Which sec cert should I tackle next?

dubious

Got my Sec+ today!

Anyway, after this I will get my MCSA (1 exam left) and then take 70-214 for a MCSA: Security.

I was just wondering which cert I should go for after the MCSA: Security. I would do SSCP but I don't have the necessary exp yet.

What would you suggest? And yeah, I know experience, experince, experience. I plan on keep getting certs regardless of my work status.

JDMurray

Congrats on getting your Security+!!

If you make it as far as MCSA: Security then why not go for MCSE: Security?

dubious

Thanks!

Umm... I never actually thought about going after an MCSE. I wonder whether I should do that before I get started on my Cisco track.
I'll think about it!

JDMurray

Honestly, no job recruiter or human resources director has ever heard of the MCSA; all they know is MCSE. You'd be much better off job-hunting-wise if you went for MCSE: Security.

And as for Cisco, don't stop at the CCNA, as it's way to common now. Go at least for the CCSP.

dubious

Of course I won't stop at CCNA. I only want to get the MCSE just to sort of "have it." What I'm really interested in are Linux, Cisco and security. I love anything that has an efficient command line.

I think I will deviate from my goal and get the MCSE just to boost my marketability. My ultimate goals are CCIE and CISSP; not the certs themselves but rather the knowledge that comes with them

JDMurray

mastro wrote:

I think I will deviate from my goal and get the MCSE just to boost my marketability. My ultimate goals are CCIE and CISSP; not the certs themselves but rather the knowledge that comes with them

That's the best attitude to have. Certification programs are a great way to learn very complex and complicated subjects without first having years of experience, or attempting to complete an advanced academic degree.

Good luck!

dubious

Roger that!

By the way, I am currently completing my A.S. in Computer Science and then starting on my BSIT.

JDMurray

If I can get a student loan, come January I'll be starting the masters program in Information Security at Cappella University (http://www.capella.edu/schools_programs/technology/masters/information_security.aspx).

Gonna be lotsa, lotsa work...

dubious

jdmurray wrote:

If I can get a student loan, come January I'll be starting the masters program in Information Security at Cappella University (http://www.capella.edu/schools_programs/technology/masters/information_security.aspx).

Gonna be lotsa, lotsa work...

Before you do that go to:

http://www.capellauniversitysucks.us/

It was poined out to me by people from this forum actually.

JDMurray

astro1 wrote:

Before you do that go to:

http://www.capellauniversitysucks.us/

It was poined out to me by people from this forum actually.

This web site basically says nothing. It seems to be put together by an angry, anonymous individual who has had some problems obtaining their educational records from Capella, and who is also quite critical of their previous web site design and the WebCT app used to access course material. There are very few posts in the site's forum, and those present don't contain any useful information. There is also no identification as to who are the owners and content providers of this site.

I would speculate that whatever the truth is behind this guy's problem you won't find enough objective information on this site to tell if his complaints are valid or he's just full of sh*t. There is no educational institution on Earth that doesn't have dissatisfied students/faculty.

If I get into Capella I'll report on TechExams my experience each quarter--and I'll be objective.

Cherper

One thing to be aware of is that Capella isn't accredited by the groups that rate universities and their programs. That doesn't mean a lot, except if you try to transfer your credits to a real (Brick and Mortar) school, but it always raises a red flag when you start to look at the instructors and the classes.

I would recommend that you look at University of Phoenix instead. They are at least accredited.

dubious

Cherper wrote:

One thing to be aware of is that Capella isn't accredited by the groups that rate universities and their programs. That doesn't mean a lot, except if you try to transfer your credits to a real (Brick and Mortar) school, but it always raises a red flag when you start to look at the instructors and the classes.

I would recommend that you look at University of Phoenix instead. They are at least accredited.

Accredited? Yes. Expensive? You better believe it!

Here is what I found to be the most efficient way of getting a BSIT:

Take all the elective and basic classes at a community college for around $60/credit (compared to over $200/credit with capella and over $300/credit with UOP). You can take those classes online too! Most community colleges offer many online classes. Then you can transfer your credits to a state university and finish your degree in 2-3 years. This method will be much, much cheaper than any and every online for-profit institution. The only down side is having to go onsite for 2-3 years.

dubious

jdmurray wrote:

astro1 wrote:

Before you do that go to:

http://www.capellauniversitysucks.us/

It was poined out to me by people from this forum actually.

