How to get a NOC position?

Big Jizay

I have always had a desire to get into networking, but I haven't been able to get a job in this field yet. I've been a helpdesk rep for about a year now troubleshooting proprietary software, and would like to get out! My company does have a NOC department, but the manager is the biggest jerk that I've ever seen, so that isn't an option for me. I guess I could study for my CCNA. What else should I do?

Education:

AAS in Network Technology
AAS in Cisco Systems
A+, Network+, MCSA

Bl8ckr0uter

Big Jizay wrote: »

I have always had a desire to get into networking, but I haven't been able to get a job in this field yet. I've been a helpdesk rep for about a year now troubleshooting proprietary software, and would like to get out! My company does have a NOC department, but the manager is the biggest jerk that I've ever seen, so that isn't an option for me. I guess I could study for my CCNA. What else should I do?

Education:

AAS in Network Technology
AAS in Cisco Systems
A+, Network+, MCSA

I am currently in the final stages for a NOC job and I have been looking for NOC jobs for quite sometime. I think that most hiring managers basically want the total package for there "Low-Level" engineer jobs and somewhat specialized skills (but very high level) for the "High-Level" engineers.

The job I am in the running for wanted A+, N+, CCNA, and MCSA. They wanted someone who is willing to work on a little bit of everything: Servers, (linux/windows/unix) Routers, Switches, Nodes, etc. A network engineer (lVl 2) at this job requires the CCNP and CCDP or CCSP. They wanted high level knoweldge of netscreen firewalls as well. A network engineer (LVL 3) required a CCIE. A network engineer (LVL 4) requires a CCIE and JNCIE.


Of course there are other types of jobs in the NOC. Database Engineers, Linux Engineers, Windows Engineers, and the list goes on. Since I want to get into networking my primary focus in terms of certifications and degrees tend to be towards networking. What is your focus? What do you want to be in the NOC for? Do you want to route tickets? Fix circuits? Maintain Databases? Windows? Linux? Lindows? Where is you passion?

While I don't have the job yet, I think most NOC workers would agree that you need to find you passion and be the best at it. Is it truly not possible to move to your companies NOC? Do you know anyone in the NOC ? How about the NOC manager? Have/Can you talk with anyone there to see about moving over, or at least what they would want from you?

human151

Definetlely work on your CCNA.

I see you have your MCSA, you do not want to do Sys admin? I think thats the way to go, rather working in a NOC, atleast imo. NOCS are 24/7 and the NOC techs do not ussually get to perform any configurations or real toubleshooting.

But then again if your just starting out its not bad.

Big Jizay

The NOC at my job sounds different than the NOC that you described. At my job, the NOC mostly monitors routers, switches, and some servers. They mostly escalate issues to the Networks department, and don't physically address the issue themselves. Some of the NOC techs are not happy there because they basically don't get to touch anything. These NOC techs don't really have specific titles like Windows engineer or Linux engineer. They all have access to perform all duties assigned to the NOC.

I know all of the guys that work in the NOC, and they all want to get out of there . Not very inviting. I know the NOC manager a little bit, and we've never had any problems with each other. However, I've seen and heard the way that he treats his employees, and in my opinion, it's not acceptable at all. He screams and curses at them!

My passion would be either Linux or Windows engineering. The few NOC's that I've heard about, it seems that Linux is very important. I guess I could study that as well. So if I decided to go with Linux engineering as far as a NOC, what should be the next steps that I take to possibly make this happen?

Panzer919

Big Jizay wrote: »

The NOC at my job sounds different than the NOC that you described. At my job, the NOC mostly monitors routers, switches, and some servers. They mostly escalate issues to the Networks department, and don't physically address the issue themselves. Some of the NOC techs are not happy there because they basically don't get to touch anything. These NOC techs don't really have specific titles like Windows engineer or Linux engineer. They all have access to perform all duties assigned to the NOC.

I know all of the guys that work in the NOC, and they all want to get out of there . Not very inviting. I know the NOC manager a little bit, and we've never had any problems with each other. However, I've seen and heard the way that he treats his employees, and in my opinion, it's not acceptable at all. He screams and curses at them!

