I want to know Juniper

aungkyawminn

Dear brothers,
I have studied CCNA Routing ans Switching, but not taken yet because I cannot take the exam in my country. So, I decided to sit another platform that can sit here. Juniper is available to take here.
I would like to ask Juniper is as good as Cisco?
Should I take the Juniper Enterprise Routing and switching exam rather than Cisco?
Are their concepts same?
Is juniper likely to be as popular as Cisco in Routing and switching?

Thanks in Advance!

dynamik

What country are you in?

Juniper has much less market share than Cisco, but they make good products*. You should really take a look at job boards, advertisements, etc. to determine what is in demand in your area. Sometimes you'd have to move to where the opportunities are. You'd have to ask yourself if working with Juniper would be worth, say, moving to Canada. Personally, I'd pass

*Just don't tell Aldur I said that...

aungkyawminn

dynamik wrote: »

What country are you in?

Juniper has much less market share than Cisco, but they make good products*. You should really take a look at job boards, advertisements, etc. to determine what is in demand in your area. Sometimes you'd have to move to where the opportunities are. You'd have to ask yourself if working with Juniper would be worth, say, moving to Canada. Personally, I'd pass

*Just don't tell Aldur I said that...

Thank you very much for your advice, brother. I will try as you suggest.
I am in Myanmar.

astorrs

dynamik wrote: »

You'd have to ask yourself if working with Juniper would be worth, say, moving to Canada. Personally, I'd pass

Yeah cause we all know Canada is a horrible place to live, especially some parts of it... Vancouver voted world's most livable city again - June 8, 2009



I can't believe you'd rather live in this hellish place - oh wait - you do!

Aldur

dynamik wrote: »

What country are you in?

Juniper has much less market share than Cisco, but they make good products*. You should really take a look at job boards, advertisements, etc. to determine what is in demand in your area. Sometimes you'd have to move to where the opportunities are. You'd have to ask yourself if working with Juniper would be worth, say, moving to Canada. Personally, I'd pass

*Just don't tell Aldur I said that...

haha, damn straight! Juniper makes some great products!

astorrs wrote: »

Yeah cause we all know Canada is a horrible place to live, especially some parts of it... Vancouver voted world's most livable city again - June 8, 2009



I can't believe you'd rather live in this hellish place - oh wait - you do!

lol, when I say dynamic's post I knew astorrs wasn't far behind

Honestly I am really enjoying up here in Canada, other then the higher taxes, it's really a great place to live. I honestly wouldn't mind planting some roots down and raising a family.

To the OP,

I would absolutely recommend learning Juniper products. Juniper is a major player in the networking world today. Juniper's main presence is in the core, I believe that our last numbers showed that Juniper owns about 1/2 of the core and Cisco owns the other half. Juniper has recently been focusing on enterprise level products and has gained huge amounts of ground in that category.

The concepts, as far as routing and switching go are the same, just the syntax and the way Juniper and Cisco implement them are different.

Dynamic has a good point, in that Cisco does own more of the market share, but something you have to realize too is that there is a hell of alot more Cisco certified people then Juniper certified people.

The last time I checked there was a little over 400 JNCIE's out there whereas there are over 22000 CCIE's. So although there is alot more Cisco boxes out there the demand for Juniper certified people is much much higher. Take me for example. I have just over 2 years experience in IT and just recently graduated college with my Bachelors degree in computer science. Because of my knowledge with Juniper routers I was able to land an amazing job making money that I never thought I could with only 2 years experience.

If I would have taken the Cisco route and gained my CCIE instead there is no chance I would be working at this level and making this type of pay.

So it Juniper worth learning, absolutely! There are many pro's in my mind that say learning Juniper is a huge benefit to anybody's career.

networker050184

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the demand for Juniper certified people being much much higher than Cisco. A simple search of job boards will show you otherwise.

A quick search of Monster shows 2067 results for the keyword Cisco compared to only 301 for Juniper. A simillar search on Dice returned 2528 and 425 results.

dynamik

networker050184 wrote: »

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the demand for Juniper certified people being much much higher than Cisco. A simple search of job boards will show you otherwise.