This web site basically says nothing. It seems to be put together by an angry, anonymous individual who has had some problems obtaining their educational records from Capella, and who is also quite critical of their previous web site design and the WebCT app used to access course material. There are very few posts in the site's forum, and those present don't contain any useful information. There is also no identification as to who are the owners and content providers of this site.

I would speculate that whatever the truth is behind this guy's problem you won't find enough objective information on this site to tell if his complaints are valid or he's just full of sh*t. There is no educational institution on Earth that doesn't have dissatisfied students/faculty.

If I get into Capella I'll report on TechExams my experience each quarter--and I'll be objective.

There is a fine line between a biased individual and several government agencies going after an institution.

Plus my biggest beef with Capella is, "what the hell is capella?"

That is exactly what employers will say when they see a degree for Capella. They have no reason to know the school and it's by no means a well-known school (like UOP), at least not yet.

dubious

Also, by talking to several people who go to UOP I understand that their grading is very relaxed. I don't know about you guys but I want to not have a 4.00 GPA because that would mean that I know everything there is to know about the material when in reality this is not the case.

Cherper

astro1 wrote:

Accredited? Yes. Expensive? You better believe it!

Here is what I found to be the most efficient way of getting a BSIT:

Take all the elective and basic classes at a community college for around $60/credit (compared to over $200/credit with capella and over $300/credit with UOP). You can take those classes online too! Most community colleges offer many online classes. Then you can transfer your credits to a state university and finish your degree in 2-3 years. This method will be much, much cheaper than any and every online for-profit institution. The only down side is having to go onsite for 2-3 years.

That works great if you need a bachelors degree, but won't do a thing if you are looking to get a masters, which I was talking about.

I will admit that UOP is expensive, but getting an advanced degree is expensive anywhere.

dubious

Cherper wrote:

astro1 wrote:

Accredited? Yes. Expensive? You better believe it!

Here is what I found to be the most efficient way of getting a BSIT:

Take all the elective and basic classes at a community college for around $60/credit (compared to over $200/credit with capella and over $300/credit with UOP). You can take those classes online too! Most community colleges offer many online classes. Then you can transfer your credits to a state university and finish your degree in 2-3 years. This method will be much, much cheaper than any and every online for-profit institution. The only down side is having to go onsite for 2-3 years.

That works great if you need a bachelors degree, but won't do a thing if you are looking to get a masters, which I was talking about.

I will admit that UOP is expensive, but getting an advanced degree is expensive anywhere.

Well, my idea is to get a BSIT first and then go for a Master's. It will take more time, yes. However, it will also ensure that I am properly educated.

UOP is the biggest online institution but many emplyers see it as a diploma mill. As I said, it is not something you attend to get a sound education. Moreover, IT/IS is something that doesn't really facilitate distance learning.

I don't know, this is just the way I look at things. I prefer quality over quantity and speed. We both hate paper certified MCSEs, correct?

By the way, the forum at http://www.uopsucks.com/ is pretty crowded.

Cherper

astro1 wrote:

Well, my idea is to get a BSIT first and then go for a Master's. It will take more time, yes. However, it will also ensure that I am properly educated.

UOP is the biggest online institution but many emplyers see it as a diploma mill. As I said, it is not something you attend to get a sound education. Moreover, IT/IS is something that doesn't really facilitate distance learning.

I don't know, this is just the way I look at things. I prefer quality over quantity and speed. We both hate paper certified MCSEs, correct?

By the way, the forum at http://www.uopsucks.com/ is pretty crowded.

I would agree that it is better to have both, I already have my bachelors, and 4 classes towards a masters, but just don't feel the need to get it at this time.

I will agree that IT/IS is something that you can't really do distance, but there is always a diploma mill somewhere that will take your money gladly.

I wouldn't advocate UOP instead of a real university, but I would over Capella. Both have their detractors, and much of it is probably deserved.

dubious

Yeah, online institutions have one advantage and it is the fact that they're fast paced. If I had to pick between UOP and Capella I would pick UOP because the name sounds more credible. UOP has on campus learning and the employer will have no way of knowing whether you took the online road (if you don't put it on your resume ).