My passion would be either Linux or Windows engineering. The few NOC's that I've heard about, it seems that Linux is very important. I guess I could study that as well. So if I decided to go with Linux engineering as far as a NOC, what should be the next steps that I take to possibly make this happen?

sounds like the NOC manager is a slave driver. There is a local bank here in ohio that their NOC is like that. If you want to get into windows look for helpdesk positons while you get your certs or what ever in linux/windows. helpdesk is the trenches of the IT industry and its not always bad. who knows you may get in and have the admin leave then you can just try and apply for their position.

Big Jizay

human151 wrote: »

Definetlely work on your CCNA.

I see you have your MCSA, you do not want to do Sys admin? I think thats the way to go, rather working in a NOC, atleast imo. NOCS are 24/7 and the NOC techs do not ussually get to perform any configurations or real toubleshooting.

But then again if your just starting out its not bad.

Actually, that would be sweet to skip the NOC and be a Sys or Network Admin. If I could do it, I definitely would. Unfortunately, I think that I have to pay my dues as being a NOC tech, or a Desktop Support Tech. I think Sys Admin stuff is cool, but my passion is in networking. I'm concerned that the longer I go on the Sys Admin road, the harder it'll be to get off of that road and on to the networking road later.

Big Jizay

Panzer919 wrote: »

sounds like the NOC manager is a slave driver. There is a local bank here in ohio that their NOC is like that. If you want to get into windows look for helpdesk positons while you get your certs or what ever in linux/windows. helpdesk is the trenches of the IT industry and its not always bad. who knows you may get in and have the admin leave then you can just try and apply for their position.

You're right, helpdesk isn't all bad. Sometimes I have a good time laughing about users . There are rumors going around that the NOC manager is going to another company. I've been waiting around to see if he leaves or not. If you've seen the movie Problem Child, it'll be like when Junior finally left the orphanage .

murdatapes

Big Jizay wrote: »

The NOC at my job sounds different than the NOC that you described. At my job, the NOC mostly monitors routers, switches, and some servers. They mostly escalate issues to the Networks department, and don't physically address the issue themselves. Some of the NOC techs are not happy there because they basically don't get to touch anything. These NOC techs don't really have specific titles like Windows engineer or Linux engineer. They all have access to perform all duties assigned to the NOC.

I know all of the guys that work in the NOC, and they all want to get out of there . Not very inviting. I know the NOC manager a little bit, and we've never had any problems with each other. However, I've seen and heard the way that he treats his employees, and in my opinion, it's not acceptable at all. He screams and curses at them!

My passion would be either Linux or Windows engineering. The few NOC's that I've heard about, it seems that Linux is very important. I guess I could study that as well. So if I decided to go with Linux engineering as far as a NOC, what should be the next steps that I take to possibly make this happen?

All true. Trust me. Been in the NOC for almost 5 years. Great, great starting point, but my man, please do not get to comfortable with the job. That's how I messed up. Thinking when I got the job, this was the end of my job searching for a very long time. The problem was I didn't pick back up my cert learning until 2008 (when I started my MS track), but my last cert before that was 2004 (network+). I figured this was the job of my dreams. Which at the time it was. I was learning severs, monitoring network devices, reading DoS attack outputs, monitoring network traffic, building severs, fixing raid issues. Cool as ****. Problem is, im still doing the same damn thing. Seen people I started with leave to be a sys admin in another departments, or leave cause they picked up certs and leaving to be a sys admin, or network admin at another company, and my dumb ass thinking, "where's everyone going." I finally figured out that they were going to get some money, and learn on the job, what they have been studying. I realized this in 2008 when I started for my MCSA. I love my job and very very fortunate to have one, but you really never get to touch the good stuff. You may get a taste or a sprinkle during your hours of work, but never get to get into it.

I would never take away my experience I have gotten on my job, but in the NOC, you hunger for more. So just this year I picked back up my certs and learning more (mcse track). But again I stopped after my MCSA (last year) thinking I was threw again. See in the NOC, if you let them, they will keep you there. But I have learned in this IT thing, that you get your knowledge (1 year or so) and you move on, until you find that job you been wanting. On the way you are picking some invaluable experience.

