Starting the CCENT

Good luck, as always, eBay is probably your best choice. I'm a hands on guy also and I just don't like simulators. As soon as you want to get creative, the commands don't exist!

You can really get some cheap routers/switches but I don't know if $100 is going to be enough. You can get some routers for $20-30 bucks but you'll need a couple.

Especially if you want to simulate a WAN connection, you'll need serial cables and routers with serial ports. You might have to push your budget up a tad bit higher..

Also, be aware if you get old cisco routers, make sure they have the latest IOS. For the most part, old IOS's are fine, but there are some commands that I really can't stand that don't exist on older IOS's...

And you want to make sure that commands in the book will work on an older IOS...so I think if you stick with 12.2 or 12.3+ you should be ok....

If $100 is all you can spend then just use packet tracer or GNS3 software for now and keep saving your money. Unfortunately Cisco labs can cost a bit. $100 will get you one MAYBE two el cheapo routers. I suggest saving up until you can get 2 routers with cables and/or a couple lower end 2950 switches.

Shy87

CBT nuggets with wendell odom book.. thats what you want

notgoing2fail wrote: »

Good luck, as always, eBay is probably your best choice. I'm a hands on guy also and I just don't like simulators. As soon as you want to get creative, the commands don't exist!

You can really get some cheap routers/switches but I don't know if $100 is going to be enough. You can get some routers for $20-30 bucks but you'll need a couple.

Especially if you want to simulate a WAN connection, you'll need serial cables and routers with serial ports. You might have to push your budget up a tad bit higher..

Also, be aware if you get old cisco routers, make sure they have the latest IOS. For the most part, old IOS's are fine, but there are some commands that I really can't stand that don't exist on older IOS's...

And you want to make sure that commands in the book will work on an older IOS...so I think if you stick with 12.2 or 12.3+ you should be ok....

If I bump my budget to around $250 it looks like I can get a 2611 and a 2610xm two WIC-1Ts and cabling. Would this be enough to allow me to test setting up a WAN and do most of the things needed for the CCENT? It looks like I can also hook GNS3 up to the routers and simulate anything else I may need. Is that correct?

importantbrian wrote: »

If I bump my budget to around $250 it looks like I can get a 2611 and a 2610xm two WIC-1Ts and cabling. Would this be enough to allow me to test setting up a WAN and do most of the things needed for the CCENT? It looks like I can also hook GNS3 up to the routers and simulate anything else I may need. Is that correct?

I've only just installed GNS3 last weekend and only played with it for a couple of hours so I can't really vouch for it. It suppose a handful of routers and that's about it. It doesn't support any cisco switches at all.

I don't know how well it works with connecting to the real world, plus you NEED the actual IOS's in order to use GNS3, because you have to import them into the program.

When I passed my CCNA back in 2005, all I used were 2 routers. A 2507 and I think a 2509. They already had serial cables integrated. I got 2 V.35 cables so I could hook them up back to back and simulate the WAN link.

With that you should be able to practice other things as well like ACL's, NAT's...

The IOS's are old though so you have to be careful.

Look around for Cisco 1600 and 1700 series routers. They can be had for cheap. Make sure they have serial ports on them. If not, see if you can pick up the WIC module for the serial ports. Then just get the serial cable to do the crossover....

CiskHo wrote: »

If $100 is all you can spend then just use packet tracer or GNS3 software for now and keep saving your money. Unfortunately Cisco labs can cost a bit. $100 will get you one MAYBE two el cheapo routers. I suggest saving up until you can get 2 routers with cables and/or a couple lower end 2950 switches.

If cash is limited IMO there is still a benefit in getting just a single router if someone has no hands on router experience.

ok, it is not possible to use serial links and routing protocols on a single router but there is still sooo much to play around with which will be a benefit during studying and the exam itself. Simulators tend to have limited command sets and buggy operation which can confuse things and GNS3, although works well (sometimes) still shields a user from many essential topics a CCNA should know.

notgoing2fail wrote: »

Look around for Cisco 1600 and 1700 series routers. They can be had for cheap. Make sure they have serial ports on them. If not, see if you can pick up the WIC module for the serial ports. Then just get the serial cable to do the crossover....

Don't know about the 1600 range. Some of the 1700 range are gems (the 32MB flash version of the 1721 & 1751, and the 1760) and can be found pretty cheap.

mikem2te wrote: »

Don't know about the 1600 range. Some of the 1700 range are gems (the 32MB flash version of the 1721 & 1751, and the 1760) and can be found pretty cheap.