For me, well, I'm young and I have time for an education.

JDMurray

UOP is a very expensive diploma mill and the degrees are not well respected in the IT industry (IMHO).

Capella has the only Information Security program that is fully endorsed by (ISC)2. Maybe a recruiter has never heard of Capella U., but they have heard of the CISSP.

As for schools with InfoSec programs that are certified by the NSA, such as Norwich (http://www3.norwich.edu/msia/index.html) and Nova Southeastern (http://www.scis.nova.edu/Masters/Academic_Programs/Academic_Programs_MSIS.html), this sounds great for military and government, but I don't know if this is something the private sector cares about.

JDMurray

astro1 wrote:

I prefer quality over quantity and speed. We both hate paper certified MCSEs, correct?

All MCSE's are "paper MCSEs." The MS cert exams have no hands-on component to prove you know anything about configuring/troubleshooting a Microsoft network. Learn it all through experience, or memorize a few accurate braindumps, and either way Microsoft still hands you your "MCSE paper."

astro1 wrote:

By the way, the forum at http://www.uopsucks.com/ is pretty crowded.

I don't even need to look. I've personally heard so many bad things from UOP students, former instructors, and one administrative office worker that I would consider Fred's Bait, Tack, Feed, and School of IT over UOP.

dubious

jdmurray wrote:

astro1 wrote:

I prefer quality over quantity and speed. We both hate paper certified MCSEs, correct?

All MCSE's are "paper MCSEs." The MS cert exams have no hands-on component to prove you know anything about configuring/troubleshooting a Microsoft network. Learn it all through experience, or memorize a few accurate braindumps, and either way Microsoft still hands you your "MCSE paper."

By paper certified I meant unqualified individuals who do not possess the technical prowess which the MCSE certifies.

jdmurray wrote:

astro1 wrote:

By the way, the forum at http://www.uopsucks.com/ is pretty crowded.

I don't even need to look. I've personally heard so many bad things from UOP students, former instructors, and one administrative office worker that I would consider Fred's Bait, Tack, Feed, and School of IT over UOP.

UOP is prertty bad which is exactly why I have reservations about Capella.

JDMurray

astro1 wrote:

By paper certified I meant unqualified individuals who do not possess the technical prowess which the MCSE certifies.

I have seen the term paper certs used to indicate this, but what is the opposite of a paper cert? A rock cert? A hard cert? It just seems to me like an expression that doesn't quite fit what it is used for. It's probably derived form the expression "it's only a paper moon."

astro1 wrote:

UOP is prertty bad which is exactly why I have reservations about Capella.

I don't understand this either. UOP and Capella are two different organizations with seperate business and administrative systems. How can you possibly assume that beause one has a seemingly poor reputation that the other does as well? I don't understand how you see UOP and Capella as connected in this way. If you think UCLA is bad do you believe that automatically makes USC bad as well?

dubious

jdmurray wrote:

astro1 wrote:

UOP is prertty bad which is exactly why I have reservations about Capella.

I don't understand this either. UOP and Capella are two different organizations with seperate business and administrative systems. How can you possibly assume that beause one has a seemingly poor reputation that the other does as well? I don't understand how you see UOP and Capella as connected in this way. If you think UCLA is bad do you believe that automatically makes USC bad as well?

They're two different organizations that do the same thing. UOP started this distance learning fad and several years after Capella followed. UOP has had more time to adjust to the new discipline and yet they still do not have their things straight. Capella has had less time and from what people say, it is not much different than UOP.

Capella has not had time to establish themselves as a somewhat credible institution (like UOP). In the end a degree from UOP is looked upon in better light than a degree from Capella if only because of the name.

Of course I'm not trying to discourage you from attending. I'm just telling you why I would not attend. Take everything away and I still would not attend just because of the price.

JDMurray

astro1 wrote:

They're two different organizations that do the same thing.

And therefore if one is bad they must both be bad? That's not reason born of Western logic; it's thought more akin to sympathetic magic.

astro1 wrote:

Take everything away and I still would not attend just because of the price.

