. If you like your job, stick with it, get the time and you can go places.

LockeWiggin83

Cherper wrote: »

You can put it on your resume, but you will still only be entry-level in IT. In this industry, and especially in this economy, you have to have the time in to really be considered more than entry-level. Too many people with a lot more experience out there looking.

Ok, I understand that.

That begs the question, what sort of work experience is considered relevant to "IT"? What specific jobs and positions and whatnot? Helpdesk seems to be the most common first step, but what does that entail? And what typically follows it? And what follows that? So on and so forth.

Another thing:
I love working in a production environment. I love the high pressure, the fast turnaround times, the relative independence when it comes to pursuing new projects, etc. Most of all, I like the expansion-oriented drive behind everything we do.

Is that typical in this profession? This is the only environment I know, and one of the things I'm afraid of is that the pace will slow down in any other IT field, or that other companies will be more concerned with maintenance, support, and consolidation than in expanding their capacities. Again, it's all relative, so please be as specific as you can.

seuss_ssues

I have skimmed most of this thread. No one here is going to argue that you are anything more than entry level based off of your lack of experience. The reason why you are getting so much resistance is based off of the tone of your posts. From what you have posted I would either assume you are rather young or very naive (i hope the former). You have probably worked very hard and learned a great deal. Unfortunately 9 months cannot compare to the 4-8 years that many mid level employees have. And it is just a drop in the bucket on the IT guys that have been out there for 20+ years.

Im not sure exactly why you are on here trying to validate where you stand. My only advice that I can give you is to be humble. Blowing your own horn will not get you very far.

blargoe

While you may, in reality, be crossing the threshold from entry-level skills to jr-level, on paper and in the market, you are entry level. If you (people) network well, you may be able to overcome that and continue your relatively accelerated path. I was able to more or less skip helpdesk too.

mikej412

LockeWiggin83 wrote: »

Two words: Don't skim.

Two words: People Skills

Most places I've worked do technical and peer interviews -- it doesn't matter what your level is or your skills are if no one wants to work with you.

rwwest7

My whole point about the A+ was that it's the definition of "entry level" certs, and you don't even have it. I never said it would get you a six figure job with Microsoft. All I'm saying is you have zero certs. I don't care what you claim to know how to do, the only way to prove it is by taking an exam. And until you've taken at least one, even one as simple as A+ (and that test is a joke) then you can't even pose the question about wether or not your entry level. You are. No need to get all defensive. Even the CCNA is considered an entry level certification.

LockeWiggin83

rwwest7 wrote: »

My whole point about the A+ was that it's the definition of "entry level" certs

No, it's not. It's a "basic" cert.

To me, entry-level, at least as it applies to careers, still implies some form of specialized knowledge that still requires a fair amount of dedicated study. If you had said CCENT or Network+, I would have just said, "I'm working on my CCNA, how will that help me?" and left it at that, instead of ripping your throat out for insulting me.

I would think that on an IT message board, A+ knowledge (not necessarily the cert itself) is a given, rather than a noted prerequisite.

rwwest7 wrote: »

I don't care what you claim to know how to do, the only way to prove it is by taking an exam.

No, it's not. Skills that are tested by entry-level certs like CCNA can be assessed by sufficiently experienced individuals during the interview (which you didn't even try to do), and/or can be earned within a very short period of time. As others have said, entry-level certs are good for getting past the initial HR screen, but HR doesn't determine experience/aptitude.

rwwest7 wrote: »

And until you've taken at least one, even one as simple as A+ (and that test is a joke) then you can't even pose the question about wether or not your entry level. You are.

I didn't ask, "Am I entry level or not?"

I asked, "What's considered 'entry-level' and 'mid-level,' and where am I in that spectrum." It's the freakin' thread title.

You put way too much weight on such basic certification.

LockeWiggin83

Never mind, I have what I was looking for.

Thanks to everyone who properly answered my question. I'll try to be clearer next time I post to minimize misunderstandings.

ULWiz

For me you are entry level if you have not had 3 years of helpdesk or desktop support experience. You would also be considered entry level in my book if you had not attained at least some of the following certifications (A+,Net+,Security+.MCSA).

Since you fall Below that in all aspects i would still consider you entry level.

Mid level in my opinion is when you get into 5 years of IT experience. Technician have attained MCSE,CCNA status and have both MS experience or cisco experience.

Highest level for me is multiple MCSE's and multiple CCNA's and CCIE certs.
Plus 7 years experience in both ms and cisco environments.

I would still consider me entry level with the certifications i have attained.