Absolutely, and if you can get one with 12.4 IOS even better. I have a bunch of 1700 series but I need to upgrade the flash. They are stuck in 12.2 IOS world....

It's a catch 22, because the flash cards I've seen on eBay for them cost almost as much as the unit itself! So unless I can find one for $5 bucks, it's never going to happen!

notgoing2fail wrote: »

Absolutely, and if you can get one with 12.4 IOS even better. I have a bunch of 1700 series but I need to upgrade the flash. They are stuck in 12.2 IOS world....

It's a catch 22, because the flash cards I've seen on eBay for them cost almost as much as the unit itself! So unless I can find one for $5 bucks, it's never going to happen!

The ones to look for are the 1700's with a little "32F" symbols above the ethernet port like these two-

Cisco 1760 Modular Access. Router REF: 3909 on eBay (end time 26-Mar-10 23:36:44 GMT)

Cisco 1721 Router + WIC-1AM 64/32 12.3 CISCO1721 1700 on eBay (end time 15-Apr-10 10:19:35 BST)

You can just about make out the black "32F" symbol in the pictures. These two exmaples are pretty pricey though!!

mikem2te wrote: »

The ones to look for are the 1700's with a little "32F" symbols above the ethernet port like these two-

Cisco 1760 Modular Access. Router REF: 3909 on eBay (end time 26-Mar-10 23:36:44 GMT)

Cisco 1721 Router + WIC-1AM 64/32 12.3 CISCO1721 1700 on eBay (end time 15-Apr-10 10:19:35 BST)

You can just about make out the black "32F" symbol in the pictures. These two exmaples are pretty pricey though!!

I've never bought anything from eBay's UK site? I wonder how that works, the shipping is probably a lot, or maybe the seller may not even ship to the U.S.?

Those are some good looking routers!!! I've always loved the styling of the 1720, 1721 models....

mikem2te wrote: »

If cash is limited IMO there is still a benefit in getting just a single router if someone has no hands on router experience.

That's good. So, I could buy one router and get some experience with it and then expand to two when I save a little more money.

Are the 1700s something that can be built on in the future or would it be better to start with something like a 2610xm?

importantbrian wrote: »

That's good. So, I could buy one router and get some experience with it and then expand to two when I save a little more money.

Are the 1700s something that can be built on in the future or would it be better to start with something like a 2610xm?

Depends on which model you get and what modules come with it.

The ones I have, some have T1/CSU DSU card modules, some of serial ports...

Try to get one with serial port so you are at least half way there with one router. Then later you can get another router with a serial port.

If you get one with a T1 card, it's pretty useless and you're wasting a slot...

But again, the IOS is very important. If you get an old one, I think you may run into issues doing trunking. Well, I take that back, if you get the wrong IOS, some don't support the trunking.
And the old IOS's don't support named ACL's either so you won't even able to play with that, and you will want to play with named ACL's!!

I also found out just today, one of my routers doesn't even support NAT! Completely absolutely mind boggled...

I typed in, "ip nat" and it didn't even have a command for it....

I used some WIC-1T's but mostly T1 CSU/DSU cards for frame relay, they were cheap, and if you know how to make an Ethernet cable, you can Google and make a T1 cross over cable and connection to T1's together, you will need to set the clock source on one router, the line code and framing, but that will at least get you going.

I used a bunch of 3620's with the some Ethernet and WIC carriers to use the serial cards.

tazdevil wrote: »

I used some WIC-1T's but mostly T1 CSU/DSU cards for frame relay, they were cheap, and if you know how to make an Ethernet cable, you can Google and make a T1 cross over cable and connection to T1's together, you will need to set the clock source on one router, the line code and framing, but that will at least get you going.

I used a bunch of 3620's with the some Ethernet and WIC carriers to use the serial cards.

Is that right? That's fantastic then! I've had my fair share of making cables, although I don't think I have any crimpers anymore....

So you're basically saying, make a T1 cross-over cable?

Yep, the T1 connection on the T1 CSU/DSU works with an RJ45 from my experience, and just cross the right pins;

1->4
2->5
3->3
4->1
5->2
6->6
7->7
8->8

slightly different than a x-over, but it works.

int s0/0
service-module t1 clock source internal
service-module t1 linecode b8zs
service-module t1 framing esf
service-module t1 timeslots 1-24 speed 64

for the one router, and the same on the other end, with out the clock source command, and you should be up and going.

tazdevil wrote: »

Yep, the T1 connection on the T1 CSU/DSU works with an RJ45 from my experience, and just cross the right pins;

1->4
2->5
3->3
4->1
5->2
6->6
7->7
8->8

slightly different than a x-over, but it works.

int s0/0
service-module t1 clock source internal
service-module t1 linecode b8zs
service-module t1 framing esf
service-module t1 timeslots 1-24 speed 64

for the one router, and the same on the other end, with out the clock source command, and you should be up and going.