A quick search of Monster shows 2067 results for the keyword Cisco compared to only 301 for Juniper. A simillar search on Dice returned 2528 and 425 results.

He was comparing the number of jobs to qualified/certified people though; you can't look at the number of jobs alone. There may be 2000 positions available, but there may be 3000 people applying for them. Being the sole person applying for five positions would make you much more in demand.

networker050184

dynamik wrote: »

He was comparing the number of jobs to qualified/certified people though; you can't look at the number of jobs alone. There may be 2000 positions available, but there may be 3000 people applying for them. Being the sole person applying for five positions would make you much more in demand.

I'd still have to say the ratio of certified people to jobs would still lean towards Cisco as you can see there are many more jobs seeking Cisco skills. It would be nice to have some hard facts to know for sure though.

dynamik

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd still have to say the ratio of certified people to jobs would still lean towards Cisco as you can see there are many more jobs seeking Cisco skills. It would be nice to have some hard facts to know for sure though.

Yea, I was just explaining his logic. I never said anything about him being correct

Aldur

dynamik wrote: »

He was comparing the number of jobs to qualified/certified people though; you can't look at the number of jobs alone. There may be 2000 positions available, but there may be 3000 people applying for them. Being the sole person applying for five positions would make you much more in demand.

Yup, that was the point I was trying to get across

For example, I know that there is over 10 positions just like mine at Juniper that are unfilled because the lack of Juniper certified people. Honestly I had the choice of taking many different resident engineer positions and was able to choose the one I preferred. Yes Dynamic I chose to go to Canada :P

networker050184

Aldur wrote: »

Yup, that was the point I was trying to get across

For example, I know that there is over 10 positions just like mine at Juniper that are unfilled because the lack of Juniper certified people. Honestly I had the choice of taking many different resident engineer positions and was able to choose the one I preferred. Yes Dynamic I chose to go to Canada :P

I'm sure there are quite a few open positions at Cisco also

Aldur

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd still have to say the ratio of certified people to jobs would still lean towards Cisco as you can see there are many more jobs seeking Cisco skills. It would be nice to have some hard facts to know for sure though.

Ok, lets talk some hard facts, as mentioned earlier there are over 22000 CCIE's and there are around 400 JNCIE's. If we take the numbers you quoted from monster and dice.

networker050184 wrote: »

A quick search of Monster shows 2067 results for the keyword Cisco compared to only 301 for Juniper. A simillar search on Dice returned 2528 and 425 results.

And then factor those in to the number of available IE level Cisco and Juniper ppl you get the following numbers.

Monster
22000/2067 = 10.6 CCIE's per 1 job
400/301 = 1.3 JNCIE's per 1 job

Dice
22000/2528 = 8.5 CCIE's per 1 job
400/425 = 0.9 JNCIE's per 1 job

Granted I know that not all these jobs require a JNCIE or CCIE but you have to admit that this does give an indication of certified ppl to available jobs between the two certification tracks.

Also, from my personal experience and dealing with service providers I've been told that it is about impossible to find Juniper certified ppl and they have to search for months at time to just find candidates. Where as they don't have near to as much problems finding candidates for any Cisco related positions.

dynamik

*Gets Popcorn*

astorrs

dynamik wrote: »

*Gets Popcorn*

Me too...

Aldur's last post has my vote right now. Can't argue with his logic and after all he's a pseudo-Canadian too.

networker050184

There are not 22000 active CCIEs, that is the total number of CCIEs. Also don't forget the first human CCIE was 1025. There are also the numbers of inactive CCIEs to take out of the mix. Not much of a difference in the calculation, just thought I'd throw that out there.


Looking through those job listing for "Juniper" the majority ask for Cisco and Juniper experience/certification. The vast majority of the Cisco ads did not mention Juniper skills/certification.


