Would you work for someone like this?

I got an email from someone about a job, they said to call them. I left a couple of voice mails over the next 2 days. They then emailed me on a Friday and said to call them 10 am Monday. I called 10 am mon., we talked for 5-10 minutes, she asked if I could come in at noon for an interview. I was at work and told her no. Even if I had left work immediately, I still would have had to go home, shave, shower, get dressed appropriately, etc. I wouldn’t have made it by noon. I wasn’t going to just leave work without any kind of notice anyway and there was too much going on here to just leave.

She then asked if I could come in the next day at 10 am. I said ok. I found out that I had to find someone here to fill in for me for the next day. Ok, I managed to do that. She asked me to bring my college transcript to verify my GPA that I have listed on my resume and my certs. I don’t have a transcript. It has been over 25 years. I called the college and found out I needed to come in to get it. I went home that evening, fell asleep for a few minutes and was planning on going to get my transcript when I got up. My wife woke me up and said this person was on the phone. I answer it and she said she interviewed someone that day and made them an offer and cancelled my interview. I managed to get a hold of the person that I asked to fill in for me. Otherwise I would have been forced to take a vacation day. ( They don’t give me many here. I am trying to save the couple that I have left for the year for interviews. )

I don’t want to burn any possible bridges, this is a large organization that I would ( I think) like to work for. She said she would keep my resume. So, I just said “thank you” and hung up. But, I started thinking, would I really want to work for her. First, she doesn’t seem the least bit trusting. In my experience, I have found that people who aren’t trusting usually aren’t trust worthy. I was raised to be extremely honest and I am very trusting of others as a result. I believe people when they say they are going to do something. I have never even had someone ask to see my certs. Even if that isn’t the case, would she be untrusting and suspicious on the job?

Also, it didn’t seem like she would be a very respectful person. I was jumping through hoops to come in the next day and almost felt like saying “as long as you weren’t inconvenienced that’s all that matters.” I am a big believer in treating others the way I would want to be treated, I get the impression she isn’t.

Am I reading too much into this or should this be a big red flag?

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Comments

undomiel

Big red flag. Proceed with caution.

My experience so far has been anyone that seems psycho during the whole hiring process remains psycho through the rest of your career there. If you can afford to be picky, then definitely be picky. If you can't, then proceed with caution.

blargoe

Well, if it's a large organization, sounds like this person may be one bad apple in their HR department. I wouldn't necessarily judge the entire company based on that one experience.

RobertKaucher

I second udomiel's sentiment. Big red flag. You should really trust your instincts in situations like this. Last November I made some posts on here about a job I was at that was using pirated software. Before I took the job I had serious concerns. I ignored the red flags because I wanted the experience and felt that I could deal with the obvious personality issues I saw, because I was good at dealing with people.

When the HR person asks you if you can deal with being yelled at by your boss, you know you should not take the job.

· Pirated software.
· A network infrastructure in shambles.
· A workgroup setup with over 50 PCs. No active directory.
· No care or need for any type of file security. Documents with the corp AmEx card on public file shares.
· Management/owners that were rude and abusive to employees in front of other employees.

I once heard the CFO say “How does Scott know if Kelli is doing a good job or not, when he cannot even do his job right?” This was in the middle of the office during working hours. Management would also regularly discuss employees in a negative way without shutting the door to the office.

The final straw was when I was asked to falsify documentation about why invoices (dating from before my time at the company) for the support contract on their phone system were not paid.

If you are ok at your current job and have doubts about taking a new one, it is probably better to stay where you are.

GAngel

Don't judge the IT department by the mis-management of a few HR people.

CompuTron99

GAngel wrote: »

Don't judge the IT department by the mis-management of a few HR people.

Very True. For all you know the girl who had arranged the interview was a temp or an intern.

If you really want to make a good impression, and you feel that the company would be great to work for, I would send a "thank you for the consideration" letter. I'm saying this because:
1. The person that took the offer might back out.
2. The person that took the offer might not work out.
3. The company maybe looking to add a few more staff soon.

Just my 2 pennies.

networker050184

I don't really see the big deal. So she wanted to see proof of what you had on your resume. I've been asked to prove my credentials and I didn't think it was a big deal. I think its a good sign that she at least didn't waste your time.

homerj742

This person is a representative of the entire company when she calls someone outside of the company while at work.

Therefore thats what you have to go by.

Therefore I would not waste any more of your time.

120nm4n

blargoe wrote: »

Well, if it's a large organization, sounds like this person may be one bad apple in their HR department. I wouldn't necessarily judge the entire company based on that one experience.