Thanks Taz, I'll have to check this out. I've always wanted to make my T1 cards useful in someway!!

importantbrian wrote: »

That's good. So, I could buy one router and get some experience with it and then expand to two when I save a little more money.

Are the 1700s something that can be built on in the future or would it be better to start with something like a 2610xm?

Some of the 1700 models (1721, 1751, 1760) were end of lifed at the same time as the 2600xm series so I believe the latest IOS version available for both ranges is 12.4(15).T10 (or thereabouts).

I like both the 1721 and 1760, both have plus points-

1721 - Small, silent.
1760 - Support Voice and VICs (Voice Interface Cards) after adding a DSP PVDM card. The 2600XM support voice but only after adding a network module and not all voice cards are suported in all network modules.

The down sides of the 1700 range-

1700 range has a single fastethernet port whereas the 26x1XM range (2611XM, 2621XM, 2651XM) has two.
No network module slot so can't be used as a frameswitch by addint a N-4A/S

tazdevil wrote: »

Yep, the T1 connection on the T1 CSU/DSU works with an RJ45 from my experience, and just cross the right pins;

1->4
2->5
3->3
4->1
5->2
6->6
7->7
8->8

slightly different than a x-over, but it works.

int s0/0
service-module t1 clock source internal
service-module t1 linecode b8zs
service-module t1 framing esf
service-module t1 timeslots 1-24 speed 64

for the one router, and the same on the other end, with out the clock source command, and you should be up and going.

The same scenario works with VWIC-MFT-E1 & T1 cards as well. The configuration is slightly different, you need to create a "channel-group" under the corresponding controller which then creates a logical serial interface on the router.

Not tried it for frame relay though. although Configuring 1- and 2-Port T1/E1 Multiflex Voice/WAN Interface Cards on Cisco 2600 and 3600 Series Routers [Cisco IOS Software Releases 12.0 T] - Cisco Systems implies it should work.

mikem2te wrote: »

Some of the 1700 models (1721, 1751, 1760) were end of lifed at the same time as the 2600xm series so I believe the latest IOS version available for both ranges is 12.4(15).T10 (or thereabouts).

I like both the 1721 and 1760, both have plus points-

1721 - Small, silent.

1760 - Support Voice and VICs (Voice Interface Cards) after adding a DSP PVDM card. The 2600XM support voice but only after adding a network module and not all voice cards are suported in all network modules.

The down sides of the 1700 range-

1700 range has a single fastethernet port whereas the 26x1XM range (2611XM, 2621XM, 2651XM) has two.

No network module slot so can't be used as a frameswitch by addint a N-4A/S

Very well put. I think you're right, I have seen 12.4 on some 1700 models. I also like that they are silent. Bad side is that one fastethernet port. My 1720 still has one avaialble slot, I wonder what I can do with that.... hmm....

I also just realized I have a 1538 microhub!! wow!!

mikem2te wrote: »

If cash is limited IMO there is still a benefit in getting just a single router if someone has no hands on router experience.

Agreed that it would help him but I doubt it would help as much as getting a 2950 switch or similar. GNS3 can be used for the routing concepts but its not so good for switching. If its one or the other (limited budget) then I would go with a switch instead of a router. That's just my $.02.

I would recommend a 2600XM over a 1760 but either would work fine. Do your best to get 2 routers asap, especially before going down the ICND2 path. 2 of the same model or 2 different models... doesn't really matter.

notgoing2fail wrote: »

I also like that they are silent. Bad side is that one fastethernet port.

Silent =

I don't think having 1 ethernet port will even matter if he is using a serial connection for the R1->R2 link. Sure, more ports is always better but if $ is an issue then you have to start cutting back on features/ports.

CiskHo wrote: »

notgoing2fail wrote: »

I also like that they are silent. Bad side is that one fastethernet port. QUOTE]
Silent =

I don't think having 1 ethernet port will even matter if he is using a serial connection for the R1->R2 link. Sure, more ports is always better but if $ is an issue then you have to start cutting back on features/ports.

Absolutely. It's just a nitpick. That E0 port can easily be plugged into a switch in which you can then practice your ACL's....

He'll be fine with any of these models to get started.