I'm not trying to say there is anything wrong with Juniper, I happen to like working with Juniper myself. They are a very flexible and stable platform, I just don't believe their certifications are any where near as valuable in ones career as Cisco certifications. Maybe in the future they may come close, but for now Cisco certifications are the clear leader in the networking industry. I will still probably grab at least a JNCIA-M eventually just as an excuse for some extra Juniper study. I also am a frequent atendee of the JUNOS How-To Sessions. I actually attended the "How to Deploy Juniper EX Series Switches in Your Campus Network" session this morning. It was pretty good, but I was having a hard time understanding the engineer because of his thick Asian accent. It was funny to seem them talking about Virtual Chassis (AKA switch stack for you Cisco people) like it hasn't already been done before. None the less good info.

mikej412

Aldur wrote: »

Ok, lets talk some hard facts, as mentioned earlier there are over 22000 CCIE's

[FONT=arial,helvetica]19752 [/FONT] (last updated 05/18/2009)

HotJobs - Chicago
CCIE - 6
JNCIE- 0

Monster - Chicago
CCIE - 13
JNCIE - 0

CareerBuilder - Chicago
CCIE - 18 jobs within 30 miles of Chicago
JNCIE - 0 jobs within 30 miles of Chicago

If I'm willing to move, I guess the odds are better....

Monster - Nationwide
CCIE - 287
JNCIE - 15

Juniper makes you call a phone number to find a Juniper Business Partner. Searching the web I only found a couple in the Chicago area.

Cisco, on the other hand, gives you just a selection of the available business partners..... pages and pages and pages.


Amazing fun Cisco/Juniper facts

At my home, Cisco Devices outnumber Juniper Devices about 10 to 1 (if I were to admit to having any )

In my books shelves, my Cisco Books outnumber Juniper books about 16 feet to 1-1/4 foot


To the original poster

Juniper Certifications are a great addition to your Cisco Certifications.


Personal Observation

Juniper should just make the Cisco CCNP or CCIP the prerequisite for the JNCIA/JNCIS Certifications.

networker050184

And to add more fuel to the fire along the lines of Mike's post...

A nation wide search of Dice brought up 437 results for CCIE and 19 for JNCIE (not bad I admit for the low number of JNCIEs). All 19 of the JNCIE hits asked for a JNCIE and/or CCIE. A lot of them asked for JNCIA/CCNA or JNCIE/CCIE so I doubt they really knew what they were asking for either way

Aldur

mikej412 wrote: »

[FONT=arial,helvetica]19752 [/FONT] (last updated 05/18/2009)

Interesting, I was told over 22k from a couple of ppl I work with, all of those ppl are CCIE's without Juniper certification so I thought they were valid sources... guess not.

networker050184 wrote: »

There are not 22000 active CCIEs, that is the total number of CCIEs. Also don't forget the first human CCIE was 1025. There are also the numbers of inactive CCIEs to take out of the mix. Not much of a difference in the calculation, just thought I'd throw that out there.


Looking through those job listing for "Juniper" the majority ask for Cisco and Juniper experience/certification. The vast majority of the Cisco ads did not mention Juniper skills/certification.


I'm not trying to say there is anything wrong with Juniper, I happen to like working with Juniper myself. They are a very flexible and stable platform, I just don't believe their certifications are any where near as valuable in ones career as Cisco certifications. Maybe in the future they may come close, but for now Cisco certifications are the clear leader in the networking industry. I will still probably grab at least a JNCIA-M eventually just as an excuse for some extra Juniper study. I also am a frequent atendee of the JUNOS How-To Sessions. I actually attended the "How to Deploy Juniper EX Series Switches in Your Campus Network" session this morning. It was pretty good, but I was having a hard time understanding the engineer because of his thick Asian accent. It was funny to seem them talking about Virtual Chassis (AKA switch stack for you Cisco people) like it hasn't already been done before. None the less good info.

No worries, I didn't get the feeling that you were trashing Juniper, just a lively debate about which has more demand at the moment.