Hope this helps a little as well

dynamik

Man, I don't have an A+ either

Seriously though, there are very skilled people that don't have any certifications, and there are also people with certifications that don't know anything.

rwwest7

Glad you found your answer. Below are the requirements for a level 2 or "mid-level" Help Desk job I just pulled up on Monster.com.
Requirements:

• Candidates must have an Active Secret or Top Secret Clearance.
• Candidates must have 2-5 years relevant IT experience, good communication skills, ability to work independently as well as in a team environment.
• Candidates should be proficient with Microsoft and other products and a certification such as an MCP(or CCNA or MCSE) is preferred.
• Hours: must be open to 1st shift or 2nd shift, and weekend work.

And here's the requirements for a Network Engineer:



Network Engineer position in Cleveland, OH. Must have one of the following Cisco certifications and be in good standing (CCNA, CCNP, CCDP, CCSP, or CCIE)

• Must have a minimum of five (5) years Cisco experience working within a global organization's network team
• Must have a four (4) year degree (an additional two (2) years of hands-on Cisco networking experience in a large complex environment can be substituted)
• Proven ability to analyze business goals and constraints and transfer that knowledge into an appropriate network design
• Hands-on experience in testing, optimizing, and documenting complex global network designs/architectures
• Hands on experience in IGRP,OSPF,EIGRP,BGP,
• Hands on experience in VLANs, HSRP, QoS, VPN.
• Assembling & Cabling the WAN/LAN Components,
• Hands-on experience of PPP, Frame Relay, NAT, VoIP, MPLS (VRF)
• Firewall and network security experience preferred (Pix and ASA ver. 7.x)
• Experience in wireless networking and monitoring Tools
• Ability to be flexible in working approach and can work under pressure
• Ability to work to tight timescales and deadlines

Is that the kind of responses you were looking for?

Cherper

ULWiz wrote: »

For me you are entry level if you have not had 3 years of helpdesk or desktop support experience. You would also be considered entry level in my book if you had not attained at least some of the following certifications (A+,Net+,Security+.MCSA).

Does this mean that if you have been in the industry for going on 10 years, and have never done helpdesk or desktop support you are considered entry level?

ULWiz

No of course not. Most people start in those type roles. So i considered those for the 3 years of IT experience.

remyforbes777

Sounds like to me that most people consider you entry level. Without knowing the complexity or the depth of the things you configured noone can really gauge what you know. It would be hard for me to believe that a person with only 9 mos experience knows enough to be considered anything else but entry level. I know you have been exposed to quite a bit of stuff but unless you have been plugged into th the Matrix during this whole time and getting information downloaded directly into your brain, i would say you are only entry level.

remyforbes777

LockeWiggin83 wrote: »

No, it's not. It's a "basic" cert.

To me, entry-level, at least as it applies to careers, still implies some form of specialized knowledge that still requires a fair amount of dedicated study. If you had said CCENT or Network+, I would have just said, "I'm working on my CCNA, how will that help me?" and left it at that, instead of ripping your throat out for insulting me.

I would think that on an IT message board, A+ knowledge (not necessarily the cert itself) is a given, rather than a noted prerequisite.


No, it's not. Skills that are tested by entry-level certs like CCNA can be assessed by sufficiently experienced individuals during the interview (which you didn't even try to do), and/or can be earned within a very short period of time. As others have said, entry-level certs are good for getting past the initial HR screen, but HR doesn't determine experience/aptitude.


I didn't ask, "Am I entry level or not?"

I asked, "What's considered 'entry-level' and 'mid-level,' and where am I in that spectrum." It's the freakin' thread title.

You put way too much weight on such basic certification.

Ummm you did ask. Where am I in that spectrum is asking whether or not you are entry level.
A lot of people answered what's considered entry level, mid-level and beyond and they also answered where you fit in. As much as you claim people aren't paying attention to your posts, you definitely aren't paying attention to theirs.

the_Grinch

Entry-level.

I have a year of experience as a field tech. I've spent years building, repairing, and troubleshooting for family, friends, and people who have called me. I have a BS, a couple of certs, and wrote numerous papers on security and network configurations. I also did a couple of months on helpdesk for an ISP (and refuse to ever go back). My degree is from a well known school on the East Coast and I will tell you what has happen thus far in interviews.

Security position: offered a job and later it was rescinded.

Helpdesk position: Had an interview with manager of help desk and then second in command. Interview went well and never heard from them again...

Recent grad program at a big company: Had a interview I thought went well with no technical questions and didn't get the job.

Field tech position, but with other things thrown in: two interviews and no word yet.

