Wording question...

Daniel333Daniel333 Senior MemberMember Posts: 2,077 ■■■■■■□□□□
Page 10 of the CCNP ROUTE 642-902 Official Certification Guide reads "Does not deploy the configurations off-shift". Any idea what is meant by that?
-Daniel

Comments

  • mikem2temikem2te Senior Member Member Posts: 407
    Daniel333 wrote: »
    Page 10 of the CCNP ROUTE 642-902 Official Certification Guide reads "Does not deploy the configurations off-shift". Any idea what is meant by that?
    Oh yeah, just read that page. All of them statements seem a bit "fluffy" to me. The ones I could make sense of seemed common sense though.

    To be honest I started reading that book at chapter two just like all other Cisco books I have read. So far I have read chapters 2, 3 & 4 and I am quiite impressed with the book.
    Blog : http://www.caerffili.co.uk/

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  • ColbyGColbyG Senior Member Member Posts: 1,264
    Without any context, I have no idea.
  • CChNCChN Member Member Posts: 81 ■■□□□□□□□□
    ColbyG wrote: »
    Without any context, I have no idea.

    ...which is a typical response one utters to him or herself when scouring the Cisco knowledge base.

    :)
    RFCs: the other, other, white meat.
  • trackittrackit Senior Member Member Posts: 224
    obviously they mean that the role of the CCNP level network engineer does not include deploying new configuration off-shift (ie outside working hours when he is alone and has nobody to assist in case something goes wrong). At least this is how i understand it...
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH The Bringer of Light Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    trackit wrote: »
    obviously they mean that the role of the CCNP level network engineer does not include deploying new configuration off-shift (ie outside working hours when he is alone and has nobody to assist in case something goes wrong). At least this is how i understand it...


    Really? A CCNP is not expected to make change to a network on there own? In which case at what level are you expectec to be able to do this?
    CCIE?? with only 1,00 in the Uk they going to be a really busy bunch...
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • trackittrackit Senior Member Member Posts: 224
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Really? A CCNP is not expected to make change to a network on there own? In which case at what level are you expectec to be able to do this?
    CCIE?? with only 1,00 in the Uk they going to be a really busy bunch...

    yeah, it does seem strange, but how would you "translate" it then? maybe there is some other reason why he "Does not deploy the configurations off-shift" i dunno...

    Summary of the Role of Network Engineer

    The CCNP certification focuses on skills required to do the job of network engineer as
    generally described in this chapter. For perspective, then, consider the following list,
    which compares and contrasts some of the expectations for CCNP network engineers by
    interpreting the CCNP ROUTE Exam Topics:

    ■ Does not create the design document
    ■ Does participate in design peer reviews, finding oversights, asking further questions
    that impact the eventual implementation, and confirming the portions of the design
    that appear complete and valid
    ■ Does not deploy the configurations off-shift
    ■ Does plan and document the specific configurations for each device, documenting
    those configurations in the implementation plan so that others can add the configuration
    to various devices
    ■ Does participate in peer reviews of the implementation plans written by fellow network
    engineers, finding omissions, caveats, and problems
    ■ Does not verify that the changes worked as planned when implemented off-shift
    ■ Does create the verification plan that others use to verify that the changes worked as
    planned when implemented off-shift
    ■ Does perform peer reviews of other engineers’ verification plans

    Now that you’ve had a chance to think generally about the role of the network engineer,
    the next section brings the discussion back around to the CCNP ROUTE exam, and how
    you should prepare for the exam.
  • dynamikdynamik Senior Member Banned Posts: 12,312 ■■■■■■■■■□
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Really? A CCNP is not expected to make change to a network on there own? In which case at what level are you expectec to be able to do this?
    CCIE?? with only 1,00 in the Uk they going to be a really busy bunch...

    Might be speaking from a managerial perspective where the change must be requested, approved, tested, documented, etc.

    You probably don't want one of the overnight guys making changes (even though they may be appropriate) without anyone else knowing about them.
  • ColbyGColbyG Senior Member Member Posts: 1,264
    I think that's a stupid summary, things like that are very subjective. It really depends on the skill level one has and the employer, not just the certification.