It's hard to say from online job boards alone what companies are looking for, probably best to use it as an indication and not has the end all be all facts. Seems like they are just throwing buzz words out there, a common practice for job listings

Granted there is probably more demand for Cisco certified ppl in the enterprise level since Cisco has much more of a market share there then Juniper. From my experience and from what many hiring managers for different service providers have told me, in the service provider world Juniper certificates are more valuable.

networker050184

I still have to disagree with you about the service provider market. I work in the service provider industry as well, and in my experience Cisco certifications are still more widely requested and valued higher.

I don't think we are going to see eye to eye though. After all, I am arguing with a JNCIE who works for Juniper

rossonieri#1

sorry guys,
not to disrupt your discussion - but

kyawminn,
if you like to study - just study - then feel free to choose any platform that you like. whether its an A thing or B thing or anything - you're the one who knew better in your area.

about the future? your study will determine it if you're good at something - then you're good at something, so the choice is yours

cheers

Aldur

networker050184 wrote: »

I still have to disagree with you about the service provider market. I work in the service provider industry as well, and in my experience Cisco certifications are still more widely requested and valued higher.

I don't think we are going to see eye to eye though. After all, I am arguing with a JNCIE who works for Juniper

lol, yea, your right on the point that we'll never see eye to eye on this matter, but we're not arguing, we're having a friendly debate. Without a doubt our own opinions/biases will be getting in the way.

I think that Cisco's certification path will teach somebody a wealth of knowledge about networking. Heck after I pick up my second JNCIE I plan on heading down the Cisco certification path and possible in a year or two have a CCIE

Something you must not be considering is the market share of the core between Juniper and Cisco in relation to Juniper and Cisco certified ppl. I believe that last numbers I saw, end of Q1, was ~40% Juniper, ~45% Cisco. With those numbers how could Juniper certification/knowledge not be more valuable in a service provider setting?

rossonieri#1 wrote: »

sorry guys,
not to disrupt your discussion - but

lol, yea, we have probably got a little off track but the OP did have questions about the value of Juniper and Cisco certifications

Pash

Learn stuff from both vendors, both are very sought after with experience, so its best to start asap.

Aldur

Pash wrote: »

Learn stuff from both vendors, both are very sought after with experience, so its best to start asap.

I couldn't agree more, this world is a multi-vendor world and chances are slim that you will only work with one vendor's equipment. Best to future proof yourself and get certified/knowledgeable in both areas.

rossonieri#1

I couldn't agree more, this world is a multi-vendor world and chances are slim that you will only work with one vendor's equipment. Best to future proof yourself and get certified/knowledgeable in both areas.

thats the spirit dude,
i like that

aungkyawminn

Aldur wrote: »

haha, damn straight! Juniper makes some great products!

To the OP,

I would absolutely recommend learning Juniper products. Juniper is a major player in the networking world today. Juniper's main presence is in the core, I believe that our last numbers showed that Juniper owns about 1/2 of the core and Cisco owns the other half. Juniper has recently been focusing on enterprise level products and has gained huge amounts of ground in that category.

The concepts, as far as routing and switching go are the same, just the syntax and the way Juniper and Cisco implement them are different.

Dynamic has a good point, in that Cisco does own more of the market share, but something you have to realize too is that there is a hell of alot more Cisco certified people then Juniper certified people. .......

Thank you very much for your advice, bro. Your suggestion give me the force to study Juniper. Now I have it to do.

Sumptuous

Well Thanks a lot Guys your Discussion has really helped Much .See i am one of the People who are working with routers form both vendors at my organization and was thinking of Taking advantage of that but i was not sure if it was a wise move but Now I am Going to take advantage of the Junipers Fast track and get myself certified......

networker050184

Sumptuous wrote: »

Well Thanks a lot Guys your Discussion has really helped Much .See i am one of the People who are working with routers form both vendors at my organization and was thinking of Taking advantage of that but i was not sure if it was a wise move but Now I am Going to take advantage of the Junipers Fast track and get myself certified......

Its always a wise move to get certified!

Good luck!