NG2F's road to CCNP (the new track)

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  • Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    So yea I decided to go for the NP over the SP just because of ROI reasons (and I think I can get the NP done before the SP). So I will probably start with the router exam so hopefully by the time you pass switch, we can start on route together. You will probably get you NP before me though icon_sad.gif lol.


    How are the studies coming btw..
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  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    notgoing2fail wrote: »
    I like the easy stuff first to build up my self confidence. icon_mrgreen.gificon_mrgreen.gif







    Thank you. I already know that routing is my weakness. Other than reading theories on it, I am not exposed to it on a daily basis enough for it to feel second nature to me.

    Switching feels a bit easier because it's a bit more "flat" if that makes any sense...

    Besides like you said, work from the bottom up, switching fundamentals is extremely important before you decide to look into layer 3.....

    No problem. Learn switching inside and out and your career will go far. Avoid the layer 3 mentality. Many brilliant careers are based on knowing layer 2 and 4 well. The cloud takes care of layer 3.
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  • stuh84stuh84 Member Posts: 503
    Turgon wrote: »
    No problem. Learn switching inside and out and your career will go far. Avoid the layer 3 mentality. Many brilliant careers are based on knowing layer 2 and 4 well. The cloud takes care of layer 3.

    Unless like myself, you are working in the cloud :)

    I guess it depends what you want to do career wise, I work somewhere that is practically an ISP in all but name, and my aim is to eventually be working for a true ISP, so Layer 3 to me is quite important. However, thats not to stress that switching is unimportant, but depending on your career direction, you could end up doing scarcely any switching, and lots of layer 3, or never touching anything at anything above Layer 2.

    Plus, layer 3 tends to be a lot more interesting in my opinion, hence why layer 2 gets a bit of a bad deal sometimes. Being well versed in all is best is what I'm getting at I guess.
    Work In Progress: CCIE R&S Written

    CCIE Progress - Hours reading - 15, hours labbing - 1
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    knwminus wrote: »
    So yea I decided to go for the NP over the SP just because of ROI reasons (and I think I can get the NP done before the SP). So I will probably start with the router exam so hopefully by the time you pass switch, we can start on route together. You will probably get you NP before me though icon_sad.gif lol.


    How are the studies coming btw..


    They are going along very well actually. Pretty smoothly. I'm not sure I would get my CCNP before you. I really only just recently started studying.

    When do you plan on starting? My switch foundation book comes in June. Between this cert guide book and the old BCMSN, I may not really need the foundation book so much....we shall see...

    I've been getting certified about once a month. I got my first cert in April, then another in May. I hope if I can get SWITCH in June, then I'd be on a decent roll.....

    Just need to avoid burn out....

    Turgon wrote: »
    No problem. Learn switching inside and out and your career will go far. Avoid the layer 3 mentality. Many brilliant careers are based on knowing layer 2 and 4 well. The cloud takes care of layer 3.


    I assume you are exposed to real equipment on a daily basis? What are your strong points? Do you prefer switching as well?
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  • Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    notgoing2fail wrote: »
    They are going along very well actually. Pretty smoothly. I'm not sure I would get my CCNP before you. I really only just recently started studying.

    When do you plan on starting? My switch foundation book comes in June. Between this cert guide book and the old BCMSN, I may not really need the foundation book so much....we shall see...

    I've been getting certified about once a month. I got my first cert in April, then another in May. I hope if I can get SWITCH in June, then I'd be on a decent roll.....

    Well I have the routing TCP/IP Vol 1 book already so I will probably pick up the Route authorized Self Study guides/Cert guides in a few weeks (after I knock out LPIC-1 and Security+) and the CCDA guide. Maybe sometime in August but in the mean time I do want to go through the routing guide.
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  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    stuh84 wrote: »
    Unless like myself, you are working in the cloud :)

    Yes that's certainly true for the SP's where enterprise L3 hassles are being increasingly handed off to clouds. MPLS in and leased lines out. But L2 tunneling is a growing requirement there also. I have worked with SP's a lot over the years and they often bemoan the lack of switching exposure as they historically have provide L3 transit as opposed to hosting.