CiskHo wrote: »

Agreed that it would help him but I doubt it would help as much as getting a 2950 switch or similar. GNS3 can be used for the routing concepts but its not so good for switching. If its one or the other (limited budget) then I would go with a switch instead of a router. That's just my $.02.

Is this because switching is more important for the CCENT or simply because GNS3 can serve as a virtual router?

It looks like I can probably get a 2950 with a 2610xm for around $150 without any serial ports. Then I could save for the second router and get a couple WIC-1ts when I buy that to do the WAN simulation. I could probably talk the little lady into that from a investment in our future perspective, but if not I could just get the 2950, as I do have GNS3 up and running, and then save a little for the 2610xm. I think this is the path I will probably take.

Has anyone used cablesandkits.com? Their prices seem to in line with ebay, and they seem reputable so I'd feel more comfortable dropping that much money with them than with ebay (been burned with ebay before).

Also, I currently have DSL and use a Linksys wireless router to serve my home internet. Would it be better to set up the Cisco equipment in front of or behind this router? I'm leaning towards behind just because I'm sure my wife would be pissed if I temporarily messed up the internet by messing up a cofig in a lab or something.

importantbrian wrote: »

Is this because switching is more important for the CCENT or simply because GNS3 can serve as a virtual router?

It looks like I can probably get a 2950 with a 2610xm for around $150 without any serial ports. Then I could save for the second router and get a couple WIC-1ts when I buy that to do the WAN simulation. I could probably talk the little lady into that from a investment in our future perspective, but if not I could just get the 2950, as I do have GNS3 up and running, and then save a little for the 2610xm. I think this is the path I will probably take.

Has anyone used cablesandkits.com? Their prices seem to in line with ebay, and they seem reputable so I'd feel more comfortable dropping that much money with them than with ebay (been burned with ebay before).

Also, I currently have DSL and use a Linksys wireless router to serve my home internet. Would it be better to set up the Cisco equipment in front of or behind this router? I'm leaning towards behind just because I'm sure my wife would be pissed if I temporarily messed up the internet by messing up a cofig in a lab or something.

So far, knock on wood, I have yet to be burned by eBay. But I know my number is coming up. The more I buy off of it, it will happen eventually so I actually control myself and try not to purchase too many things off eBay.

I'm not really familiar with CCENT course so I don't know what they focus on. I'm going straight for the CCNA. I honestly think the CCNA is a better approach, less money, one test, and keep in mind, I think it's easier to pass because they can only ask you so many questions during the exam. Whereas with the ICND1 and 2, each exam, they can spend a lot of time on just one subject, and if you're not that good at it, they can get you on it....just my .02 cents...

As for your setup. Put everything behind your linksys router. Do not destroy you current internet access and replace it with a lab.

What I do is hang off my lab off of my local LAN.
So for ex:

If your linksys is 192.168.1.1

Then hookup your router directly to one of the ports and give it 192.168.1.10. That will be the WAN IP address of your router.

Then on the other side, you can create whatever networking scheme you want.

Now, say, your lab IP scheme is 192.168.10.0

You go on your linksys router and add a static route so your local LAN can route to your lab LAN.

notgoing2fail wrote: »

So far, knock on wood, I have yet to be burned by eBay. But I know my number is coming up. The more I buy off of it, it will happen eventually so I actually control myself and try not to purchase too many things off eBay.

I'm not really familiar with CCENT course so I don't know what they focus on. I'm going straight for the CCNA. I honestly think the CCNA is a better approach, less money, one test, and keep in mind, I think it's easier to pass because they can only ask you so many questions during the exam. Whereas with the ICND1 and 2, each exam, they can spend a lot of time on just one subject, and if you're not that good at it, they can get you on it....just my .02 cents...

Yeah, I decided to do the CCENT first, because even if it goes more in depth into the topics it covers I still think that will be easier for me than having to jump right in and do all of the CCNA right of the bat, but you may be right. Plus you get two certs by doing CCENT and then CCNA. That wasn't anything I placed to much weight on when making the decision, but it did seem like it would be nice. Two more lines on the resume and all of that.

notgoing2fail wrote: »

As for your setup. Put everything behind your linksys router. Do not destroy you current internet access and replace it with a lab.

What I do is hang off my lab off of my local LAN.
So for ex:

If your linksys is 192.168.1.1

Then hookup your router directly to one of the ports and give it 192.168.1.10. That will be the WAN IP address of your router.

Then on the other side, you can create whatever networking scheme you want.

Now, say, your lab IP scheme is 192.168.10.0

You go on your linksys router and add a static route so your local LAN can route to your lab LAN.

