Age Limit

NightShade03

So with the understanding that the CCIE takes alot of work, time, and dedication does anyone think that there is an age barrier when attempting to become CCIE? What I mean is clearly someone who is older might have more experience with Cisco and therefore a better chance at doing well on the lab. Or do you think that its possible to become CCIE at a young age as well?

jason_lunde

I dont want to re-ignite the fury that was Mr. Lee. But there was a young guy (16 years old) who claimed to of passed his CCIE (I think it was partially verified as true). If you frequent these forums you couldnt have really missed it. lol. But anyways, yes, there are some really young persons out there who have the aptitude to take on, and pass, CCIE labs. I dont know if the majority of their knowledge is theoretical or not, but I dont really see how they could have that much "real world" experience. However I do applaud them, for taking on something besides gaming, drugs, and alcohol at such a young age.

EdTheLad

It's only an exam, i'm sure a 12 could pass if they were really interested.There is nothing difficult on the ccie, the problem is the quantity of info to learn and the tricks and gotchas that the lab is riddled with.
Since the vendor labs give scenarios with all the tricks it really boils down to dedication.
I know afew ccie's that are totally clueless, these tend to be SP ccies rather than R&s.

tmlerdal

Might sound crazy, but I could see how someone younger would have an advantage in studying for certs. Not just ccie, but any in general. I won't argue the experience, but the study skills are (hopefully) a little better tuned than after you've been in the field for awhile.

I know my biggest problem when preparing for a cert is dedicating the time at home. So much other stuff I'd rather be doing than thinking about work.

Just my $.02

NightShade03

tmlerdal wrote: »

Might sound crazy, but I could see how someone younger would have an advantage in studying for certs. Not just ccie, but any in general. I won't argue the experience, but the study skills are (hopefully) a little better tuned than after you've been in the field for awhile.

I know my biggest problem when preparing for a cert is dedicating the time at home. So much other stuff I'd rather be doing than thinking about work.

Just my $.02

That's a very fair point, especially since I just graduated a year ago....

rakem

tmlerdal wrote: »

So much other stuff I'd rather be doing than thinking about work.

Yep, like gaming, drugs and alcohol..... as mentioned above!

Turgon

EdTheLad wrote: »

It's only an exam, i'm sure a 12 could pass if they were really interested.There is nothing difficult on the ccie, the problem is the quantity of info to learn and the tricks and gotchas that the lab is riddled with.
Since the vendor labs give scenarios with all the tricks it really boils down to dedication.
I know afew ccie's that are totally clueless, these tend to be SP ccies rather than R&s.

Brunel mastered Euclid mathematics at 5 years of age so I don't see why we shouldn't see younger CCIE's coming along. They would still need to be bright, dedicated, have lots of time each day to prepare and support to do it though.


It's not a rote learning and grind exercise. If it was CCIE numbers would be way higher given the simply thousands of people and kids hammering away at labs. I caveat that by conceding we have some cheating going on. That isn't helping the dummy cisco professional factor. A lack of experience isn't very helpful either in the field. Real networks are not labs.

That said..there's plenty of difficult work awaiting any CCIE candidate. It is not just a question of putting the time in. There is no doubt that hardwork is a considerable factor but I know many capable engineers who over the years have put in no lifer stints to pass the lab and still come up short. They run major network environments and run them well. The last CCIE I worked with took three shots to pass and was very capable indeed. I did some work for him on the SP network.

The vendor labs give scenarios that illustrate solutions to problems, but there are thousands of possible problems. They can't all be illustrated. The candidate needs to understand really well how enough things actually work to pass the lab exam exam. Explanations are out there but true understanding is really down to the ability as well as the work ethic of the candidate. Some people either dont have the time or the intellect to achieve that even if they have every legit vendor product known to man sitting on their shelves.

I think I relate to the SP situation, but this may be down to more difficulty matching SP practice materials to what is really encountered in the field, like STM channelised interfaces and backhauling and such. I think with the R&S track, while situations are over egged in terms of translation to real networks, I have found the knowledge quite transferable in field work.

Sepiraph

Turgon wrote: »

It's not a rote learning and grind exercise. If it was CCIE numbers would be way higher given the simply thousands of people and kids hammering away at labs. I caveat that by conceding we have some cheating going on. That isn't helping the dummy cisco professional factor. A lack of experience isn't very helpful either in the field. Real networks are not labs.