Keep studying man, don't ever stop. Every cert you get, should be looking to raise the bar in the job market as well as you did when studied for the cert you obtain or just studied for. And don't worry about jerks, they all over IT. Some guys help you, some guys brush you off. Shouldn't matter to you. Just keep learning, ask questions, take risk, and when you get to the NOC, obtain the knowledge (1 year or so), then look to move up or on.

Big Jizay

murdatapes wrote: »

All true. Trust me. Been in the NOC for almost 5 years. Great, great starting point, but my man, please do not get to comfortable with the job. That's how I messed up. Thinking when I got the job, this was the end of my job searching for a very long time. The problem was I didn't pick back up my cert learning until 2008 (when I started my MS track), but my last cert before that was 2004 (network+). I figured this was the job of my dreams. Which at the time it was. I was learning severs, monitoring network devices, reading DoS attack outputs, monitoring network traffic, building severs, fixing raid issues. Cool as ****. Problem is, im still doing the same damn thing. Seen people I started with leave to be a sys admin in another departments, or leave cause they picked up certs and leaving to be a sys admin, or network admin at another company, and my dumb ass thinking, "where's everyone going." I finally figured out that they were going to get some money, and learn on the job, what they have been studying. I realized this in 2008 when I started for my MCSA. I love my job, but you really never get to touch the good stuff. You may get a taste or a sprinkle during your hours of work, but never get to get into it.

I would never take away my experience I have gotten on my job, but in the NOC, you hunger for more. So just this year I picked back up my certs and learning more (mcse track). See in the NOC, if you let them, they will keep you there. But I have learned in this IT thing, that you get your knowledge (1 year or so) and you move on, until you find that job you been wanting. On the way you are picking some invaluable experience.

Keep studying man, don't ever stop. Every cert you get, should be looking to raise the bar in the job market as well as you did when studied for the cert you obtain or just studied for. And don't worry about jerks, they all over IT. Some guys help you, some guys brush you off. Shouldn't matter to you. Just keep learning, ask questions, take risk, and when you get to the NOC, obtain the knowledge (1 year or so), then look to move up or on.

Good advice! That's pretty much been my plan: To work in a job for 1 or 2 years, and move on to the next. Also, to keep receiving certs. It'll be officially 1 year since I was hired into the helpdesk at the end of Sept. I'm hoping to get into a NOC position within the next 1 or 2 months. In my first post, I stated my degrees and certs. Is that enough to get a NOC position? Also, what types of companies have NOC departments? It seems that ISP's do.

murdatapes

Big Jizay wrote: »

Good advice! That's pretty much been my plan: To work in a job for 1 or 2 years, and move on to the next. Also, to keep receiving certs. It'll be officially 1 year since I was hired into the helpdesk at the end of Sept. I'm hoping to get into a NOC position within the next 1 or 2 months. In my first post, I stated my degrees and certs. Is that enough to get a NOC position? Also, what types of companies have NOC departments? It seems that ISP's do.

More than enough to get in there. Web Hosting companies and ISP's. Also a lot of government jobs. Like IT departments for school sectors, or state.

Big Jizay

murdatapes wrote: »

More than enough to get in there. Web Hosting companies and ISP's. Also a lot of government jobs. Like IT departments for school sectors, or state.

I'll look up these types of companies online and see if they are hiring. One more question murdatapes: What kind of monitoring tools does your NOC use? In my company, they mostly use Nagios, Big Brother, and Orion. I'm not an expert with these, but I basically know how to use them.

murdatapes

We have a in house software called singularity or SMS that one of our Unix engineers wrote. Yeah ours is not all that sophisticated. Monitors server services, and alerts you in red with its completely down. Links to our ticketing system. Look up government departments in your city. Go to there website. They should have an IT department/NOC. I interviewed for a sys admin job for the city I live in their IT department about a year 1/2 ago. Couldn't hire me cause of the budget (which you will find a lot of government jobs go through). They over saw the servers and network for the city.

