Torrents? For/against?

What do you guys think of downloading torrents of software/music/etc. and stuff... Like do you guys support it or are you against it? I'm just bored and would like to see what others think...

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earweed

In the for piracy argument you could just put ferrarri in there and then put steal it after...it's still stealing a product. If you dl a movie and then buy the DVD it's different, but still kind of wrong. It's like sneaking into the car dealership at night for a test drive of the ferrarri, and then buying one in the morning.
If you don't intend to pay for the product then you haven't got the right to just download it.
I'll admit I used to use Napster before the big deal about it was made. Most of what I got was music I already owned on Cassete and I wanted it on my PC or music by artists I'd never heard of before who I eventually got their CD's. I realized after the big deal was being made about it that it was wrong and discontinued using it. Having a really slow dial up meant I didn't get much anyway, but I realize now that what I did back then was wrong.

[Deleted User]

earweed wrote: »

In the for piracy argument you could just put ferrarri in there and then put steal it after...it's still stealing a product. If you dl a movie and then buy the DVD it's different, but still kind of wrong. It's like sneaking into the car dealership at night for a test drive of the ferrarri, and then buying one in the morning.
If you don't intend to pay for the product then you haven't got the right to just download it.
I'll admit I used to use Napster before the big deal about it was made. Most of what I got was music I already owned on Cassete and I wanted it on my PC or music by artists I'd never heard of before who I eventually got their CD's. I realized after the big deal was being made about it that it was wrong and discontinued using it. Having a really slow dial up meant I didn't get much anyway, but I realize now that what I did back then was wrong.

I think the gray area is that no one looks at a movie or song on the internet as something physical. People don't view it as theft if they are not receiving a physical item. I think that is where the disconnect comes in and people don't believe that it is wrong.

rogue2shadow

Prepare for flame war countdown! haha

(*hides*)

tbgree00

xmalachi wrote: »

I think the gray area is that no one looks at a movie or song on the internet as something physical. People don't view it as theft if they are not receiving a physical item. I think that is where the disconnect comes in and people don't believe that it is wrong.

Yeah, the car argument would be a little more accurate if you said you had no intention of buying a car so you went to a dealership with a scanner gun that magically created an identical replica of the car at your house. The dealer still had the original car to sell and you had a copy you didn't pay for that had an invalid but usable VIN. I know it's a fantasy world example but work with me here.

Depending on which form of ethics you subscribe to you can either justify it or say that it's wrong. If you take the personal situation and generalize it to everyone then there is real damage from piracy. If everyone copied a car instead of buying one then people would lose jobs and companies couldn't make money.

I don't think the argument that "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" holds much water. If I desire something enough to search it out and download it then there is some price it is worth to me. Saying you wouldn't buy it at a given price would be a little more correct but there are student discounts and sales on almost every software product if you're patient and willing to spend some time researching it.

I read once that the number one reason that pirates downloaded software was that they came with way too much DRM. The DRM free programs from the recent Humble Bundle promotion had a really high piracy rate even though they catered to the people who said they would buy games if they could back them up and use them on an unlimited number of computers. Just strikes me as odd.

subl1m1nal

I used to be big into pirating back when I was in high school and college.

Now, I'm 100% against pirating. Bit Torrent has its legal uses, but 99% of Bit Torrent is used to pirate peoples stuff.

Think about it, if you get caught pirating software from Adobe, Microsoft, whoever, not only could you be sued, you could have your certifications revoked. Not worth it.

For music and movies, I pay for what I like. There are free ways to enjoy music like Pandora. Movies can be rented inexpensively. I have no reason to pirate. If I made the worlds best song, software, or widget, you can bet I'd be pissed if somebody stole it. That's my livelyhood! Why should I continue making great stuff if you steal it?

Make it legal. For $300, you can register yourself as a Microsoft Partner, and get an action pack, which gives you most MS products to play around with.

tiersten

subl1m1nal wrote: »

Make it legal. For $300, you can register yourself as a Microsoft Partner, and get an action pack, which gives you most MS products to play around with.

Sort of. You've got a real license for the Microsoft products that are in the Action Pack but you're not fulfilling the requirements of MAPS if you're using the software at home.

The Action Pack Solution Provider subscription is designed for businesses whose primary function is to sell, service, and support, or to build, solutions on the Microsoft platform, or to provide solutions based on Microsoft products and technologies to independent, third-party customers.

chrisone

My current torrents are almost done.....

cnfuzzd

The other day, I was at the gas station. I filled up my fountain drink with diet coke. I took a big drink. Saw there was more room. SO I FILLED IT UP AGAIN!

Ima rebel.

Paul Boz

cnfuzzd wrote: »

the other day, i was at the gas station. I filled up my fountain drink with diet coke. I took a big drink. Saw there was more room. So i filled it up again!