That said..there's plenty of difficult work awaiting any CCIE candidate. It is not just a question of putting the time in. There is no doubt that hardwork is a considerable factor but I know many capable engineers who over the years have put in no lifer stints to pass the lab and still come up short. They run major network environments and run them well. The last CCIE I worked with took three shots to pass and was very capable indeed. I did some work for him on the SP network.

Well difficulty is always relative but I think it's fair to say CCIE ranks on the higher end of difficulty for IT cert. and it is definitely not all rote memory. Having said that though, I agree with EdTheLad that at the end of the day it is an exam, it is not exactly like we are doing cutting-edge research here and it is entirely possibly for anyone determined enough to pass it, be it at age 12, 21 or 65.

Brunel mastered Euclid mathematics at 5 years of age so I don't see why we shouldn't see younger CCIE's coming along. They would still need to be bright, dedicated, have lots of time each day to prepare and support to do it though.

Mathematics has came a long way in 2000 years.

dynamik

Younger people may have more free time to study while older people may have more experience and require less study time. I'm sure it all averages out somehow. If that's a goal of yours, the sooner you start working on it, the sooner you're going to obtain it. I wouldn't put it of until some arbitrary age.

Turgon

Sepiraph wrote: »

Well difficulty is always relative but I think it's fair to say CCIE ranks on the higher end of difficulty for IT cert. and it is definitely not all rote memory. Having said that though, I agree with EdTheLad that at the end of the day it is an exam, it is not exactly like we are doing cutting-edge research here and it is entirely possibly for anyone determined enough to pass it, be it at age 12, 21 or 65.



Mathematics has came a long way in 2000 years.

hehehehe..

Western mathematics is still essentially derived from ancient Greece, and Euclid's work is still the best guide to the fundamental principles of the subject. The fault that was made in the past was to try to force it upon children - public schoolboys, as young as twelve years old, were beaten until they could repeat Euclid's proofs by heart - while the work was originally intended for adults who wanted to explore philosophy and the meaning of life.

"The refrain of modern science is 'We now understand almost everything, and have explained almost everything', but the original purpose of geometry was to demonstrate to people that they knew nothing and could explain nothing."

5 years old is pretty good going.

Now for the CCIE. Determination is vital, but if you haven't got enough 'up top' you will spend your whole life trying to pass this exam.

mikeeo

A CCIE under 25 is going to have a tough time in the workforce. I can see maybe a Cisco partner picking them up cheap.

I'll list a few reasons why:

1) Lack of experience.
2) Expensive to insure.
3) Can't rent a car so traveling is out.

The list go on and on, but since Cisco has finally cracked down on importing CCIE's to fulfill the Gold & Silver partner requirement you might see some younger CCIE's.

The days of renting your CCIE numbers to partners is over. Each CCIE is now verified.

NightShade03

mikeeo wrote: »

A CCIE under 25 is going to have a tough time in the workforce. I can see maybe a Cisco partner picking them up cheap.

I'll list a few reasons why:

1) Lack of experience.
2) Expensive to insure.
3) Can't rent a car so traveling is out.

The list go on and on, but since Cisco has finally cracked down on importing CCIE's to fulfill the Gold & Silver partner requirement you might see some younger CCIE's.

The days of renting your CCIE numbers to partners is over. Each CCIE is now verified.

Can you expand on #2, I'm not sure what you mean. I agree that under 25 you might run into difficulties, however that shouldn't deter one from accomplishing something like the CCIE at a young age. I'm studying for mine now and I plan to finish the year I turn 25 (I'm 23 now), so I don't think that it will be impractical.

carboncopy

mikeeo wrote: »

A CCIE under 25 is going to have a tough time in the workforce. I can see maybe a Cisco partner picking them up cheap.

I'll list a few reasons why:

1) Lack of experience.
2) Expensive to insure.
3) Can't rent a car so traveling is out.

The list go on and on, but since Cisco has finally cracked down on importing CCIE's to fulfill the Gold & Silver partner requirement you might see some younger CCIE's.

The days of renting your CCIE numbers to partners is over. Each CCIE is now verified.

Can't rent a car? Why is that?

NightShade03

You can't rent a car under the age of 25...its a law. I think it mostly has to do with insurance purposes. I'm not sure if its a federal or state by state thing (although I would image that its state by state).

carboncopy

NightShade03 wrote: »

You can't rent a car under the age of 25...its a law. I think it mostly has to do with insurance purposes. I'm not sure if its a federal or state by state thing (although I would image that its state by state).