+1

Even in my small company, each department is very different. Our IT dept. is nothing like HR, or Accounting, etc...

eMeS

networker050184 wrote: »

I don't really see the big deal. So she wanted to see proof of what you had on your resume. I've been asked to prove my credentials and I didn't think it was a big deal. I think its a good sign that she at least didn't waste your time.

I second this. The question that I would ask is why put your GPA on your resume? I've never really understood that. However, one should always be prepared to prove anything listed on a resume.

Also, I think it's actually a good thing that she had the consideration to call you and cancel the interview, rather than have you come in and waste your time.

MS

brad-

blargoe wrote: »

Well, if it's a large organization, sounds like this person may be one bad apple in their HR department. I wouldn't necessarily judge the entire company based on that one experience.

this is what i was thinking. i know there are some godaweful HR people out there that can misrepresent a whole company.

unless that person was going to be your direct supervisor, i wouldnt worry about it.

katakatak

Big Red Flag. I recommend everything that Robert is saying. One thing I have learned while looking around for jobs in IT, salary isn't the biggest benefit you can have. Working in an area where there is disrespect, or bosses yelling at you is not somewhere you want to be. You can't put a price on that, and in my opinion if there is a situation where you feel they aren't being a 100% percent with you now, they won't be 100% percent with you later on, when it comes to vacation days or raises. I know it sucks because the company sounds nice, but don't put yourself in a tough situation. Use the job interview also as your way of interviewing the company as well.

drainey

You can't judge the entire organization by one individual, but then again is it their typical corporate strategy to hire someone without interviewing all candidates? How do they know this person was the best available without even talking to you? My guess is they probably thought the other person would be the one they wanted, so why not wait until after his/her interview and see if they offered him a job before calling you for an interview. I'd guess they wanted you as a back up just in case. Reads to me like the company's interests will always outweigh yours no matter what.

I'll second what was said earlier, a great work enviroment trumps great pay anytime.

dynamik

I don't see this as a big deal either. As mentioned, expect to prove anything on your resume. I wasn't offended at all when I was recently asked for my MS, Cisco, and VMware ID numbers. It sounds like she came across your information towards the end of the hiring process, but ended up finding a better candidate and didn't want to waste your time. Maybe there was some other rudeness or psychotic behavior that turned you off, but from what you've said, it really doesn't seem to be that bad.

briangl

Thank you all for your replies. I guess I should have said, this was the help desk manager and I assume that I would have been working for her, it was a help desk job. She did mention having an assistant, so I am not sure.

Why wouldn’t I want to put my GPA on my resume, it is pretty high. I am trying to let people know that I am intelligent and hard working. I am trying to “sell” myself. Nothing else is working. At least that caught her eye. Is this not a good thing?

eMeS

briangl wrote: »

Why wouldn’t I want to put my GPA on my resume, it is pretty high. I am trying to let people know that I am intelligent and hard working. I am trying to “sell” myself. Nothing else is working. At least that caught her eye. Is this not a good thing?

It's never factored into any hiring decision that I've made. A good employment track record always goes much further.

MS

briangl

eMeS wrote: »

It's never factored into any hiring decision that I've made. A good employment track record always goes much further.
MS

I have read that intellect is a better predictor of job success than education or experience. That makes sense. I have a good employment track record anyway. I think in every job I have had I have gotten compliments from my bosses on what a good job I did, even from co-workers.

brad-

briangl wrote: »

Why wouldn’t I want to put my GPA on my resume, it is pretty high. I am trying to let people know that I am intelligent and hard working. I am trying to “sell” myself. Nothing else is working. At least that caught her eye. Is this not a good thing?

I have never seen a specific GPA required for a job in the real world. They may exist, but I've never seen them.

I think people understand that a good (or bad) GPA does not translate to how an employee will pan out. When I was in college, there were quite a few high GPA guys I would never want to have anything to do with in the outside world.

Unless you're trying to get in to Physical Therapy school or something like that, GPA doesnt imply that you will be a great employee. Several of the high GPA people I know are borderline socially retarded...and because i know they will never be able to have a regular conversation with a user or customer, there's no way I would want them around. By no means am I saying a high GPA is a negative in anyway, I'm just saying it doesnt carry over to the workforce in the manner many students think it will.

eMeS

briangl wrote: »

I have read that intellect is a better predictor of job success than education or experience. That makes sense. I have a good employment track record anyway. I think in every job I have had I have gotten compliments from my bosses on what a good job I did, even from co-workers.

How do you measure intellect?