Big Jizay

murdatapes wrote: »

We have a in house software called singularity or SMS that one of our Unix engineers wrote. Yeah ours is not all that sophisticated. Monitors server services, and alerts you in red with its completely down. Links to our ticketing system. Look up government departments in your city. Go to there website. They should have an IT department/NOC. I interviewed for a sys admin job for the city I live in their IT department about a year 1/2 ago. Couldn't hire me cause of the budget (which you will find a lot of government jobs go through). They over saw the servers and network for the city.

That's how Big Brother works, as it shows a node as red when it is down. I'll definitely look up the .gov websites.

Big Jizay

Thanks for the advice everyone. I am also wondering about what type of information should I study about to enhance my chances of working in a NOC. Not necessarily for a cert, but some knowledge that would impress the interviewer and actually help me a lot in a NOC position. Does anybody have any advice on this?

tdean

murdatapes wrote: »

We have a in house software called singularity or SMS that one of our Unix engineers wrote. Yeah ours is not all that sophisticated. Monitors server services, and alerts you in red with its completely down. Links to our ticketing system. Look up government departments in your city. Go to there website. They should have an IT department/NOC. I interviewed for a sys admin job for the city I live in their IT department about a year 1/2 ago. Couldn't hire me cause of the budget (which you will find a lot of government jobs go through). They over saw the servers and network for the city.

interesting. every city or town has this? i've been asking people about that, saying the city must have computers and a network, but no one knew where to ask or look. i looked on my towns site and there are no job postings. these are the hidden jobs i know nothing of.

CChN

You want to work in a NOC? I hope you have a strong dislike for sleep.

Big Jizay

CChN wrote: »

You want to work in a NOC? I hope you have a strong dislike for sleep.

Uh oh, that doesn't sound good . Is there something I should know about a NOC that I probably don't know?

JavonR

Big Jizay wrote: »

Uh oh, that doesn't sound good . Is there something I should know about a NOC that I probably don't know?

Depending on the type of NOC and the company, you can expect a fair bit of shifting and overtime. NOCs are also usually 24/7, so in rare situations you can go 8 hrs (or less depending on local labor laws) in between shifts (work till 12am, start at 8 next day etc)..

Again, it depends on the company, but what I described are realistic expectations you should have.

Big Jizay

JavonR wrote: »

Depending on the type of NOC and the company, you can expect a fair bit of shifting and overtime. NOCs are also usually 24/7, so in rare situations you can go 8 hrs (or less depending on local labor laws) in between shifts (work till 12am, start at 8 next day etc)..

Again, it depends on the company, but what I described are realistic expectations you should have.

Thanks for the info Javon. As much as the scheduling sucks for a NOC, unfortunately I think it's still something that I should do in order to get the experience I need to become a network admin one day.

networker050184

Our NOC guys only have to work their assigned shifts. Its the other groups that the NOC calls for escalation that has to work the long hours. The other groups work all day and if something goes wrong in the middle of the night or weekend its them that has to fix it. When the end of their shift comes the next NOC guy comes on and the other groups remain troubleshooting the issue. The NOC guys do have to work after hours, but that would be their regular shift and its not like they are working extra.

Big Jizay

networker050184 wrote: »

Our NOC guys only have to work their assigned shifts. Its the other groups that the NOC calls for escalation that has to work the long hours. The other groups work all day and if something goes wrong in the middle of the night or weekend its them that has to fix it. When the end of their shift comes the next NOC guy comes on and the other groups remain troubleshooting the issue. The NOC guys do have to work after hours, but that would be their regular shift and its not like they are working extra.

It's the same way at the company I work for. The NOC techs have the same hours and same days off every week. They rarely do any overtime. In fact, their boss would have a fit if they did a lot of overtime. Our networks dept and sys admins are the ones that put in the long hours.

JavonR

Big Jizay wrote: »

It's the same way at the company I work for. The NOC techs have the same hours and same days off every week. They rarely do any overtime. In fact, their boss would have a fit if they did a lot of overtime. Our networks dept and sys admins are the ones that put in the long hours.