That makes sense. It seems like the most difficult part of the process is trying to find the equipment with the most up to date IOS. Is there a way to get the software and update the equipment or is this a TOS violation with Cisco?

When are you planning to take the test? I'll be interested to see what your thoughts are once you've finished up.

importantbrian wrote: »

Is this because switching is more important for the CCENT or simply because GNS3 can serve as a virtual router?

I say get a switch because GNS3 can be used for all router related stuff, including setting up serial links. I do not believe the switching stuff goes enough in depth when using GNS3. I doubt you could practice VTP, STP, etc. I do not recall exactly what was covered in ICND1 vs ICND2 but I feel confident that all of the router stuff can be done within GNS3 without owning a real Cisco router. You could practice updating IOS images, logging on via telnet or console, etc using a switch (or a router).

importantbrian wrote: »

Has anyone used cablesandkits.com? Their prices seem to in line with ebay, and they seem reputable so I'd feel more comfortable dropping that much money with them than with ebay (been burned with ebay before).

I have made 3 orders with them in the past week. Quick to ship. Costs are good. I have not been impressed with the screws they provide for rack mount kits but everything else has been good to go and as advertised. I will use them again and I recommend them. Beats having to pay multiple vendors on ebay for shipping when you can just go to one place and (normally) get free shipping.

importantbrian wrote: »

Also, I currently have DSL and use a Linksys wireless router to serve my home internet. Would it be better to set up the Cisco equipment in front of or behind this router? I'm leaning towards behind just because I'm sure my wife would be pissed if I temporarily messed up the internet by messing up a cofig in a lab or something.

You want to set up your Cisco stuff BEHIND (LAN side) the Linksys. Mainly to keep your wife happy but for security too. I made the mistake of putting my Linksys behind my Cisco stuff when I 1st started out. After the internet connection went down for a couple days my wife read me the riot act! Now that I am more knowledgable and comfortable with using Cisco stuff I am in the process of putting my beefier Cisco routers at my ISP connection and tossing the Linksys.

importantbrian wrote: »

When are you planning to take the test? I'll be interested to see what your thoughts are once you've finished up.

I haven't scheduled it yet but it's definitely going to be next week. No later than Friday. It's now or never.....eh I shouldn't say never, but I really want to get started on my CCNP track....and also some of the CCNA specialties like wireless and voice....

I too am interested in what questions they're going to throw at me. 5 years ago when I took it, they had nothing on IPv6 or wireless. Now they've taken out ISDN and I don't recall much of anything about ATM.

So things have changed...

Also the single CCNA exam will give both your CCENT and CCNA, with one shot. I tried the singe exam, missed it, then decided it was easier to break up the exam costs of the two exams (which works to the same as the single), and concentrate on one section of study at a time. I do not live with this as part of my main job, so this is a nice to have for personal goals, and a future move in the company down the road.

After seeing the CCENT exam, my thought was the single CCNA was simpler, but I got the CCENT exam passed, so I am now working on getting ready for the ICND2. It's just a personal decision, and how much experience you have with it.

my 2 cents...

mikej412

tazdevil wrote: »

Also the single CCNA exam will give both your CCENT and CCNA, with one shot.

No it doesn't.

Passing the ICND1 exam earns you the CCENT.

Passing the ICND1 and ICDN2 exam, or the single CCNA exam earns you the CCNA.

importantbrian wrote: »

It seems like the most difficult part of the process is trying to find the equipment with the most up to date IOS. Is there a way to get the software and update the equipment or is this a TOS violation with Cisco?

That's why you should get your routers with max memory and the latest/greatest IOS feature set and version available.

As long as you apply the "Vegas Rule" -- what happens in your home Cisco Lab stays in your home Cisco Lab -- you should be okay. The license for the software doesn't transfer with the second hand sale, but the Cisco Software police usually won't bother you as long as you don't start running a rack rental business with your home lab and compete with the companies running licensed/supported hardware/software.

mikej412 wrote: »

As long as you apply the "Vegas Rule" -- what happens in your home Cisco Lab stays in your home Cisco Lab -- you should be okay. The license for the software doesn't transfer with the second hand sale, but the Cisco Software police usually won't bother you as long as you don't start running a rack rental business with your home lab and compete with the companies running licensed/supported hardware/software.

I like the "Vegas Rule" analogy. If I buy a piece of equipment with an older IOS is there a way to obtain the newest IOS and update the equipment? I suppose Cisco would probably sell it to you, but I haven't heard of this so I wasn't sure.