You would not spend $25K over 2-3 years to earn a degree that can get you a $100K+/year job? I don't understand that "logic" either.

I found a personal web site that seems to be rather "pro" both Capella and UOP: http://****.com/capella/

dubious

jdmurray wrote:

astro1 wrote:

They're two different organizations that do the same thing.

And therefore if one is bad they must both be bad? That's not reason born of Western logic; it's thought more akin to sympathetic magic.

Of all people, you building a straw man?

jdmurray wrote:

astro1 wrote:

Take everything away and I still would not attend just because of the price.

You would not spend $25K over 2-3 years to earn a degree that can get you a $100K+/year job? I don't understand that "logic" either.

I found a personal web site that seems to be rather "pro" both Capella and UOP: http://****.com/capella/

How exactly is a degree from a small texas for-profit school going to make you $100K+/year? Do you mean after 10 years of experience?

And by the way, for me the price is $48,825 for a Bachelor's.

Question: What kind of education do you currently have?

JDMurray

astro1 wrote:

Of all people, you building a straw man?

I'd say one more of "wicker."

astro1 wrote:

How exactly is a degree from a small texas for-profit school going to make you $100K+/year? Do you mean after 10 years of experience?

Who is in Texas? UOP? Capella is in Minnesota.

And I already have the experience; I just need a higher degree to compete with other job candidates that have a masters. My security track is that of a software engineer and not an administrator.

Ten9t6

Well....First...Someone said Capella was not accredited...It is...Everybody has their own opinions. Some like Fords and some like Chevys. I don't care where you stand on a subject, I can find a website on the internet to support both sides.

I have attended both schools...and I can tell you that neither one could be considered a paper mill. All the classes that I have attended in person at different colleges have been easier than the online courses. I don't think there are many classes that are hard, if you apply yourself. The online courses are at a much faster pace and you are doing something almost every day. These types of classes are catered to "adult learners", not students straight out of high school. There is a very big difference.

These schools are very expensive...but you pay for the convenience. It would be more expensive for me to have to quit work or adjust my shifts to attend a standard college. All of this just so I can have face to face conversations with instructors or people straight out of High School....I would rather do the stuff online at my own pace. I don't need the structure that some people like. That is not a ding on those that like the structure......I just learn better outside of that.

Of these two colleges, I attend the UOP first. (5 classes). Then I transferred to Capella because that is the school that I plan to do my Masters through (information Security). I stayed with them for two classes and transferred back to the UOP. I still plan to go back to them for the Masters, but I just didn't like the pace of the undergraduate courses. (too slow).

Both schools are great and accredited. You just need to find which one is better for you. And for whoever said that these courses would push you into the 6 figures.....I hope you have the experience to back it....or hope your in the right spot at the right time...I am getting close...but the market is tuff..I don't plan to cross that point until I am working on my Masters....(or pick up multiple IEs)..But, if you can do it...more power to you. I hope you can.

sorry for the long post....I have been off the board for a while...

JDMurray

Thanks for the opinions Ten9t6. You reflect what several other Capella grads that I have talked with have said. Very fast paced, good courses and materials, and not for people with little discipline or experience with academia. You must really want the knowledge and degree or you won't be able to keep up. I also work full-time and can't fit a traditional college masters program into my schedule. And none of the universities local to me yet have an InfoSec program anyway.

The only thing I disagree with you is that it is expensive. $25K for a masters degree in a good InfoSec program is a down-right bargain in my experience.

I also said that UOP was a diploma mill. I have never attended UOP, but I have known two instructors who were appalled at the "I paid a lot of money for this class therefore I deserve an A regardless of the work I do" attitude of many students. They said that UOP did little to discourage this attitude and only seemed to want the student's money. This was several years ago, so maybe UOP has cleaned up its tacit policies. I hope Capella doesn't bow to this kind of unethical student attitude.

Oh, when I said that the master in IS would push me into the six-figures I meant as a software engineer working on security applications and architectures. The typical salary range for this experience is $80-120K.

determinedgerman

jdmurray wrote:

If I get into Capella I'll report on TechExams my experience each quarter--and I'll be objective.

I am going through the posts to get links and stuff and found this. I know you are enrolled @ Capella now but I have never seen a post like that described above....

Mike