CCNA & No Experience

teksource1984

Guys,

I will probably pass and have my CCNA certification towards the end of spring this year.

However, I have no experience with Cisco routers or the CLI.

How can I get some experience working with Cisco Switches, Routers, CLI etc.

jonfc3s

Best bet would be to pick up a simlulator,.... and not to rain on your parade, but it will be VERY difficult for you to pass the test(s) for the CCNA without knowledge of the CLI.

I've been using the boson netsim for a little over a year now, and it is a pretty good product and worth the investment.


Jon

lordy

Just curious, how to plan to pass the CCNA without knowing the CLI ?

jeanathan

Many have said before and I shall repeat them now. GNS3.

Poor, no matter, GNS3 allows the poorest of the poor to build labs in excess of 20000 usd and gain invaluable experience configuring and troubleshooting networks with cisco equipment.

But if it is real world experience for a resume that you want. Unfortunately, you get lucky and get a job or you go offer your services free of labor charge to charities and small businesses. Keep in mind tech soup provides deep discounts for cisco hardware for a number of charities.

That is the best I can come up with.

tim100

jeanathan wrote: »

Many have said before and I shall repeat them now. GNS3.

Poor, no matter, GNS3 allows the poorest of the poor to build labs in excess of 20000 usd and gain invaluable experience configuring and troubleshooting networks with cisco equipment.

Not quite true. You can gain some experience but it will never be equivalent to experience on actual equipment. Take this thread for example:

http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccna-ccent/52847-cisco-ios-help.html

This is just one small example of something that you will never encounter in GNS3 but only from actual hardware and if you encounter this problem on a production router and you only have experience with GNS3 then you are pretty much in deep you know what.

MentholMoose

teksource1984 wrote: »

Guys,

I will probably pass and have my CCNA certification towards the end of spring this year.

However, I have no experience with Cisco routers or the CLI.

How can I get some experience working with Cisco Switches, Routers, CLI etc.

If you're doing self study, get a simulator and/or build a lab. Some CCNA study guides include a simulator which should be adequate for passing the exam, or you can purchase one. A popular simulator is Cisco's own Packet Tracer, which you can access if you take certain CCNA courses.

jeanathan

tim100 wrote: »

some experience

Semantics. GNS3 is software, where by hardware specifications, task, and rommon configuration can be found online and in CCNA books.

never be equivalent to experience on actual equipment

True

Ebay has some 2500 & 2600 series routers for cheap that would help a CCNA candidate get acquainted with task like upgrading the IOS on a router via tftp. And Cisco's feature navigator helps map hardware specs to IOS versions. Cisco Feature Navigator - Cisco Systems

More to the point I don't know too many CCNP's that have extensive practice working on a 7200 series router during their training for the CCNP, yet with Google most newly minted CCNP's can overcome a lack of literal hands on with a 7200 and accomplish task on them by researching as they work (slow, but effective). Same with catOS and 6500 series switch.

Not to imply that a company will hire someone without physical experience on the device, hence consulting and free of charge charity work.

Personally I would go the ebay route and get a couple of cheap 2600 series routers and sell them back later to reclaim some (small loss) of the funds.

Packet Tracer

I used this on a portion of my BSCI exam (small portion); you can probably find it on the internet. It forces you to pick the right cabling types and set the clock rate cmd. And it is easier to use than GNS3.

Unfortunately, Cisco's certifications have a great deal of luster within some HR departments and for those with meager financial resources you are almost priced out of the game. Opposed to say a state/federal funded Networking and Telecommunications degree.

Begs the question do only rich kids become CCIE's?

tim100

jeanathan wrote: »

Semantics. GNS3 is software, where by hardware specifications, task, and rommon configuration can be found online and in CCNA books.

I'm not disagreeing with you by any means in that you can find information online and by reading books but hands on experience with real equipment whether it be in a lab environment or production environment in which the latter is preferred will get you much farther. There are tons of differences between simulators and real equipment and many issues can only be encountered with real equipment. Simulators will only get you so far. Some things will work perfect in GNS3 whereas the same configuration will break on actual routers. Some errors that real routers will report in debugging information won't be produced in GNS3 which will make it look like the configuration is perfectly fine and if you happen to come across something like that in the real world then you won't know where to start troubleshooting. The list goes on and on...

MentholMoose

tim100 wrote: »

Simulators will only get you so far. Some things will work perfect in GNS3 whereas the same configuration will break on actual routers. Some errors that real routers will report in debugging information won't be produced in GNS3 which will make it look like the configuration is perfectly fine and if you happen to come across something like that in the real world then you won't know where to start troubleshooting. The list goes on and on...

The same can be said for a home lab. Is your lab hooked up to real circuits? Do you have your own globally routed network on it? Maybe you might , but for most people it is far above being affordable or realistic.

Anyone who uses a simulator knows full well that it is not 100% representative of the real thing. If someone can't cope and doesn't "know where to start troubleshooting" with a config not working in production that works in test, I doubt it matters if test is Packet Tracer or a $20K lab environment.

jeanathan

I am far from poor, but have you seen the 3560 prices on ebay, Ouch

I have some 2650xm's and a couple of 3550's in my lab. Also some 870w's and an 1811, but all that is cheap minus the 1811 by comparison to those 3560's.