Ima rebel.

for shame.

shaqazoolu

I used to use torrents for pirated stuff but I don't any more. Any way you slice it, it's stealing, no matter what your intentions are. I always used to try and defend my music pirating by saying I wouldn't buy the CD anyway so they aren't really losing anything, or I wanted to hear it before I buy it. With pretty much every song on Youtube now, that goes out of the window. Even if it isn't on Youtube, you can still get a decent preview on iTunes and Amazon or whoever else.

I use torrents for legal stuff now, but not very often. If you do actively use it for pirated stuff, you may want to reconsider.

Researchers spy on BitTorrent users in real-time ? The Register

[Deleted User]

I just have to pose this question. If you knew absolutely positively that you wouldn't get caught stealing something would you do it? I think that most people who are pirating believe that they are hidden behind the mask of the internet. Now most of us know better than that but the common user probably believes that there is no possible way they are going to get caught. Does it make it right? Not at all.

Selfmade

xmalachi wrote: »

I just have to pose this question. If you knew absolutely positively that you wouldn't get caught stealing something would you do it? I think that most people who are pirating believe that they are hidden behind the mask of the internet. Now most of us know better than that but the common user probably believes that there is no possible way they are going to get caught. Does it make it right? Not at all.

Yes, I would

because I'd be getting something for nothing

Zartanasaurus

I was for them before I was against them.

Seriously, I am neutral towards them like a lot of things. Torrent technology in itself is neutral. It's what you do with it that makes it bad or good. I quite appreciated being able to download linux distros via torrent very quickly vs trying to download it off of one server somewhere.

earweed

I personally wish I had known the Linux Distros I have had been available via bit torrent. It took forever to get them downloaded.

sidsanders

earweed wrote: »

I personally wish I had known the Linux Distros I have had been available via bit torrent. It took forever to get them downloaded.

centos and bsd have been encouraging rentz as have others. makes it easy (as you already see) unless its for one of the less popular plats (s390).

kinda puts the sw distro onto the end users as opposed to straining your own inet conn as the provider of content.

DAVID Q

timespace wrote: »

What do you guys think of downloading torrents of software/music/etc. and stuff... Like do you guys support it or are you against it? I'm just bored and would like to see what others think...

Well I think you have to look at the bigger picture in the long run. It also depends on a persons current situation. Many people are just living below Poverty

Example. Lets say you need to get Hands on experience using certain types of software and operating systems for test preparation such as (MCSE OR MCSA) or better yet a Tech-support Job or Desktop Job then Im all for it

Especailly if that job is going to provide you with more money in the future Where eventually a individual will be able to stop down loading the software from bit torrents and just go out and buy the software because now you are making $30,000 to $60,000 dollars a year where $100.00 to $1000.00 software is no issue because you have it like that.

So for ethics I say download the software to learn how to use it and then go out and buy like 5 copies and maybe give it to friends and associates alike who maybe struggling financially or were in a current situation you were in years ago. That way if you use that approach you can sleep at night PLUS THE SOFTWARE COMPANY WHO MADE THE SOFTWARE TITLE STILL GETS to HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

Example 2 With music,games and movies it doesn't make sense because a person who makes 7.75 to $10.00 bucks and hour should be able to buy a music CD OR DVD that cost only $10.00 to $15.00 bucks at the store and movies at the most cost $50.00 bucks for certain versions and titles. Also you can download music for .99 cents and movies for like $9.95 from sites like Itunes. To me thats not alot of money. But at the same time if you live in certain parts of the country or lower class neighborhoods and even some American suburbs many people just don't see it that way. so it depends a persons mentality I know certain parts of my city you find many bootleggers of movies and music not just in the hood selling bootlegged movie copies real cheap.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU CAN'T REALLY BLAME THE BOOTLEGGERS BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING IN OTHERWORDS THEIRS A MARKET FOR IT SO UNTIL PEOPLE STOP WANTING SOMETHING FOR NOTHING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE GUYS LIKE THAT IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS OPERATING IN MANY DIFFERENT AMERICAN CITYS.

ME MYSELF I NEVER BUY BOOTLEGS BECAUSE I WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE WORKING AND SUPPORT CERTAIN MUSIC ARTISTS THAT I HAVE RESPECT FOR. I SAY FOR ETHICS IF YOU BUY BOOTLEGS GO OUT AND BUY 5 COPIES AND THEN KEEP ONE COPY FOR YOURSELF. YOU AS INDIVIDUALLY PERSON WILL SLEEP BETTER AT NIGHT.

ALSO I TAKE THIS SAME STANCE ON COMPUTER AND VIDEO GAMES. THEY DON'T COST THAT MUCH MONEY SO BETTER JUST TO PAY THE $25.00 TO $50.00 NEWER TITLES. THATS NOT ALOT OF MONEY.

speaking of music check out www.myspace.com\hisd if you like soulful hiphop

shaqazoolu

The problem with that is it encourages you to be a slacker. It's essentially saying it's okay to steal if I can't afford it in the first place. Why put forth the effort to go and make something of myself when I can just get everything for free and not do anything?