    It sounds like they're saying the CCNP helps more with the planning and then someone lower will make the changes after hours, but I'm not sure.
  • jason_lundejason_lunde Lost in the box... Member Posts: 567
    trackit wrote: »
    Summary of the Role of Network Engineer

    The CCNP certification focuses on skills required to do the job of network engineer as
    generally described in this chapter. For perspective, then, consider the following list,
    which compares and contrasts some of the expectations for CCNP network engineers by
    interpreting the CCNP ROUTE Exam Topics:

    ■ Does not create the design document
    ■ Does participate in design peer reviews, finding oversights, asking further questions
    that impact the eventual implementation, and confirming the portions of the design
    that appear complete and valid
    ■ Does not deploy the configurations off-shift
    ■ Does plan and document the specific configurations for each device, documenting
    those configurations in the implementation plan so that others can add the configuration
    to various devices
    ■ Does participate in peer reviews of the implementation plans written by fellow network
    engineers, finding omissions, caveats, and problems
    ■ Does not verify that the changes worked as planned when implemented off-shift
    ■ Does create the verification plan that others use to verify that the changes worked as
    planned when implemented off-shift
    ■ Does perform peer reviews of other engineers’ verification plans

    Now that you’ve had a chance to think generally about the role of the network engineer,
    the next section brings the discussion back around to the CCNP ROUTE exam, and how
    you should prepare for the exam.


    and now for the real world definition....seriously. But I guess its Cisco's book so its technically their call on how they want to describe roles and responsibilities compared to the exam topics.
  • Daniel333Daniel333 Senior Member Member Posts: 2,077 ■■■■■■□□□□
    Thanks for the all the replies. After reading this, putting the CCNP away again :)

    Focus on finishing off my associate level stuff. CCNA:Voice/Wiress/CCDA.
    -Daniel
  • chmorinchmorin Senior Member Member Posts: 1,446 ■■■■■□□□□□
    trackit wrote: »
    yeah, it does seem strange, but how would you "translate" it then? maybe there is some other reason why he "Does not deploy the configurations off-shift" i dunno...


    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say my company tells me how to do my job, not Cisco.
    Currently Pursuing
    WGU (BS in IT Network Administration) - 52%| CCIE:Voice Written - 0% (0/200 Hours)
    mikej412 wrote:
    Cisco Networking isn't just a job, it's a Lifestyle.
  • mikem2temikem2te Senior Member Member Posts: 407
    chmorin wrote: »
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say my company tells me how to do my job, not Cisco.
    Hehe, you are so right. Usually they say "implement the change at 9pm on Friday evening" - typically the day before I go on holidays when there is no one available to test the changes. Chaos and panic on Monday morning and no one is there to put it right!!!

    I'm wondering if that scenario is very common out in the real world?
    Blog : http://www.caerffili.co.uk/

    Previous : Passed Configuring Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007 (70-630)
    Currently : EIGRP & OSPF
    Next : CCNP Route
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH The Bringer of Light Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    chmorin wrote: »
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say my company tells me how to do my job, not Cisco.

    Ah see I would say I tell my company how I am going to do my job. Not in a bad way, but I have the greatest networking knowledge in the company, so I am the person making the decisions and deciding how and when things get done.

    I think that how a good company works, its no good management trying to tell me how to do my job, as they haven't got a clue to be honest. Much as I don't tell them how to do there's.

    We decided together what they want me to do, but the how to and implementing it is, and should be down to the people who have the expertise.

    And as for CISCO's rules, as Barbossa would say in pirates of the caribbean... "it is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"...


    You read it, learn it, and then take a look at you company situation and using a bit of common sense, adapt it to fit.
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • trackittrackit Senior Member Member Posts: 224
    ok, this is how it was meant:
    The ROUTE exam topics includes some perspectives on how an
    engineer plans for various tasks. The idea is that the CCNP-level engineer in particular
    takes the design from another engineer, plans the implementation, and plans the
    verification steps–handing off the actual tasks to engineers working during changewindow
    hours. Because the engineer plans the tasks, but may not be at the keyboard
    when implementing a feature, that engineer must master the configuration and verification
    commands so that the planned commands work for the engineer making the
    changes off-shift. The planning tables at the end of the chapter give you the chance
    to take the details in the Foundation Topics core of the chapter and think about them
    as if you were writing the planning documents.
  • trackittrackit Senior Member Member Posts: 224
    I was planning on going BSCI, BCMSN, TSHOOT track (cause i have all the materials for old CCNP and i have been studying for BSCI for about 3-4 months), but i am know starting to think, maybe its better to go for all new CCNP?

    tough choice... im still in a doubt.... have to think about that one.

    This verification thing in new exams worries me a little bit. I mean, if they want me to tell them exact "show" and other commands and what exact output should be seen etc... then it can require little too much memorizing to my taste...
    The important part of the verification plan lists the specific commands used, at what point
    in the implementation process, and what output should be seen
  • DevilWAHDevilWAH The Bringer of Light Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    trackit wrote: »
    I was planning on going BSCI, BCMSN, TSHOOT track (cause i have all the materials for old CCNP and i have been studying for BSCI for about 3-4 months), but i am know starting to think, maybe its better to go for all new CCNP?

    tough choice... im still in a doubt.... have to think about that one.