I have been renting cars since I was 21. The only thing is that I have to pay an extra fee. Alamo charges $10 per day, Enterprise charges $20 per day, etc....

I have rented cars in about 5-7 different states with no problems.

NightShade03

It must be a state thing...because in NY they will not give you a rental car under the age of 25.

carboncopy

NightShade03 wrote: »

It must be a state thing...because in NY they will not give you a rental car under the age of 25.

NEW YORK
Dollar: Minimum age to rent: 18 Surcharge for ages 18-24: $15-25/day (varies w/ location)

Village Rent A Car: Minimum age to rent: 18 Surcharge for ages 18-24: $15-55/day

Enterprise: Minimum age to rent: 21 Surcharge varies with location

Thrifty: Minimum age to rent: 21 Surcharge for ages 21-24: $10-25/day (varies w/ location)

National: Minimum age to rent: 21 Surcharge for ages 21-24: $25-50/day (varies w/ location)

NightShade03

I stand corrected....

Not sure why everyone here seems to think that you can't rent under 25...clearly that is mis-information

carboncopy

NightShade03 wrote: »

I stand corrected....

Not sure why everyone here seems to think that you can't rent under 25...clearly that is mis-information

It's probably because it is so expensive that you are better off not doing it.

I flew to Spokane, Washinton to do a migration in one of the Dams and I was scheduled to be there for 3 weeks. 3 weeks @ $25 a day = :0

I got reimbursed for it

mikeeo

Its a corporate thing, major companies won't insure a driver under 25.

You might be able to personally rent a car, but you can't do company business with it.

Remember the big insurance break you got at age 25? there is a reason for that.

14 yrs ago when I entered the IT field as a MCSE on NT3.51 I was told I couldn't travel under the company name because I was 23 yrs old.

If I have a choice between a CCIE that's 23 and 27...I'm going with the 27 yr old 110% of the time.

Now with that said keep doing with what you are doing , experience is the key in the IT field, the more you have the better you are.

Turgon

mikeeo wrote: »

Its a corporate thing, major companies won't insure a driver under 25.

You might be able to personally rent a car, but you can't do company business with it.

Remember the big insurance break you got at age 25? there is a reason for that.

14 yrs ago when I entered the IT field as a MCSE on NT3.51 I was told I couldn't travel under the company name because I was 23 yrs old.

If I have a choice between a CCIE that's 23 and 27...I'm going with the 27 yr old 110% of the time.

Now with that said keep doing with what you are doing , experience is the key in the IT field, the more you have the better you are.

All good advice.

sides14

Major companies is too broad of a statement. I started working at AT&T at 23 and drove a company car and a rental care on company travel. There are many (if any) insurers that would refuse the business of a Fortune 500 company regardless if the person is between 21 and 25. Second, I saw my big insurance break at 30 and not 25 as popularly believed. Third, failure to hire someone too young is the same as not hiring someone more seasoned - age discrimination.

Essendon

Dont have anything useful to say, but are such threads any use at all?

Turgon

sides14 wrote: »

Major companies is too broad of a statement. I started working at AT&T at 23 and drove a company car and a rental care on company travel. There are many (if any) insurers that would refuse the business of a Fortune 500 company regardless if the person is between 21 and 25. Second, I saw my big insurance break at 30 and not 25 as popularly believed. Third, failure to hire someone too young is the same as not hiring someone more seasoned - age discrimination.

Fair comment

mikeeo

sides14 wrote: »

Major companies is too broad of a statement. I started working at AT&T at 23 and drove a company car and a rental care on company travel. There are many (if any) insurers that would refuse the business of a Fortune 500 company regardless if the person is between 21 and 25. Second, I saw my big insurance break at 30 and not 25 as popularly believed. Third, failure to hire someone too young is the same as not hiring someone more seasoned - age discrimination.

Just telling you how I see it and have seen it through out my career.

Doesn't matter to me I'm over 25 and have a CCIE.

yuriz43

mikeeo wrote: »

A CCIE under 25 is going to have a tough time in the workforce. I
The days of renting your CCIE numbers to partners is over. Each CCIE is now verified.

Kind of curious what you mean by this? Would companies simply hire a CCIE for a few months to get discounts on cisco equipment?