Stealing is stealing no matter how much money you make.

SephStorm

For. I have my own reasons.

L0gicB0mb508

I love torrents. I use them for anything I can possibly download. I don't think you should be downloading copyrighted material though. Do I personally care if you torrent Lady Gaga's newest cd (I'm eyeballing you Dynamik)? No I sure don't.

dynamik

L0gicB0mb508 wrote: »

I love torrents. I use them for anything I can possibly download. I don't think you should be downloading copyrighted material though. Do I personally care if you torrent Lady Gaga's newest cd (I'm eyeballing you Dynamik)? No I sure don't.

I resent that!

I bought a signed copy on eBay for $700!

Chris:/*

If it is freeware or free to distribute I am all for it.

Otherwise you are breaking the law and stealing no matter how you slice it. If you cannot afford the item or software it does not give you the right to steal it because of how accessible it is.

Selfmade

it's not stealing

it's copyright infringement

veritas_libertas

Selfmade wrote: »

it's not stealing

it's copyright infringement

Taking something that you didn't pay for is stealing. If you were the one to copy it and make it available on the web that would be copyright infringement, which is the stealing of an idea. So whether you get it from someone else, or you make it available on the web it is stealing.

Let me also say this before I get burned, the fine for these kind of things should be equal to the theft. I believe these companies are going way overboard by encouraging the courts to fine people thousands of dollars per CD or DVD.

erpadmin

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Taking something that you didn't pay for is stealing. If you were the one to copy it and make it available on the web that would be copyright infringement, which is the stealing of an idea. So whether you get it from someone else, or you make it available on the web it is stealing.

Let me also say this before I get burned, the fine for these kind of things should be equal to the theft. I believe these companies are going way overboard by encouraging the courts to fine people thousands of dollars per CD or DVD.

By your logic, if I record something on the radio, and never buy the single/album from the artist, than that's stealing/theft. If I Tivo something, that's theft.

My definition of theft, is pretty much old school...when you are robbed. When there is a burglary, when a possession of yours is taken from you from force.

Downloading data from the internet without paying for it? I don't morally or ethically think it's right, but I would not call it stealing.

Not saying that I find downloading copywrited material right, or that I condone piracy in anyway. In fact, if you are downloading copywrited material , SELLING IT and get caught by the Feds, you deserve to get the full punishment of the law. But if it's for your own personal use, much like recording your favorite song from the radio....then at the very least buy a license when you are able to.

I know I might sound like I'm talking with both sides of my mouth, but I think passions for either side of the argument are misplaced. You shouldn't be excited because you think you got something for free. While at the same time, you shouldn't stone someone to death because they got something for free.

Pretty soon, all the torrent sites are going to go legit. But there will ALWAYS be an underground market. Has been since I've been in the IT game, back when I was a PC hobbyist in '91. It will never go away.

veritas_libertas

Well for one things Tivos and DVD recorders/VCRs are legal

I was just pointing out what I considered an ill placed argument. Copyright Infringement = Theft. That is all that I was arguing.

erpadmin

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Well for one things Tivos and DVD recorders/VCRs are legal

So are guns, knives and Bittorents.

It's all about use.

VCRs?? What are the heck are those................

[I was so glad to be rid of mine when DVDs came out...I hated VHS even when it was the only thing available. Beta should have won that one....lmao.]

Selfmade

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Well for one things Tivos and DVD recorders/VCRs are legal

I was just pointing out what I considered an ill placed argument. Copyright Infringement = Theft. That is all that I was arguing.

look up the definition of theft, then look up the definition of copyright infrngement

i've seen this argument thousands of times on the Hardforum, which I frequent a lot

people really misunderstand what the legal definitions are when it comes to what you download online

erpadmin

In my last post, I meant if you are SELLING downloaded copywrited material, not downloading for personal use....really, my apologies...lol.

earweed

veritas_libertas wrote: »

LOL

This conversation is really

again....lol

msteinhilber

Do I use torrents from time to time? Sure I do, when I'm let with no other choice for the most part - or if the torrent is simply the faster solution. Sometimes a torrent is the only choice for some file transfers particularly with some games.

Just resorted to a torrent for downloading another copy of BackTrack 4 since I couldn't locate my ISO or DVD. Could have done a direct download but it was incredibly slow compared to the torrent. That's about the extent of my torrent use, I don't have anything against them really but they are not my preferred choice of download if I can avoid it.

Now in terms of illegal usage of torrents, completely against. Honestly, in this present day and age there are enough legitimate sources for me to lawfully provide entertainment in the form of music, television, games, etc that I really don't see much need to pirate anything. For software there are plenty of great open source programs out there for anything my TechNet subscription doesn't include.