It's pretty hit or miss in my area, the NOC I work in now has the same hours/days off every week. My last job had quite a bit of shifting, and my co-worker has a friend who works for a telco noc here doing three 12 hour shifts weekly + uber amounts of overtime. Hopefully you can find something that works for you.. good luck

Panzer919

We pretty much have a set schedule but depending on your skill set OT can be available. Im on Engineering On call once every 6 weeks and I'm supposed to work 4x10 but i usually end up working 6x10.

tpatt100

What have I noticed in my area? Unix is a huge plus. Plenty of Windows Admins but not as many Unix guys. Get good with Unix and Windows and you will find its easier interviewing for a NOC position. At my last place of employment I tend to view our Unix guys as the saying "In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" Reason? We have plenty of people with Windows experience but hardly anybody with above average experience in Unix.

When the contract ended who did the new company hire on to stay? You got it the three Unix guys.

Big Jizay

tpatt100 wrote: »

What have I noticed in my area? Unix is a huge plus. Plenty of Windows Admins but not as many Unix guys. Get good with Unix and Windows and you will find its easier interviewing for a NOC position. At my last place of employment I tend to view our Unix guys as the saying "In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" Reason? We have plenty of people with Windows experience but hardly anybody with above average experience in Unix.

When the contract ended who did the new company hire on to stay? You got it the three Unix guys.

Unix is respected a lot more in the NOC at my job than Windows. I should be studying linux/unix, but i'm still stuck on getting my MCSE. Maybe i'll study MCSE and linux/unix at the same time.

phantasm

human151 wrote: »

Definetlely work on your CCNA.

I see you have your MCSA, you do not want to do Sys admin? I think thats the way to go, rather working in a NOC, atleast imo. NOCS are 24/7 and the NOC techs do not ussually get to perform any configurations or real toubleshooting.

But then again if your just starting out its not bad.

Ok. The amount of troubleshooting you will do performs on the company you work for. I'm a NOC tech and have worked on both sides of our floor, My involvement as a Tier I NOC tech has been everything from building out SVI's across multiple devices and states to test logical routing issues to testing on frame relay ckts. We also run 911 services which we test ourselves when a physical layer problem is detected. I've even reconfigured a switch in another state. Most NOC jobs I've seen you do nothing but make tickets... my job on the other hand... we do it all except dispatching.

In my current role I monitor network alarms and respond to outages nationwide, whether it be a down trunk or device. Also the 911 services and other managed customer services.

It will all depend on which company.

Big Jizay

At my job, there is a NOC tech that is leaving the company to work in another NOC somewhere else. Another person in our NOC dept has an interview today and most are expecting him to get that job in another company. In other words, one position will definitely be open, but it seems that two positions might be open soon as well. Should I apply for one of those jobs? The NOC boss is a jerk, but rumors are going around that he might leave soon too. If he doesn't leave, should I still go after one of the NOC positions? Should I just put up with his attitude for one year?

4XJunkie

Big Jizay wrote: »

At my job, there is a NOC tech that is leaving the company to work in another NOC somewhere else. Another person in our NOC dept has an interview today and most are expecting him to get that job in another company. In other words, one position will definitely be open, but it seems that two positions might be open soon as well. Should I apply for one of those jobs? The NOC boss is a jerk, but rumors are going around that he might leave soon too. If he doesn't leave, should I still go after one of the NOC positions? Should I just put up with his attitude for one year?

Ok, I am going to be blunt here. So I apologize in advance.

You are never going to like everyone you work with. That is the business world. You need to learn to get over this "he is a jerk" thing. It will only hinder your performance. You need to grow thick skin and separate work and personal life. It isn't personal, it is business. So what if he is a jerk? Shut up, do your job, go home. Simple as that.

Why on earth would you let someone hinder your career? You have a foot in the door at your company. This job you say is along the lines of what you want to do. So apply for it. Don't miss your opportunity because "someone is mean". That is absolutely ridiculous- risking your future and avancement because of how someone feels.