    This verification thing in new exams worries me a little bit. I mean, if they want me to tell them exact "show" and other commands and what exact output should be seen etc... then it can require little too much memorizing to my taste...

    I started going through the BCMSN material, and then swaped to the new SWITCH track. to be honest they are 80-90% the same. and cover almost the same topics.

    I also don't believe that CISCO every expect you remember every command and every out put. They expect you to know where you implement a change, and maybe the generic part of the command. (ie. is it a globle confige or is it under an interface you apply it. and what is the first part of the command, "show spanning-tree ?" The "?" and the tab are two important parts of the IOS that you are expected to make use of.
    And as for verification, it seem that you are expected to be able to use it in trouble shooting. "system X doesn't work, here are a few different show out puts, what is the issue".
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
  • Forsaken_GAForsaken_GA Senior Member Member Posts: 4,024
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Ah see I would say I tell my company how I am going to do my job. Not in a bad way, but I have the greatest networking knowledge in the company, so I am the person making the decisions and deciding how and when things get done.

    That very much depends on the company involved. If you tried that with, say, Comcast, you'd be seeking other employment pretty quick. Those guys have their senior engineers who develop their MOP, and if you deviate from the MOP, you'd better have a *really* good reason.

    Cisco's just trying to teach some basic management skills, which isn't a bad thing. A buddy of mine just recently got a job opportunity through someone else's gung ho attitude. The someone else in question was a network manager for a city. He decided he was going to make some changes to the routers by hand editing everything in a live environment without backing up the working configurations first. He ended up knocking out the police and fire networks for most of a weekend. That person and his team were invited to explore other employment opportunities, opening the door for my friend.

    While I'm usually not a fan of the gospel according to Cisco, in this case, I'm glad to see them taking a practical approach to network management. From what I've read so far, it's probably a good idea to pay attention to what they're telling you, it'll decrease the chances of a resume generating event.
  • sides14sides14 Senior Member Member Posts: 113
    You know what they say, someone's poor judgement is another persons opportunity.
  • chmorinchmorin Senior Member Member Posts: 1,446 ■■■■■□□□□□
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Ah see I would say I tell my company how I am going to do my job. Not in a bad way, but I have the greatest networking knowledge in the company, so I am the person making the decisions and deciding how and when things get done.

    I think that how a good company works, its no good management trying to tell me how to do my job, as they haven't got a clue to be honest. Much as I don't tell them how to do there's.

    We decided together what they want me to do, but the how to and implementing it is, and should be down to the people who have the expertise.

    And as for CISCO's rules, as Barbossa would say in pirates of the caribbean... "it is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"...


    You read it, learn it, and then take a look at you company situation and using a bit of common sense, adapt it to fit.

    Agreed. That is pretty much the point I was trying to get across.
    Currently Pursuing
    WGU (BS in IT Network Administration) - 52%| CCIE:Voice Written - 0% (0/200 Hours)
    mikej412 wrote:
    Cisco Networking isn't just a job, it's a Lifestyle.
  • trackittrackit Senior Member Member Posts: 224
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    And as for verification, it seem that you are expected to be able to use it in trouble shooting. "system X doesn't work, here are a few different show out puts, what is the issue".

    I think its not exactly like that... The impression i have, is that you dont have to just troubleshoot (i guess thats what TSHOOT exam is for), but rather you have to "plan" the verification process, so some other person who will actually implement those changes that you have prepared, can easily verify that everything worked as planned. In other words you have to outline the steps needed to acheive the goals described in the design AND outline the steps needed for verification. And imho that involves knowing the exact show and debug commands and what exactly should or should not be seen in the output.
    You also must
    be able to direct others as to what verification steps would tell them if the implementation
    worked or not, rather than just relying on typing a ? and looking around for that little
    piece of information you know exists somewhere.



    It would be nice if someone who will take the new exam soon, could step in and enlighten me a little bit about what is this verification planning exactly.


    But i actually like that CCNP is more in depth concentrated on routing and switching and other topics have been moved to other tracks where they belong. Its a shame though they removed IS-IS as i was starting to get pretty good grasp of it already :D
  • *BB**BB* Request timed out. Member Posts: 95 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I just got my books in and read the section in question. I think this is related to the trend of IT management/planning methods are popular right now. The first chapter of the book reads this way. Had that nice "ITIL" feel to it.
    Procrastinator extraordinaire
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