Wouldn't you agree that for a large MPLS lab or a large 10 router mixed OSPF, BGP, and EIGRP lab that GNS3 is a life saver?

Of course for the CCIE labs I would prefer a rack rental because GNS3 is not perfect, which again takes some of the physical element out of the loop.

tim100

jeanathan wrote: »

Wouldn't you agree that for a large MPLS lab or a large 10 router mixed OSPF, BGP, and EIGRP lab that GNS3 is a life saver?

Of course for the CCIE labs I would prefer a rack rental because GNS3 is not perfect, which again takes some of the physical element out of the loop.

That's why I say try to use both. If you want to get a quick lab up and running for testing purposes or if you are trying to learn the fundamentals like the CLI and other concepts then something like GNS3 or dynamips will be fine. But for anything further I would recommend trying to get hands on with actual hardware if possible. It could be rack rentals or your own equipment. I just wouldn't depend solely on simulators but this is only my opinion. Field experience is also a major plus as this was heavy factor for me when I had my CCNA and decided to pursue higher level certs. I'm just going by my personal experience and I'm guessing that after an individual achieves his/her CCNA that they will want to pursue higher level certs as well.

chmorin

A lab is a good way to practice your skills in a physical environment, however you cannot emulate a professional environment. I'd say try and sneak into a network technician position somewhere.

tim100

MentholMoose wrote: »

If someone can't cope and doesn't "know where to start troubleshooting" with a config not working in production that works in test, I doubt it matters if test is Packet Tracer or a $20K lab environment.

Who said anything about a configuration not working in production that works in a test environment? I'm talking about differences between a simulator and actual equipment.

MentholMoose

tim100 wrote: »

Who said anything about a configuration not working in production that works in a test environment? I'm talking about differences between a simulator and actual equipment.

You said this in the text I quoted. Requoted for your convenience:

tim100 wrote: »

Some errors that real routers will report in debugging information won't be produced in GNS3 which will make it look like the configuration is perfectly fine and if you happen to come across something like that in the real world then you won't know where to start troubleshooting.

i.e. it fails in real routers (production), but works fine in GNS3 (test).

tim100

MentholMoose wrote: »

i.e. it fails in real routers (production), but works fine in GNS3 (test).

You have misread. "Some errors that real routers will report in debugging information won't be produced in GNS3" meaning you will see the output in real routers whereas you won't see the output in GNS3 so you will then think your configuration on GNS3 is a perfectly working configuration but in reality it is not.

MentholMoose

tim100 wrote: »

You have misread. "Some errors that real routers will report in debugging information won't be produced in GNS3" meaning you will see the output in real routers whereas you won't see the output in GNS3 so you will then think your configuration on GNS3 is a perfectly working configuration but in reality it is not.

So there is an error in a real router, but no failure, and no error in GNS3, and it also doesn't fail? If that's what you meant, then I did misread it since I equated and error with a failure. In any case I don't really care, I was mainly responding to the second part of the sentence (about someone being unable to even begin troubleshooting something).

tim100

MentholMoose wrote: »

I equated and error with a failure

Errors don't necessarily have to be failures. If that were the case then network problems would be quite easy to pinpoint and troubleshoot and debugging would be futile.

MentholMoose

tim100 wrote: »

Errors don't necessarily have to be failures. If that were the case then network problems would be quite easy to pinpoint and troubleshoot and debugging would be futile.

Yes that's a good point and I can imagine that is a problem with the various simulators out there.

fly351

I would spend a little $$ on some routers/switches... check out Ebay for 2900 series switches and 2600 series routers, cheap as dirt. Last I checked you could get 2 of each for around $200-250.

MentholMoose

Here's a nice article from Train Signal on getting started with GNS3:
Using the GNS3 Network Simulator | Train Signal Training - Free Computer Training Videos

For someone just starting out I would not recommend buying lab hardware, for two reasons. First, to build a useful lab, you need some knowledge about what you need. There are tons of unscrupulous people selling "CCNA lab kits" that are inadequate and/or overpriced, and if you don't know what you you are buying or exactly what you need, it is easy to be ripped off. Second, when you are just starting, you realistically don't know if you will actually finish the CCNA or continue with more advanced certs. Once you start studying and improve your knowledge, you will be in a much better position to predict how far you will pursue the certs.

For someone just starting out, I would suggest looking into taking courses at a community college, if possible. The CC I attended had a very nice Cisco lab (going by list price it was easily over $250K). It was far beyond what was needed for the courses taught there (one CCNA course and one firewall course), but the prof could get it cheap from Cisco so he went all out (it was enough for CCNP and CCSP at the time, and probably enough for some wireless exams). The lectures for the CCNA course had labs on real hardware, and the homework was labs on a simulator (included with the textbook).

If you can't take a course anywhere, then just get a simulator, and get studying! All that time trying to build a usable lab could be time spent learning. When you eventually run into something you can't do on a simulator, then consider buying some gear, if it is worth it to you. There are very few CCNA-level topics that can't be done with any simulator out there.

sundaysuit

are you referring to packet tracer?