If you turn down opportunities, jobs, etc because you don't like someone, they are mean, they don't like you, etc... then I am afraid your career will remain stagnant. You need to realize that the world doesn't hand anyone anything. If you want it, you take it. You improve yourself.

Personal anecdote here. I had a manager who did not like me, period. So he tried to get me to quit. He assigned me more work than everyone else, had me go do things near impossible above my capabilities. But instead of whining about how he doesn't like me and is not fair, all it did was beef up my resume. And I found a new job, making more than him. And honestly, I need to thank him for providing me the opportunity to extend my skill set beyond that position.

TLDR version? Of course apply for one of those jobs. Don't be intimidated by someone, and don't risk your career advancement because someone "is a jerk".

Big Jizay

4XJunkie wrote: »

Ok, I am going to be blunt here. So I apologize in advance.

You are never going to like everyone you work with. That is the business world. You need to learn to get over this "he is a jerk" thing. It will only hinder your performance. You need to grow thick skin and separate work and personal life. It isn't personal, it is business. So what if he is a jerk? Shut up, do your job, go home. Simple as that.

Why on earth would you let someone hinder your career? You have a foot in the door at your company. This job you say is along the lines of what you want to do. So apply for it. Don't miss your opportunity because "someone is mean". That is absolutely ridiculous- risking your future and avancement because of how someone feels.

If you turn down opportunities, jobs, etc because you don't like someone, they are mean, they don't like you, etc... then I am afraid your career will remain stagnant. You need to realize that the world doesn't hand anyone anything. If you want it, you take it. You improve yourself.

Personal anecdote here. I had a manager who did not like me, period. So he tried to get me to quit. He assigned me more work than everyone else, had me go do things near impossible above my capabilities. But instead of whining about how he doesn't like me and is not fair, all it did was beef up my resume. And I found a new job, making more than him. And honestly, I need to thank him for providing me the opportunity to extend my skill set beyond that position.

TLDR version? Of course apply for one of those jobs. Don't be intimidated by someone, and don't risk your career advancement because someone "is a jerk".

You make a lot of sense. The "jerk" thing has stopped me from getting other great jobs in the past. A promotion opportunity would come up, but I would back down from it because of, you guessed it, the boss was a "jerk". This procedure hasn't really been working for me . In other words, I agree with what you said, and I am going to apply for the job. Suck it up for a year or two, get my experience, and get out of there. I've been in helpdesk for a year now, and since then, my company has gotten rid of half of the helpdesk staff, one by one, and hasn't hired anyone new. In fact, I'm the last guy that was hired in our helpdesk. I, including everyone in the NOC and helpdesk, believes that the helpdesk will be no more at the end of the year. The NOC on the other hand, has hired a few new people in the last three months. Another reason to go to the NOC.

4XJunkie

Absolutely.

Try and get in on your new boss' good side. Who knows, he may not be as big a jerk as you think.

And if he is, just remember- you are adding onto your resume, improving yourself.

Whatever you do, always act professional. I am not sure where you live but, the IT community out where I live ( a college city) is not too large. Everyone knows everyone. For instance, the guy who blew up and walked out of the position I am in has 6 years IT experience.. and the only thing he can get is first line entry level call center. Too many people know people who knew/know him.

Big Jizay

4XJunkie wrote: »

Absolutely.

Try and get in on your new boss' good side. Who knows, he may not be as big a jerk as you think.

And if he is, just remember- you are adding onto your resume, improving yourself.

Whatever you do, always act professional. I am not sure where you live but, the IT community out where I live ( a college city) is not too large. Everyone knows everyone. For instance, the guy who blew up and walked out of the position I am in has 6 years IT experience.. and the only thing he can get is first line entry level call center. Too many people know people who knew/know him.

WOW . I feel sorry for that guy . I live in California - Bay Area, the IT capital of the world. Fortunately, I wouldn't have it as bad as that guy, but that's still a scary thought. I would move away if I was him.

I feel that the experience that I would get from that position is vital to my success. I feel that it's the link between where I am now, and later becoming a jr. net admin, or net admin.