Rather than seeing everything boiled down into a number, I'd more likely hire someone who who can discuss their education, what they did to achieve it, what they learned from it, and how they've applied what they learned. It's more subjective, but it's often what good interviewers will look for.

From an experience standpoint, I look for the results achieved and whether or not these were in-line with the level of the person at the time. Furthermore, as above, what "story" can the person tell around the achievement, what did they learn from it, and how will they apply it in the future.

What's much more important to me is where someone is going, rather than where they've been.

As a recommendation to anyone seeking a job and/or preparing for an interview, I'd highly recommend picking up a book about "Behavioral Event Interviewing".

MS

msteinhilber

briangl wrote: »

I have read that intellect is a better predictor of job success than education or experience. That makes sense. I have a good employment track record anyway. I think in every job I have had I have gotten compliments from my bosses on what a good job I did, even from co-workers.

I've worked in management for 8 years at my prior job in a college town (Madison, WI) that has a plethora of college grad's that attend school here and end up liking the city and not wanting to leave. As a result, I saw many applicants from UW Madison who had earned various degree's. Some of them listed their GPA on their resume and some did not, I never cared to be honest.

I would like to see the source that says intellect in itself is a better predictor of job success than education or experience. I don't consider a high GPA to be of high intellect (no offense to anyone intended), I know that I can bust my rear and achieve a 3.93 GPA with relative ease - but I also am humble and will admit that I know of many people whom I consider of higher intellect than myself and I know for certain two who had lower GPA's.

Here's my opinion, there is absolutely nothing else that is a better qualifier for being a predictor of job success than past job experience (past job successes would be the better way to word that). That's why any interviews I have conducted focused heavily on getting to know what the candidate did at their former roles. That's why any interview I have been on have focused minimally (a question or two if at all) on my education and heavily on my past job experiences.

Claymoore

briangl wrote: »

She asked me to bring my college transcript to verify my GPA that I have listed on my resume and my certs. I don’t have a transcript. It has been over 25 years.

Why wouldn’t I want to put my GPA on my resume, it is pretty high. I am trying to let people know that I am intelligent and hard working. I am trying to “sell” myself. Nothing else is working. At least that caught her eye. Is this not a good thing?

So you got a good grade in your Pascal course? Or an 'A' for punchcard organization? Are they hiring you to write machine code for an Apple II? Did you even take a computer course 25 years ago?

Seriously, live in the now. If your resume and 25+ years of experience aren't landing you a job, then your ancient GPA isn't going to help.

blargoe

briangl wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies. I guess I should have said, this was the help desk manager and I assume that I would have been working for her, it was a help desk job. She did mention having an assistant, so I am not sure.

Why wouldn’t I want to put my GPA on my resume, it is pretty high. I am trying to let people know that I am intelligent and hard working. I am trying to “sell” myself. Nothing else is working. At least that caught her eye. Is this not a good thing?

In that case, run, Forrest, run!

undomiel

eMeS wrote: »

From an experience standpoint, I look for the results achieved and whether or not these were in-line with the level of the person at the time.

I am curious what you mean by this, whether or not they were in-line with the level of the person. Could you elaborate, please?

Lizano

The times that I have applied for jobs, I have included in my resume my CSCO numbers and the links to validate the cert online.

eMeS

undomiel wrote: »

I am curious what you mean by this, whether or not they were in-line with the level of the person. Could you elaborate, please?

I like to see an indication of results in resumes, and where possible, some quantification of those results.

For example, if someone is a junior-level person that worked in a NOC, I'd almost expect to see something on their resume about reducing false alerts. I'd also like to see something in terms of the quantification of the results, e.g., how much time and money were saved.

If for example I were looking for a seasoned salesperson, I would also expect an indication of results, but also a quantification of those results. For the seasoned salesperson I would expect to see greater impact, more business generated, etc... as compared to a person with junior level NOC experience.

A third example, if I were hiring someone to do Six Sigma work, which is a very advanced skillset, I would expect to see which Six Sigma projects they led, and what were the results of those projects in terms of money saved and waste reduced. Someone who has done this type of work in the past will be able to show quantification of results, and that quantification *should* greatly exceed what someone at a junior level will produce.

MS

mikej412

briangl wrote: »

Why wouldn’t I want to put my GPA on my resume, it is pretty high.

After 25 years you should have a lot more impressive things to put on a resume than an old GPA. But if you can squeeze it on the line with your degree, then I guess it would be okay.

mikedisd2

I love how these threads take a whole new direction, especially in one day.

BTW what's a GPA?

dynamik

mikedisd2 wrote: »

BTW what's a GPA?

Grade Point Average.