Security position: got an interview with manager of the group, panel interview by members of the group, and interview with manager of the IT department. Didn't get the job...

Web Developer position: go on Monday for the interview and told it is a very entry-level position.

You and I have about the same experience and educational background. We are both entry-level guys. My work environments have not been high stress, but I've dealt with my fair share of emergencies (such as a sever going bye bye and doing a little forensics on a local machine looking for bomb making websites). I once had an offer for a job that was literally putting a network card into a computer and then turning on the machine to install the drivers. Guy asked if I had A+, I said no, he replied with I can't give you the job without it. So even a little cert such as A+ where my experience shows that I could put a network card in was the breaking point. Plus most HR departments these days use software that says "here's a CCNA, here's a CISSP, here's a MCSE".

Like others have said, less then two years of experience you're entry-level. I believe more then likely you would not be on a help desk, but you will get offers and companies where if you don't start on their help desk you won't get a job. The ISP I worked for didn't even look at resumes for jobs they posted online unless you worked for them already. You're getting great experience and in 2 years and three months you could probably start applying for mid-level positions. As others have said the market is now flooded with people who have degrees and years of experience so you have to battle them for jobs....

blargoe

I was a sysadmin for 5 years before I got my A+. I guess that means I wasn't qualified to do anything but work on the helpdesk.

??:

djhss68

rwwest7 wrote: »

You have about nine months experience with zero certs. By the book your not even entry level yet. The A+ (the most entry of entry level certs, which you don't have yet) is aimed at someone with about 9 months experience.

I wouldn't dignify that experience "estimate" at all. I have ZERO IT work experience and I was able to pass both A+ exams with scores well into the 800's. And I am well on my way to passing Net+ and MCDST. So take that for what it's worth.

To the OP, I would say don't even listen to all this talk about certs when you have a great job right now and are learning new things every day. That's ten times more valuable than any cert you can slap on your resume. And I wouldn't consider you entry level because you already have almost a year of experience in a role which sounds like your managment had basically thrown you to the wolves. You can learn a lot in under a year, especially when you were fast tracked the way you were.

I am just an aspiring IT pro so take my opinion with a grain. If you ask me, I would stick with your current job a little longer and keep learning. And once you get "burned out" or feel you can no longer learn anything more, then start your job search.

emtffkev

Just my $0.02. I think a lot of people are misinterpreting the value of an A+ (or I am). I don't think anyone is saying that lack of A+ makes you "not qualified". If you have a job and don't have an A+ that's great! But in the world the way it is today, you may never make it through the initial screening process because that is conducted by HR reps that don't know anything about your actual skills, the only thing they care about is work history and DOCUMENTABLE experience. Certs, as basic as some may be, are a great source of documentable experience.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Not having a particular cert may not diminish your ability to do a particular job, it just may diminish your ability to obtain that job.

dynamik

emtffkev wrote: »

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Not having a particular cert may not diminish your ability to do a particular job, it just may diminish your ability to obtain that job.

Well put

BeaverC32

This entire thread discussion just made my day

wedge1988

BeaverC32 wrote: »

This entire thread discussion just made my day

lol, me too!

On a serious note:

dynamik wrote: »

Man, I don't have an A+ either

Seriously though, there are very skilled people that don't have any certifications, and there are also people with certifications that don't know anything.

LOL!

No, Seriously;

I read somewhere on this forum, a long long time ago, probably before this forum actually...

Somebody said that you need certs to get jobs; experience to do the job and age to get paid loads.

thats life

edit:

Sorry about the quote dynamik; i dont mean anything by it! It just gave me a few giggles.

ilcram19-2

wow i still dont think your 9 months of experiance compare to my 11 years i consider my self mid-level (may be cuz of my age) i've seen and done really exciting stuff in this field, like MIKE said "just a late night" and i;ve got so many of those that i dont mind not to be getting pay for, may be u r right that in 9 month u can become a mid-level if that is what you wanna hear so keep it up in the next 12 u'll become a senior-level and u will be head of every body in this world wow you shoulf work for the NASA

ilcram19-2

BeaverC32 wrote: »

This entire thread discussion just made my day

lol thats your favorite type of reading

JDMurray

It looks like LockeWiggin83 has finished with this thread, so I'll have the final word before closing it.

It doesn't matter what anyone on TE thinks "entry-level" is unless they are hiring. Only a hiring manager knows what s/he is looking for in terms of education, certification, experience, and maturity of a job candidate. And it appears that a few people posting to this thread need to work on one or two of those qualities if they want to get a better job.