    But in this dynamic world distinctions become blurred quickly. Learn both!
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    Turgon,

    What do you think of this book, have you read it?


    Amazon.com: Cisco LAN Switching Fundamentals (9781587058493): David Barnes, Basir Sakandar:…
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    knwminus wrote: »
    Well I have the routing TCP/IP Vol 1 book already so I will probably pick up the Route authorized Self Study guides/Cert guides in a few weeks (after I knock out LPIC-1 and Security+) and the CCDA guide. Maybe sometime in August but in the mean time I do want to go through the routing guide.


    Ok, well hopefully when you are ready for the CCNP my thread will help. I haven't really been posting anything all that useful yet other than just some chapter thoughts....

    icon_rolleyes.gif
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  • Bl8ckr0uterBl8ckr0uter Inactive Imported Users Posts: 5,031 ■■■■■■■■□□
    notgoing2fail wrote: »
    Ok, well hopefully when you are ready for the CCNP my thread will help. I haven't really been posting anything all that useful yet other than just some chapter thoughts....

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    Mos Def. I am still quite a noob so I will post what I can. Hopefully we will be getting towards route exam around the same time.
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    Quick update:

    As I continue to read chapters in this book, it is pretty clear that this book in no way can be used to pass this exam. The chapters are pretty thin, not much meat or details.

    Just quick over-view of the topics. Again, that is the "point" of this book.

    The foundation books coming out soon are suppose to really fill in the gaps.

    I'm currently reading my BCMSN book to fill in the gaps as I don't have patience right now to wait for the foundation book. Which I pre-ordered.

    I hope to take the exam pretty soon, I'm thinking about 2-3 weeks from now.

    I'm not entirely sure I would recommend the "Officical Study Guide" right now, maybe I will change my tune later, but right now, it seems kind of disappointing... icon_redface.gif


    I'm also looking at other resources such as cisco.com for online docs....
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    Holy cow, some of what I'm reading in BCMSN book is identical to the "Official SWITCH 642-813 Guide".

    HMMM.....
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  • CyanicCyanic Member Posts: 289
    Turgon wrote: »
    No problem. Learn switching inside and out and your career will go far. Avoid the layer 3 mentality. Many brilliant careers are based on knowing layer 2 and 4 well. The cloud takes care of layer 3.


    I am heavy layer 4 at my current position. Most of the time I can tell you if performance problems are network, server or client just by examining layer 4 of a flow. icon_wink.gif
    Cy

    http://www.mashtronauts.com
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  • burbankmarcburbankmarc Member Posts: 460
    Cyanic wrote: »
    I am heavy layer 4 at my current position. Most of the time I can tell you if performance problems are network, server or client just by examining layer 4 of a flow. icon_wink.gif

    I must know how you are doing this. I have messed with a lot of monitoring tools and not been too satisfied with any. They include Solar Winds, Nagios, MRTG, and NTOP.
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  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Ponder the Network (and other things) you might like that link. all the stuff he missed in the switch cert guide he going to post there. :)
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
    Linkin Profile - Blog: http://Devilwah.com
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  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-6566#comment-11912 for the threadon cisco discussing some of the problems with the new track and some responces from ciscopress
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
    Linkin Profile - Blog: http://Devilwah.com
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    Good stuff Devilwah, I'm going to check out those links...
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  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Cyanic wrote: »
    I am heavy layer 4 at my current position. Most of the time I can tell you if performance problems are network, server or client just by examining layer 4 of a flow. icon_wink.gif

    It certaily helps. Layer 4 is most important. I would encourage engineers to study layer 2 and layer 4 very well indeed. Cisco gloss over it far too much IMHO. With so many devices keeping state these days (firewalls are just one example, Load balancers, ACE are others, there are many) understanding layer 4 mechanics is essential. In shared environments connection drops or latency are issues and changes can impact many customers. Often times though the network is only doing its job when the TCP tail drop is happening or packets not being fragmented due to DF or QoS is kicking in. Please check what that server or application hosted on it is actually configured to do and what the contract says should be provided ;)
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  • DevilWAHDevilWAH Member Posts: 2,997 ■■■■■■■■□□
    lol and heres me struggling to get more experince in layer 3 and move away from layer 2. sadly so many jobs seem to assume that if you are not experinced at layer 3 no matter how much layer 2 + 4 you have that you don't know networking. personal i love layer 2. and for pinpointing issues and trouble shooting. layer 4 is outstanding. its lovley when the server guys accuse your network of being slow. and 5 min later you can politly explain that not only is it not you net work. butt it is there server x with the issues and what service on that server causing the sow down. at that point 90% of the works done and because you can tell them exactly what and where the problem is its a quick fix... but do they ever thnk you??? ;)
    • If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    • An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. So when life is dragging you back with difficulties. It means that its going to launch you into something great. So just focus and keep aiming.
    Linkin Profile - Blog: http://Devilwah.com
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  • CyanicCyanic Member Posts: 289
    burbankmarc wrote: »
    I must know how you are doing this. I have messed with a lot of monitoring tools and not been too satisfied with any. They include Solar Winds, Nagios, MRTG, and NTOP.

    For most troubleshooting, my best friend is Wireshark. You can do some amazing things with it. It really depends on what you are troubleshooting as any tool used for the wrong task makes it useless. However, if you can become proficient at packet capture analysis then you can troubleshoot just about anything that flies across the network.


    Sorry for the hijack ng2f. icon_redface.gif
    Cy

    http://www.mashtronauts.com
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  • burbankmarcburbankmarc Member Posts: 460
    Cyanic wrote: »
    For most troubleshooting, my best friend is Wireshark. You can do some amazing things with it. It really depends on what you are troubleshooting as any tool used for the wrong task makes it useless. However, if you can become proficient at packet capture analysis then you can troubleshoot just about anything that flies across the network.


    Sorry for the hijack ng2f. icon_redface.gif

    Yeah I do have SPANs setup around my network connected to machines running wireshark. Handy indeed. Especially when I look at RTP streams.

    Anyways, back to the topic...
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  • TurgonTurgon Banned Posts: 6,308 ■■■■■■■■■□
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    lol and heres me struggling to get more experince in layer 3 and move away from layer 2. sadly so many jobs seem to assume that if you are not experinced at layer 3 no matter how much layer 2 + 4 you have that you don't know networking. personal i love layer 2. and for pinpointing issues and trouble shooting. layer 4 is outstanding. its lovley when the server guys accuse your network of being slow. and 5 min later you can politly explain that not only is it not you net work. butt it is there server x with the issues and what service on that server causing the sow down. at that point 90% of the works done and because you can tell them exactly what and where the problem is its a quick fix... but do they ever thnk you??? ;)

    I think the cert tracks and the the technology push is moving people into layer 3 at the expense of layer 2. The IOS is increasingly feature rich at layer 3. A lot of network design these days is to move from 2 to 3. But you still need to know layer 2 very well to do that properly and to understand the issues. At the same time L2 isn't going away and a lot of the cool stuff needs you to understand it very well if interesting things transpire! As for 4, learn it well for reasons you mentioned!
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    What the heck does this mean?

    An NSF-capable router supports NSF

    An NSF-aware router does not support NSF but understands it and continues forwarding traffic during SSO.


    I am having a hard time seeing the difference, if you are aware of it, and can continue to forward traffic, then what the heck is the difference between being capable?
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  • burbankmarcburbankmarc Member Posts: 460
    notgoing2fail wrote: »
    What the heck does this mean?

    An NSF-capable router supports NSF

    An NSF-aware router does not support NSF but understands it and continues forwarding traffic during SSO.


    I am having a hard time seeing the difference, if you are aware of it, and can continue to forward traffic, then what the heck is the difference between being capable?


    This might help
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    burbankmarc wrote: »
    This might help

    Thanks, although I've read the link. Skimmed through it...

    I have a general understanding of what NSF/SSO does. I am assuming that this feature is completely done and supported on "NSF/SSO" capable routers.

    I'm just not sure what exactly an "NSF aware" router does exactly? What criteria makes a router NSF aware? Why does it continue to forward data? What is the relationship between aware and capable? Is there a protocol between the two?
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  • *BB**BB* Member Posts: 95 ■■□□□□□□□□
    DevilWAH wrote: »
    Ponder the Network (and other things) you might like that link. all the stuff he missed in the switch cert guide he going to post there. :)

    Good stuff. Some of the things hes posting as updates are things we just went over on the security exam.
    Procrastinator extraordinaire
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    Just a quick update. Although I haven't given up on CCNP Switch book by David Hucaby, I've taken a little detour to read this book: CCNP: Complete Study Guide

    Amazon.com: CCNP: Complete Study Guide (642-801, 642-811, 642-821, 642-831) (9780782144215): Wade Edwards, Terry Jack…


    I'm only reading the 642-812 part and it's refreshing to come from a non-Cisco Press book. The information seems to have a little more meat, not TOO much but more to quench my thirst. It's helping me to get a perspective and comparison between this book and the CCNP Switch 642-813 AND the BCMSN books that I have. I'm almost done with it as I've spent
    the last 2 days reading it. I should be finished by the weekend, and then be able to get back on board with the CCNP Switch book.

    The author(s) seem to have a pretty good approach to getting their points across. I have used Sybex once in the past. I might be a fan of Sybex books though moving forward now, we'll see.

    Once I can fill in some gaps from the syllabus I am going to give the new SWITCH exam a shot. Preferably within the next 2 weeks....

    I have pre-ordered the CCNP Switch Foundation book, but it won't be arriving fast enough....
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    Grrr.....DSCP/COS bits hurting my brain!!!


    AF, EF, IP-Precedence, 3 bit here, 6 bits here....blah blah blah!!!
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  • burbankmarcburbankmarc Member Posts: 460
    notgoing2fail wrote: »
    Grrr.....DSCP/COS bits hurting my brain!!!


    AF, EF, IP-Precedence, 3 bit here, 6 bits here....blah blah blah!!!


    what I hate about QoS the most is it seems like all the switches do it a little different. Some switches use queue 4 as the strict priority, others queue 1. some have 4 ingress queues, others just have 2. Some use wrr others use srr. Some only support WTD, others don't at all....it's messy.
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  • notgoing2failnotgoing2fail Member Posts: 1,138
    burbankmarc wrote: »
    what I hate about QoS the most is it seems like all the switches do it a little different. Some switches use queue 4 as the strict priority, others queue 1. some have 4 ingress queues, others just have 2. Some use wrr others use srr. Some only support WTD, others don't at all....it's messy.


    Are you serious? That is sooooo not cool!!!! Sounds like they can't make up their minds.... icon_rolleyes.gif



    But, my book "Cisco LAN Switching Fundamentals" has arrived!


    Let's see what new topics I can learn from it.....starting with... "This is a hub..." icon_redface.gif
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  • NuulNuul Member Posts: 158
    notgoing2fail wrote: »
    Are you serious? That is sooooo not cool!!!! Sounds like they can't make up their minds.... icon_rolleyes.gif

    It's quite annoying. The 3550 and 3560 are this way - one uses wrr the other srr. With the 3560 (IIRC) you can change what queue is the priority queue while it's in the silicon with the 3550. This is the big reason the CCIE training vendors recommend you get at least one 3560 for your lab. The 3550s are just too different on QoS and your exam will use 3560s.
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